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Old 19th August 2011, 08:58   #1
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Default Multiple Confusion syndrome...

Hi!!
I am Dr.Ashwinkumar from Chennai. I am posting this thread here as i am confused where to post this (sedan/hatchback/luxury) just the same like what car i have to choose?!! Looks like i have multiple confusion syndromes now......

I already own a Fiat Linea Emotion Pack Petrol (http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...-birthday.html (Fiat Linea - 2nd Birthday !!!)). It has been my faithful companion for the past 2 years. Off late a mindset has crept into me to get a new car. Although this car has kept me in good stead for the past 2 years there has been constant niggles which has bothered me now and then.

At first it was emotionally draining just because this was the first car i put all my money into despite all odds and negative responses from many i bought a fiat car when they had no name me being the first few people to procure it. Secondly to put up with unefficient and unskilled *** (since car is my passion i take a microscope and look into things) Now i am able to put up with the *** as i know Mr.Mangesh Kodalkar and a host of other people in Fiat India to get things done

Off late the car is giving me small niggles so i have visited the *** 7 times in 4 months though the problems have been very trivial just like Battery relay conk off/ Combinationswitch dead/ A/C cooling coil problem.I have not spent any money on it as Fiat has Given me extended warranty till end of 4 years........


This is where my confusion starts

Confusion No1: To buy a car now or later?

I definitely need to go for car atleast for my tax depreciation purpose in feb-march next year when my current car loan is getting completed. My wife has learnt driving now, i want to get her a car too.........

just thinking is it wise to go for a car now when the interest on loan on cars getting day to day higher or put up and wait for it to settle down in april and then take a call and then buy?

is there any trend? does the car loan likely to come down?

Confusion no 2: To retain the old car and get a small car? or to sell of the biggie and get a small car?

My budget is maximum 7- 7.5 lakhs out of hand + the resale of the old car. i think probably my car would fetch me 4-4.5 lakhs. So in total 12 lakhs.

Now the dilemma starts. if i retain my linea i can afford only 7 lakhs and i can get only a small car and if i sell it i may be able to afford a sedan.

is it worthy to keep the car now for the next 1 1/2 years till the warranty backs out and then sell the car or better dispose it off and get a hassle free new car??......

definitely i might not go in for punto if i retain the linea as i cannot put up with TASS for 2 cars. if i retain this , i might definitely want a hassle free experience for the additional car. of if i sell it i might even think of t-jet or multijet from the same stable as it will be the only car and i can move my coins to get things done........it is just that i can put up with only one hassling experience

Confusion 3: Diesel or Petrol

My mind says diesel my heart says petrol.

Let me put my driving analysis. in the past 6 years i have owned a santro ( which my dad got me) and linea.

when i sold me santro after 3 years of usage it had run 45000 kms.

Since 2 1/4 years of my linea ownership the car has run 35000kms till now.

Thats roughly 1500kms/month average.

though it is not exactly that way. in the first year of linea i had run close to 20 k kms and went for my 15000kms service in 8 months . And there after i have mellowed down and have done only 15k in next 1 year.

The car is mainly for city use 80% and 20% highway use. my trips have been to down south to yercaud and up till Bangalore , probably once every 3-4 months.

My city driving is outside the congested city (from st. Thomas mount to tambaram). not much of a bumper to bumper traffic involved. occasional trips to city and other recreation on Sunday. And yeah i daily use the car for commuting as my family has banned me from taking 2 wheeler out

Taking into account the ever rising petrol charges wouldnt mind getting a diesel small car for 7.5 lakhs or diesel for 12 lakhs

The petrol would be lesser burden on my loan pocket and increase in weekly expenses.

so what is the thing for me petrol or diesel?


Confusion 4: what car?

Only priority is that i would like to go for a top end car with all the bells and whistles if i chose to sell my present car

if i retain the old car then i might have to think of a VFM car... with basic power windows / power steering/ central locking and a/c. i would like to go for a good aftermarket ICE with Bluetooth phone answer which is a must for me


Now is there a medicine for all my confusions?

Guys i am banking on you


geeash
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Old 19th August 2011, 13:10   #2
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Default Re: Multiple Confusion syndrome..........

To take a decision between petrol and diesel is fairly simple -
a) Difference in price between petrol and diesel car: Approx 120000 (Took Verna Fluidic 1.6 as example)
b) Difference in per km cost: Rs.1.5/km (considering price of petrol as 71 and diesel as 46 - bangalore rates, mileage of 17kmpl for diesel and 14kmpl for petrol Verna, in city driving).

Now, for breakeven on investment of 120000 extra on diesel, you need to run 120000/1.5 = 80000 km approx.

So, for your case, you will reach breakeven in about 4.5 years (without considering the interest on investment).
So, to me, it looks like petrol might be a better option for you, esp with highway driving being very limited.

Now, options are Verna, City and Vento. Manza is a very good option (saves you few lakhs!), but it is Tata which you didnt want!
SX4 is a bit bumpy in the back seat, and interiors arent very interesting.

Verna has almost all features, but the back seat is not comfortable. But very powerful engine.

City will feel much more comfortable, but lacks power.
Vento is good, but it looks pretty plain. Not driven this, so cant comment more.. sorry.
All of these fall in the similar price range (maybe 50k difference).

Now, you need to chose between looks, power and comfort. Honda City still is a brilliant package (reliability, comfort, looks and mileage), with their current offers though lacks the fancy features that Verna provides.

Please pardon me if I poured fuel into your confusion fire!

Last edited by samm : 19th August 2011 at 13:14.
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Old 19th August 2011, 13:44   #3
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Default Re: Multiple Confusion syndrome..........

Doc,my suggestions
  1. Since you are a RMP and need to keep your cool to diagnose issues correctly, I'd recommend you say TATA to the Linea .you should be able to give away the Linea for 4.25 or so.
  2. Go for a Japanese car.The Jazz/new Swift/City would be my recommendations.
  3. If you take into account the approx 1 lakh price difference betwwen a diesel and an equivalent petrol of the same make ,and add to that extra by way of insurance,road taxes,your usage does not justify getting a diesel.
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Old 19th August 2011, 14:18   #4
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Default Re: Multiple Confusion syndrome..........

If you keep the Linea, you could go in for the Jazz. When you decide to let the Linea go in the next couple of years, you can keep the Jazz and then look out based on the choices available then. I presume you would be looking for the same tax benefits then too?
I have mentioned the Jazz as the best available option for your requirements IMHO. Feel free to replace it with another name based on your requirements.

If you choose to let the Linea go now, you may have to choose from (not ordered in terms of priority):
- Hyundai Verna
- Ford Fiesta
- Skoda Laura (a bit of a stretch)
- Chevy Optra magnum tdci (recommended)
- Honda City
- VW Vento
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Old 19th August 2011, 14:23   #5
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Default Re: Multiple Confusion syndrome..........

You have 2 more years of extended warranty remaining .Keep this car for sure .Ignoring the niggles,I doubt any other new car would give you the same feel within your budget .

And ,buy a small car ( the new Swift ) ...the top end ZDI should be within your range
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Old 19th August 2011, 14:48   #6
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Default Re: Multiple Confusion syndrome..........

Quote:
Originally Posted by geeash View Post
Hi!!

Confusion no 2: To retain the old car and get a small car? or to sell of the biggie and get a small car?

My budget is maximum 7- 7.5 lakhs out of hand + the resale of the old car. i think probably my car would fetch me 4-4.5 lakhs. So in total 12 lakhs.

geeash
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedsatya View Post
You have 2 more years of extended warranty remaining .Keep this car for sure .Ignoring the niggles,I doubt any other new car would give you the same feel within your budget .

And ,buy a small car ( the new Swift ) ...the top end ZDI should be within your range
I kind of agree with @speedsatya. Most of Linea's depreciation is done, and it may not go down substantially from the current resale price. So, probably keep it, and buy a smaller car - New Swift or Honda Jazz.

I guess interest rate is near the peak, so too much upside is not possible. If you go for loan get floating rate loan (like SBI's), which is base rate linked.
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Old 19th August 2011, 14:48   #7
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Smile Re: Multiple Confusion syndrome..........

Just my two cents to reduce your confusion.

Confusion#1: If your car loan ends sooner then you can sell off the Linea and go for a car which suits both yours and wife's driving skills. As far as the Car loan rates goes, many car manufacturers are these days offering car loans at quite attractive Interest rates.
Confusion#2: If you have two parkings available, you could think of getting a hatch for your wife keeping the Linea for yourselves, but this depends on the confusion#1.
Confusion#3: Looking at your average running, you should opt for a Diesel. So that you can enjoy petrol and diesel rides whenever you wished to.
Confusion#4: Once you have addressed to all the above confusions then we can clear this one too.

For confusion#2 I would suggest to keep the Linea and go for a Diesel hatch preferably i20 or a Ford Figo. I hope you dont end up with confusion#5
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Old 19th August 2011, 15:29   #8
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Default Re: Multiple Confusion syndrome..........

Quote:
Originally Posted by geeash View Post
Confusion No1: To buy a car now or later?

Confusion no 2: To retain the old car and get a small car? or to sell of the biggie and get a small car?

Confusion 3: Diesel or Petrol

Confusion 4: what car?
1. A few days ago, I got a lot of messages from certain car manufacturers who are offering pretty attractive interest rates on their cars. Skoda is one of them. Also there are offers on 'selected' models at Maruti too.

The right time is NOW. You never know what will be the interest rate in March next year as lots of people would make a purchase due to depriciation benefits. Hence, go for it now.

2. Retain the big car and get a small one. Retain the Linea because even if you try selling it right now, the prospective buyer may or may not pay you accordingly. Also, the car will hold its value for the next year or so.

3. When you already have a Petrol sedan, what you should get is a diesel as your current running calls for one. But it depends on which car you are planning to give to your wife or both cars will be driven by everyone in the family (that generally doesn't happen as we tend to set our hearts on one of the available options) If she is ok driving around a diesel, go for it.

4. Ritz, Figo or Fabia diesel. All these cars are perfect for your budget and good diesel options for city as well as highway cruising. Lots of options for enhancements and moderations, so you can fit your favorite after market accessories on them.
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Old 19th August 2011, 16:08   #9
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Default Re: Multiple Confusion syndrome..........

Quote:
Originally Posted by samm View Post
To take a decision between petrol and diesel is fairly simple -
a) Difference in price between petrol and diesel car: Approx 120000 (Took Verna Fluidic 1.6 as example)
b) Difference in per km cost: Rs.1.5/km (considering price of petrol as 71 and diesel as 46 - bangalore rates, mileage of 17kmpl for diesel and 14kmpl for petrol Verna, in city driving).

Now, for breakeven on investment of 120000 extra on diesel, you need to run 120000/1.5 = 80000 km approx.
Is this logic flawed? Assuming Rs 71 and 14kmpl, it would turn out to be Rs. 5.07 per km. 46Rs per liter and 17 kmpl means 2.70 per km. Difference is Rs. 2.37 per km. Not 1.5 as you have mentioned. That will change the calculations drastically - unless i made a mistake .

Last edited by deep_bang : 19th August 2011 at 16:11.
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Old 19th August 2011, 16:14   #10
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Default Re: Multiple Confusion syndrome..........

Quote:
Originally Posted by deep_bang View Post
Is this logic flawed? Assuming Rs 71 and 14kmpl, it would turn out to be Rs. 5.07 per km. 46Rs per liter and 17 kmpl means 2.70 per km. Difference is Rs. 2.37 per km. Not 1.5 as you have mentioned. That will change the calculations drastically - unless i made a mistake .

Thanks for pointing it out. Copy paste error while using excel. You are right, the saving will be 2.37 per km.

Then the calculation becomes 120000/2.37, which comes to approx 51000 km (not 80000km). Then, the diesel makes sense, with a breakeven time period of less than 3 years.

I think many has pointed out that diesel will be a good option.

Last edited by samm : 19th August 2011 at 16:19.
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Old 19th August 2011, 16:35   #11
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Default Re: Multiple Confusion syndrome..........

Quote:
Originally Posted by samm View Post
To take a decision between petrol and diesel is fairly simple -
a) Difference in price between petrol and diesel car: Approx 120000 (Took Verna Fluidic 1.6 as example)
...............
So, to me, it looks like petrol might be a better option for you, esp with highway driving being very limited.
Hi Samm,

Thats a good analysis but there is one important factor that people always forget the mindset factor.

For me a weekend trip to bangalore with my current petrol car costs INR 4K. If it was diesel it would be around 2.5K. Now owing to the 4K cost I might travel once in fortnight.
But if its 2.5K I might travel more than two times in a month.

So the tendency to travel is more in a diesel which you will feel only once you buy it.
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Old 19th August 2011, 17:21   #12
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Default Re: Multiple Confusion syndrome...

Keep the Linea for the next two years. Service costs will remain low, and your driving amount is not very high. Also, even if you sell the Linea, you are not going to get a car far better than it. Also, even if you wait for two more years, you will still get a pretty good deal from it.

As your budget for a hatch is pretty good, you can choose from a very good pool of cars. In my view, a diesel hatch should be a good buy for you.
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Old 19th August 2011, 18:43   #13
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Default Re: Multiple Confusion syndrome..........

Quote:
Originally Posted by xingamazon View Post
Hi Samm,

Thats a good analysis but there is one important factor that people always forget the mindset factor.

For me a weekend trip to bangalore with my current petrol car costs INR 4K. If it was diesel it would be around 2.5K. Now owing to the 4K cost I might travel once in fortnight.
But if its 2.5K I might travel more than two times in a month.

So the tendency to travel is more in a diesel which you will feel only once you buy it.
4K for a single Chennai-Blr trip for just fuel? You must be having a fuel guzzler then? For a car which gives around 17 kmpl (which I guess, is safe to assume?), it shouldnt cost over 3000 bucks for a round trip right?

Yes, agree with you, with a new generation diesel motor, your expense on fuel will be half of this! And will be tempted to double the trips!
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Old 19th August 2011, 20:47   #14
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Default Re: Multiple Confusion syndrome..........

Quote:
Originally Posted by samm View Post

Now, for breakeven on investment of 120000 extra on diesel, you need to run 120000/1.5 = 80000 km approx.

So, for your case, you will reach breakeven in about 4.5 years (without considering the interest on investment).
So, to me, it looks like petrol might be a better option for you, esp with highway driving being very limited.
While break-even just in terms of mileage and fuel cost is one aspect. The re-sale value of a car should also be considered. Diesel cars have a better re-sale value compared to petrol cars. IMO you can get more comparative value for a diesel car over a Petrol car [of say 50k-70k] depending on the model and brand you buy. Your return on investment will be quicker when you decide to sell your car.
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Old 19th August 2011, 21:23   #15
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Default Re: Multiple Confusion syndrome...

Quote:
Originally Posted by geeash View Post

Confusion No1: To buy a car now or later?
This is a great time to buy a car. Most of the car makers and dealers are offering great discounts on their products. As you are already paying 40% of the car cost [considering you will make down-payment of the value you get by selling your old car] you could get a good deal if you can negotiate hard.

Speak to your current banker as you are already banking with them they may offer you good rate considering your credit history.

also read all the articles mentioned @ link: Team-BHP - The Definitive Indian Car Community - On Buying

Fantastic articles. This may help pull you out of all or most of the confusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geeash View Post

Confusion no 2: To retain the old car and get a small car? or to sell of the biggie and get a small car?
This depends on your need. If you feel there is a need for 2 cars then you should have two cars. Keep the old car and buy a small car. If you can manage with one car than go for a bigger car. Looks like your heart is already set on a new car. Keep it going.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geeash View Post

Confusion 3: Diesel or Petrol
With your kind of mileage of 1500km/month I can only see it going up as cities & towns are getting bigger and roads are getting wider. Go for Diesel = low running cost + most cars perform like petrol cars + re-sale value + lesser pinch whenever you come out of a gas station

Quote:
Originally Posted by geeash View Post

Confusion 4: what car?
Go for Vento if you want a car. If I may add to your confusion why not ForceOne the newly launched SUV. Will be in your budget and looks like a nice SUV.

Last edited by NikhilReddy : 19th August 2011 at 21:25.
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