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Old 7th October 2013, 16:24   #61
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Default Re: Best Fun to Drive & Reliable C2 Automatic Sedan

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Originally Posted by rahulsharma2008 View Post
  1. 2014 Honda City (is it worth waiting?)
  2. Vento TSI with DSG (It's damn fun to drive going by the polo gt but reliability is what makes me think a 100 times before making the decision.)
  3. 2014 Ford Fiesta Powershift (The engine is not so fun to drive)
All three are future launches, with Vento possibly about to be launched this week/next few weeks. I feel you should also look at T-Jet. Any reason for not doing so?
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Old 7th October 2013, 16:27   #62
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All three are future launches, with Vento possibly about to be launched this week/next few weeks. I feel you should also look at T-Jet. Any reason for not doing so?
I want an automatic and hence the Tjet is not considered
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Old 8th October 2013, 14:26   #63
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Default Re: Best Fun to Drive & Reliable C2 Automatic Sedan

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Originally Posted by rahulsharma2008 View Post
...For me "fun to drive" and "reliability" are equally important.

Monthly usage: 1500kms
Expected efficiency: 12kmpl in city conditions

Following are my choices:
  1. 2014 Honda City (is it worth waiting?)
  2. Vento TSI with DSG (It's damn fun to drive going by the polo gt but reliability is what makes me think a 100 times before making the decision.)
  3. 2014 Ford Fiesta Powershift (The engine is not so fun to drive)
My heart says Vento TSI but mind says 2014 City. I am totally confused. Fiesta powershift steps in because it handles like a dream and shifts well, gearbox is reliable but engine is mediocre.
The standard Vento AT and City AT should be very reliable, I have no clue about Ford's DSG although it's an acclaimed product, so it should be a safe bet too.

Do you do a lot of your driving in Highway like conditions? I do about 1000-1200 KMS a month in City conditions and get about 9-10 KMPL. The Vento and Fiesta won't fare better on that count.

I would do a GTO (or Frankmehta) and get a used Civic AT and install a CNG kit. That would be the best balance of reliability and fuel efficiency at that price point. Whether you'd be open to that is another question!

If you are opting for either of these cars, please realize that fuel efficiency will be not much to write home about. That said, I'd go for the Honda based off my ownership experience.
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Old 13th April 2014, 23:33   #64
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Default European sedan

For the last five years I have owned and driven an Asian hatchback. My eyes are now set on a European sedan, between the Volkswagen Vento and Fiat Linea. I seek inputs from fellow members on these two brands on following criteria.

Engineering:- traditionally which of these two brands are known to produce better engineered products? Can the India designed and produced Vento be considered to have the same character as German designed VW cars?

Reliability:- probably corollary of point above, in terms of mechanicals and electrical, which brand, VW or Fiat, has better long term reliability, less failure rate over long term use of not less than five years?

Built quality:- generally which of these two brands has better built quality, in terms of robust body shell, safe structure, rattle free, quality of plastic and rubber, etc?

Engine:- which one build better engines? Focus being on petrol engine here, refinement would be top criteria, not raw power. This engine refinement should ideally sustain over long term, with no hind of gruffness even after say 75,000 km.

So in essence this is a head on between VW and Fiat. I have consciously excluded Renault from the fray.

Last edited by Guite : 13th April 2014 at 23:57.
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Old 13th April 2014, 23:53   #65
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Default Re: European sedan

Interesting query. In terms on engineering and quality, it is definite that the Vento wins. About reliability, I didn't have the best experience with the VW staff, and if Fiat continues with T.A.S.S. it's going to be hell for you (they are improving in leaps and bounds though), but news is they're making their own dealerships. Both cars are really reliable. I've never had a breakdown with my car. Touchwood. Quality is a win for Vento. The dash is far more pleasing than the Linea's. Both cars are very safe being European. Now engine is a different story altogether. The Fiat's 1.3 mill is underpowered, but very refined. If you don't mind the car being petrol then you have to go with the Linea. Automatic is a Vento TSI. Diesel is your choice. Take an underpowered car with a very reliable and refined engine, but if you want dynamics and power, albeit with a little loud engine, choose the Vento.(mark my words, loud, not harsh)
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Old 13th April 2014, 23:59   #66
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Default Re: European sedan

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Now engine is a different story altogether. The Fiat's 1.3 mill is underpowered, but very refined. If you don't mind the car being petrol then you have to go with the Linea. Automatic is a Vento TSI. Diesel is your choice. Take an underpowered car with a very reliable and refined engine, but if you want dynamics and power, albeit with a little loud engine, choose the Vento.(mark my words, loud, not harsh)
Thanks for the response. I have edited my original post to clarify that it is petrol engines that are being evaluated here.
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Old 14th April 2014, 02:32   #67
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Default Re: European sedan

If you are looking at petrol versions, then of course you would compare between the 1.2TSI and 1.4 T-Jet and in that war its T-Jet hands down. But for the TSI you are looking at the AT option as opposed to manual offered in the Linea. I think surely VW is a better engineered car, but for the service and the engine, I would give it to Fiat. They may have bad service network; but based on what I have read here and what I have heard for friends owning Fiat, the service is definitely much more customer friendly. Its not the Tata service any more. So surely the T-Jet as per me.
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Old 14th April 2014, 13:36   #68
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Default Re: European sedan

You are choosing between a manual or auto here. If you want a manual,Fiat is the way to go as Vento TSI is only available in Auto. However the Vento TSI has the notorious 7 speed DQ 200 box which has had a bad past, though apparently has been fixed now. The TSI+DSG is a superb combo,i've driven the Polo GT TSI and its a blast to drive on the open road and super convenient in the city. It does return respectable FE if driven with a light foot,however. I'd go with the Vento if you're driving a lot in the city,DSG issues notwithstanding.

The T-Jet is no less impressive and is the best option if you want a manual tranny and don't want to take any chances with DSG. I think service wise both are at par,though Fiat seems to be improving.
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Old 14th April 2014, 13:57   #69
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Default Re: European sedan

If its an automatic you need, with a super impressive DSG box, Vento TSI would be a good all-rounder option.

If you want driving pleasure with a manual box, impressive dynamics and braking, etc, T-Jet should be your choice. Overall, the Vento TSI is not as fun to drive as the T-Jet (barring that superb DSG gearbox). If an enthusiast car is what you are looking for, the Linea is where you should head to, and I'm not saying this because I own a T-Jet. A test drive or two and you would be able to decide if it makes the cut. If automatic is what you wish for, Vento TSI DSG is the best petrol automatic sedan you can buy out there.

On the reliability, the T-Jet is a pretty reliable car and I'm yet to hear of any complaints or issues from this car here. The DSG box has had its share of ugly history, but maybe now they have moved on and got better and better.

On the maintenance front, I could say a Fiat will work out way cheaper than a VW over a long term period, thanks to considerably cheaper spare part prices and a slightly longer warranty period, with more lenient warranty replacements by Fiat dealers. We have a similarly aged Vento (as my T-Jet) in my extended family, and the general servicing cost is way above what I have spent for the Linea over the same period.

Good luck with your decision, you cannot go wrong with either of these 2 cars

Last edited by KarthikK : 14th April 2014 at 14:00.
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Old 14th April 2014, 15:11   #70
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Default Re: European sedan

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Originally Posted by KarthikK View Post
....... the Vento TSI is not as fun to drive as the T-Jet (barring that superb DSG gearbox).........

On the reliability, the T-Jet is a pretty reliable car and I'm yet to hear of any complaints or issues from this car here. The DSG box has had its share of ugly history, but maybe now they have moved on......

....... more lenient warranty replacements by Fiat dealers. We have a similarly aged Vento (as my T-Jet) in my extended family, and the general servicing cost is way above what I have spent for the Linea over the same period.

Good luck with your decision, you cannot go wrong with either of these 2 cars
I disagree with that. The Vento is a blast to drive and probably has better road manners than most C2 cars. With a tyre upgrade to 205/55 or 205/60 will make it one of the best handlers around. The facelift Linea is considerably heavier affecting acceleration.

The Vento is an expensive car to maintain, services usually costing upwards of 5k. About the warranty if you read the manual before a claim and make a strong case for yourself, they will have to replace the part
Best of luck with your choice do inform us about your final choice.
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Old 14th April 2014, 15:18   #71
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Default Re: European sedan

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I disagree with that. The Vento is a blast to drive and probably has better road manners than most C2 cars.
Were you referring to the 1.6 Diesel or 1.2 TSI? If you could make that clear, that would help. All the earlier discussions were with reference to the 1.2 TSI, as the OP is looking for a petrol.
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Old 14th April 2014, 16:18   #72
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Default Re: European sedan

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I disagree with that. The Vento is a blast to drive and probably has better road manners than most C2 cars.
Agreed, Vento is among the better sorted out cars in the C segment category. (Leaving out other cars) I was referring to Vento TSI vs Linea T-Jet, head to head, diesels out of the picture. The steering feedback, braking, handling and suspension setup of the T-Jet are way ahead of the Vento TSI if we are talking from a driving pleasure perspective. Do take a long test drive of the two cars back-to-back, preferably on a highway stretch and let us know what you feel.

Quote:
With a tyre upgrade to 205/55 or 205/60 will make it one of the best handlers around.
From an enthusiast's perspective, the T-Jet's stiffer suspension setup has a better sorted handling and ride quality combo than the TSI, in addition to being shod with 205/55R16 wheels from the factory. Switching to wider tyres alone may not be sufficient to make the Vento a corner carver.

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The facelift Linea is considerably heavier affecting acceleration.
Yeah, the Linea definitely needed some diet control on the weight section. However, at 11.1 seconds from zero to a ton, we can't exactly call the T-Jet a slouch (although I definitely agree the MultiJet version is a snail in comparison, at 15.8+ secs! ). The Vento TSI also puts out similar 0-100 figures as the T-Jet, thanks to the amazing DSG box. Either way, acceleration may not be a strong differentiating factor between these two turbo-petrol sedans.

Like I said before, both are very nice cars; But if you want an out and out enthusiast machine in stock form and with a manual tranny, T-Jet is the way to go, more so if you frequent highways and/or twisties. If you want an automatic petrol which can be the best of both worlds (convenience of AT, yet fun-to-drive), TSI owns that sector right now.

Last edited by KarthikK : 14th April 2014 at 16:33.
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Old 14th April 2014, 16:58   #73
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Default Re: European sedan

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Originally Posted by KarthikK View Post
But if you want an out and out enthusiast machine in stock form and with a manual tranny, T-Jet is the way to go, more so if you frequent highways and/or twisties. If you want an automatic petrol which can be the best of both worlds (convenience of AT, yet fun-to-drive), TSI owns that sector right now.
Agree with you. Having driven the T-Jet on couple of occasions, the most impressive part of driving this Turbo petrol is the well weighted steering wheel. Adds so much confidence and aides in the handling department.

Then comes the all 4 discs brakes part - Just a light pressure with your toe on the B Pedal and you know the brakes are doing their job brilliantly.

The weight of the car, the stiffer suspension again instill so much confidence during cornering (with a well mannered steering helping again) as well as taking over roads beyond 3 digit speeds which has a lot of uneven and undulated surface. The T-Jet just holds on to your intended course of imaginary line that you have plotted ahead of you!

The Power of the T-Jet is adequate in stock form itself with loads of torque coming in at lower RPMs making in city driving, U-Turns, Gully maneuvers a cake walk too.
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Old 14th April 2014, 22:36   #74
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Default Re: European sedan

Thanks everyone for the detailed responses.

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Originally Posted by ampere View Post
If you are looking at petrol versions, then of course you would compare between the 1.2TSI and 1.4 T-Jet and in that war its T-Jet hands down. So surely the T-Jet as per me.
Indeed I am comparing the TSI with TJet.

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Originally Posted by shashank.nk View Post
You are choosing between a manual or auto here. I'd go with the Vento if you're driving a lot in the city, DSG issues notwithstanding.
Manual or auto transmission wasn't a consideration initially but the convenience of an auto and the effortlessness of the TSI has impressed me very much.

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Originally Posted by KarthikK View Post
If an enthusiast car is what you are looking for, the Linea is where you should head to.

We have a similarly aged Vento (as my T-Jet) in my extended family, and the general servicing cost is way above what I have spent for the Linea over the same period.
I am not exactly looking for an enthusiasts car but my need made me gravitate towards these two cars. On service cost the VW dealer's sales manager told me that each service will cost about 12 to 13k whereas the Fiat sales rep told me it will be about 6k for the Linea. Is this true?

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Originally Posted by thebfg View Post
The Vento is an expensive car to maintain, services usually costing upwards of 5k.
Please see my response above, the sales manager himself gave me a ballpark figure of approx. Rs.1/km as service cost. So the Vento does seem a more expensive car to maintain.

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The Power of the T-Jet is adequate in stock form itself with loads of torque coming in at lower RPMs making in city driving, U-Turns, Gully maneuvers a cake walk too.
While on a test drive of the Linea today, the sales guy said he will show me something. So we start off slowly and he told me to let go the clutch while on third gear. I thought it would stall and did not do so immediately. He insisted so I released the clutch. Rpm settled to 1000 and the car just kept on moving at constant speed of 20kmph. Next he told me to shift up, so at 4th gear it maintained same rpm and speed increased slightly. Shifted to 5th gear and it pottered on its own at about 25kmph. Not once did it stall. It was a deserted road, no hurry, no worry. It was a nice test of the car's torque.

I am still sitting on the fence. The TSI plus DSG impresses me so much that I am thinking should I forgo the sedan upgrade and continue being a hatchback guy and go for the Polo TSI. But then everyone is upgrading to a sedan, or at least a compact sedan. On the other hand, the Linea gives me that very comfortable and protected feel whenever I sit inside it. The fact that it is not as quiet as the Vento (mechanical + aerodynamic) is the only point holding me back from putting my money down immediately on the Linea. I just might make a compromise.
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Old 14th April 2014, 23:03   #75
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Manual or auto transmission wasn't a consideration initially but the convenience of an auto and the effortlessness of the TSI has impressed me very much.
I am not exactly looking for an enthusiasts car but my need made me gravitate towards these two cars. On service cost the VW dealer's sales manager told me that each service will cost about 12 to 13k whereas the Fiat sales rep told me it will be about 6k for the Linea. Is this true?
The SA is right. VW's aren't cheap to own. My Polo diesel first service costed me around 10k,so I wouldn't be surprised with a 12-13k bill for the Vento as it has a turbo-charged engine too. Linea i'm guessing is much cheaper and Fiat,from what i've read on here is very warranty friendly. Parts are replaced with no questions or finger-pointing.

Quote:
I am still sitting on the fence. The TSI plus DSG impresses me so much that I am thinking should I forgo the sedan upgrade and continue being a hatchback guy and go for the Polo TSI. But then everyone is upgrading to a sedan, or at least a compact sedan. On the other hand, the Linea gives me that very comfortable and protected feel whenever I sit inside it. The fact that it is not as quiet as the Vento (mechanical + aerodynamic) is the only point holding me back from putting my money down immediately on the Linea. I just might make a compromise.
The Polo TSI is simply brilliant within the city. I get to drive my friends car a lot these days and the auto-box takes half the strain out of constant shifting we do in city traffic. I drive like a saint most of the times and the MID shows 10-11 kmpl most of the times,sometimes goes upto 12 too. I almost hate it when I get back into my Swift for the drive back home as i've to shift gears! Where it loses out is on the back-seat where the space is truly awful. It can't seat 4 people in comfort if most are above 5' 9 or 5'10. So if back-seat space is important get the Vento or Linea. If its the only car at home,then definitely get a sedan only.
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