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Old 9th September 2015, 18:49   #16
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Default re: Automatics under 10 Lakh OTR - A Comprehensive Guide (now with the Baleno & Ertiga)

Good thread Rajeevraj. Very nicely put together. I think ATs are still alien ufos to most of the common and mass market customers even though they are there for almost a decade. Remember the Santro AT? The problem is that the manufacturers never emphasize on their AT variants apart from Celerio AMT and GT TSI which kind of made Indians familiar with the existence of ATs actually. But still many people stay away from ATs mostly because of reliability and repair cost. These are mostly unknown territory to them. ATs are not available in cheaper variants either. I think there is still some way to go for ATs to become mass market here. But thanks to your thread many readers outside of this community can find interest in them.

Last edited by Carpainter : 9th September 2015 at 18:51.
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Old 9th September 2015, 20:19   #17
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Default Re: Automatics under 10 Lakh OTR- A Comprehensive guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post
[center]Polo GT TSI


Other inputs/feedback
  • Arguably the most popular automatic in this forum and outside also.
  • In spite of its constraints, DSG worries and price, a hugely popular car. VW themselves have been surprised by the response to this car.
  • The car responsible for bringing some respectability to the AT segment in India.
  • Only car to get Cruise Control.
  • The car that converted a lot of enthusiasts and non enthusiasts (including myself) to believers in AT.
  • The only Turbo Petrol car this side of 10L.
  • As the ownership threads show, one of the most mod friendly cars around. Every owners seems to have a new experience to share. As indicated by the ownership reports.
  • Constraints of the Polo by itself (Poor back seat space, DSG Reliability concerns, VW's iffy After Sales) has caused several potential buyers to look away-In spite of the heart wanting the car.
  • Faces competition from the Aspire AT and the upcoming Punto Evo Abarth (Manual)
I would not include the Polo TSI on this list, in many states it does cost more than 10L. I paid 10.5 for mine in February.

Also I believe the latest update (which includes the cruise control) costs even more.
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Old 9th September 2015, 20:28   #18
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Default re: Automatics under 10 Lakh OTR - A Comprehensive Guide (now with the Baleno & Ertiga)

Really nice thread and pretty informative. You have put in a lot of effort for compiling this thread sir, thanks!

My 2 cents:
I have driven the Zest XTA AMT and the Celerio AMT and there is a vast difference in both the AMT boxes, how they behave.
When I test drove the celerio, it had around 19k kms on the clock and:
1) When I started the car and put it in drive mode to move forward, the car was vibrating like anything. It was feeling like when we release the clutch a bit too much without giving accelerator input and the car is about to stall when the rpms drops too much. Pretty annoying.
2) The shifts were pretty slow and there is a pause in between. You can't drive it enthusiastically.

However, when I test drove the Zest XTA AMT it had a totally different behaviour:
1) When you start the car and slot in D and give the accelerator input, it behaves normally. No rpm drops, it's all butter smooth.
2) Shifts are pretty fast and almost like a normal conventional automatic. I was not even realising the shifts happening and the Sport mode made it even better!

Maybe these differences were due to a petrol engine in the Celerio and a diesel 90ps in the latter, but still I think the tuning of the Zest's AMT is much superior than the Celerio's. Also, price difference is pretty much between the two, but I don't think that is the reason here.

Thanks.
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Old 9th September 2015, 20:48   #19
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Default re: Automatics under 10 Lakh OTR - A Comprehensive Guide (now with the Baleno & Ertiga)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoInt View Post
Thank you Rajeev for excellent compilation of automatics under 10 lakh OTR. Appreciate the effort in compiling the features, ownership report, feedback observations from owner / official review .

This has come at the right time where booking for automatic transmission is on the rise and the worsening traffic situation in cities.

Would it be correct to say, from performance perspective, the order of automatic transmission type will be DSG / DCT -> CVT -> AMT -> Torque Converter?
Allow me to answer as someone who owns an automatic (my thread was mentioned as reference for the Brio AT ) and who has driven almost all the automatics out there-

I am going to answer your question based on the transmissions mentioned in the chart-

DSG / DCT -> TC (5 Gear) >TC (4 speed) > CVT (7 speed of Jazz) > CVT ( in Micra) = AMT


Points to note:

1) I noticed a difference in the CVTs of Micra and Jazz. Hence the difference in rating.

2) I also gave the rating based on the assumption that 'WHAT IF' all the transmissions were mated to an engine of same size and output. In real world scenario a 1.6L engine with CVT will mostly perform better than a 1.2L engine with 5 speed TC.

3) Also as an owner of the Brio I have noticed that while in D3, with a heavy foot on the accelerator the car, despite having a pretty standard 1.2L naturally aspirated engine, jumps forward VERY impressively for it's size. Infact even the TBHP review mentioned that in lower RPMs the Automatic seems more eager than the manual in moving forward aided by the push provided by the Torque Convertor.
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Old 9th September 2015, 21:03   #20
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Default re: Automatics under 10 Lakh OTR - A Comprehensive Guide (now with the Baleno & Ertiga)

Nice and informative thread. Interesting to see how market is changing. We had Honda City AT and Santro AT a few years back (around 6-7 yrs) in less than 10 L price range.

Now we have multitude of cars with AT. How about Nissan Sunny AT ? It was launched quite some time back (when compared with Nano and Micra). Also Ciaz name can be added here. (will be useful for other readers to have this info here)

I had been thinking of making an excel on similar lines with AT vehicles upto 15 L.

Your effort in making this is commendable.

Last edited by tanwaramit : 9th September 2015 at 21:10.
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Old 9th September 2015, 21:49   #21
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Default Re: Automatics under 10 Lakh OTR- A Comprehensive guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post
Overall I think 6 Speed TC based gearboxes will be better performers than AMT and CVT boxes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollingwheels26 View Post
I am going to answer your question based on the transmissions mentioned in the chart-

DSG / DCT -> TC (5 Gear) >TC (4 speed) > CVT (7 speed of Jazz) > CVT ( in Micra) = AMT
Thank you Rajeevraj and Roolingwheels26 for providing clarification and confirmation. I was thinking that TC would be the last from the performance perspective and the evolution of automatics started from AMT/TC then CVT and finally DSG / DCT. It is nice hear the experience from horses mouth and in this case owners of Vento TSI DSG and Brio AT TC.

I have test driven Vento TDI DSG, Rapid TDI DSG and EcoSport Petrol DCT. I will be doing test drive of Ford Aspire and Jazz CVT. I am not looking to change my car in near term, but my next one will be automatic transmission and hence the question / clarification.

Last edited by ampere : 4th November 2015 at 10:33. Reason: Jazz DCT -> Jazz CVT
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Old 9th September 2015, 21:59   #22
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Default re: Automatics under 10 Lakh OTR - A Comprehensive Guide (now with the Baleno & Ertiga)

Very informative thread.
I just wanted to make a little correction here. The claimed mileage for the Polo GT TSI is 17.21 kmpl. 16.47 kmpl mentioned here is for the 1.2 petrol without the turbo. As for an enthusiast, the polo GT TSI makes all the sense if you are looking for a car under 10L .

I have a Honda city CVT VX with paddle shifters and i thought it was a fun car. But after test driving the polo i was just blown away with the performance. However i believe both these cars are the best buy under 10L. The City CVT SV is priced at 9.9L Ex-Showroom though and certainly gets a lil more than 10L on road.
Attached Thumbnails
Automatics under 10 Lakh OTR - A Comprehensive Guide (now with the Baleno & Ertiga)-koko.jpg  


Last edited by nishchal316 : 9th September 2015 at 22:15. Reason: Forgot to mention a point
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Old 9th September 2015, 22:42   #23
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Default re: Automatics under 10 Lakh OTR - A Comprehensive Guide (now with the Baleno & Ertiga)

Hey Rajeevraj, thank you very much for the exceptionally well crafted compilation. This is testimony to Team BHPs quality, and additionally, an ultimate reference for all those looking for comparisons between sub 10 lakh ATs.

While we have just finalised the Celerio Zxi AGS for my FIL, this reference was very useful to compare the other options we considered - all in one place.
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Old 9th September 2015, 23:37   #24
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Default re: Automatics under 10 Lakh OTR - A Comprehensive Guide (now with the Baleno & Ertiga)

Thanks Rajeevraj for the nicely compiled informative post.

I am in market for a AT. AT being my first check in a car and then safety. Even the fuel comes after that. I did look into most of the ATs which fulfilled my first 2 criteria with a budget of under 10 lakhs. I rightnow find myself torn between Ford's Figo Aspire AT and Tata's Zest ZTA. Aspire in Blue and Zest in Red.

I have driven ATs always, so want an AT. Zest's rolling back in inclines is the only thing I am worried of. But the the package which is offered in Zest is unparalleled in the cars of this segment. Be it build or seats or space (except the cubby holes). Aspire seems to be around with the featured its offering.

Zest XTA @ 9.4 (with discounts) and Aspire AT @ 9.5 (no discounts) in Hyderabad. Which will be a better buy? I will drive more if I buy a Diesel, thats something I know.
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Old 10th September 2015, 00:39   #25
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Default Re: Automatics under 10 Lakh OTR- A Comprehensive guide

Wonderful Thread!!!
Ciaz A/T (on-road price in Delhi is below 10 Lac) is missing and so is Mahindra e2o from the list.
Slightly confused by this line about GT TSI.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post
[*]The only Turbo Petrol car this side of 10L. [/list]
Did you mean Turbo Petrol "A/T" as we have Bolt and Zest Petrol with Turbo.


P.S. : If you increase the Budget by just 2 Lac, we can get

1. Verna
2. Rapid
3. Vento
4. EcoSport
5. Ciaz (if not considered as below 10 Lac)
6. Scala
7. City

which I think would add immense value to the thread.

Last edited by carwatcher : 10th September 2015 at 01:04.
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Old 10th September 2015, 07:36   #26
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Default Re: Automatics under 10 Lakh OTR- A Comprehensive guide

Excellent thread
I could relate to most of the stuff written here as a new owner of GT TSI. I did similar research with 10L budget before zeroing in on GT. There is no denying that car manufacturers are partly responsible for late entry of AT in the <10L car market. They never helped general car buying public to change certain perceptions towards AT cars by not marketing it aggressively. But the trend is definitely changing and people are looking for more convenient way to commute in this insane city traffic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VellVector View Post
I would not include the Polo TSI on this list, in many states it does cost more than 10L. I paid 10.5 for mine in February.

Also I believe the latest update (which includes the cruise control) costs even more.
I took the updated Polo TSI last Friday and it costs me 10.43L OTR. As it's just above the 10L I believe it certainly a worthy contender for the list of cars being discussed in this thread.
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Old 10th September 2015, 09:49   #27
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Default Re: Automatics under 10 Lakh OTR- A Comprehensive guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by VellVector View Post
I would not include the Polo TSI on this list, in many states it does cost more than 10L. I paid 10.5 for mine in February.

Also I believe the latest update (which includes the cruise control) costs even more.
The Polo is a borderline case. It will fall under 10L in most places. It is above 10L in several states, but not by much and will definitely be under consideration for folks looking for a hatch or compact sedan. Hence included. Same goes for the Zest XTA also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nishchal316 View Post
Very informative thread.
I just wanted to make a little correction here. The claimed mileage for the Polo GT TSI is 17.21 kmpl. 16.47 kmpl mentioned here is for the 1.2 petrol without the turbo. As for an enthusiast, the polo GT TSI makes all the sense if you are looking for a car under 10L .
Thanks for pointing it out. You are correct. Will update the numbers along with some other edits pointed out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tanwaramit View Post
Now we have multitude of cars with AT. How about Nissan Sunny AT ? It was launched quite some time back (when compared with Nano and Micra). Also Ciaz name can be added here. (will be useful for other readers to have this info here)

I had been thinking of making an excel on similar lines with AT vehicles upto 15 L.

Your effort in making this is commendable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by carwatcher View Post
Wonderful Thread!!!
Ciaz A/T (on-road price in Delhi is below 10 Lac) is missing and so is Mahindra e2o from the list.
Slightly confused by this line about GT TSI.

Did you mean Turbo Petrol "A/T" as we have Bolt and Zest Petrol with Turbo.


P.S. : If you increase the Budget by just 2 Lac, we can get

1. Verna
2. Rapid
3. Vento
4. EcoSport
5. Ciaz (if not considered as below 10 Lac)
6. Scala
7. City

which I think would add immense value to the thread.
Thanks for pointing out the E2O. That was a huge miss from my side. Will update and include that.

I meant the Turbo petrol AT's. Will edit to make it clear.

Yes, after seeing the inputs, would make sense to expand this to 15LOTR. Will work on doing that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WheelD View Post
Thanks Rajeevraj for the nicely compiled informative post.
I have driven ATs always, so want an AT. Zest's rolling back in inclines is the only thing I am worried of. But the the package which is offered in Zest is unparalleled in the cars of this segment. Be it build or seats or space (except the cubby holes). Aspire seems to be around with the featured its offering.

Zest XTA @ 9.4 (with discounts) and Aspire AT @ 9.5 (no discounts) in Hyderabad. Which will be a better buy? I will drive more if I buy a Diesel, thats something I know.
Touch choice. Very different cars, One is petrol the other is diesel, one is an AMT and other is a DCT. From an AT experience the Aspire would be a better choice since the DCT will be superior to the AMT in the Zest. Zest gets some nice features but overall both cars are well loaded.

I guess it boils down to your usage and your TD experience. Would suggest long TD's of both and see what works better for you.
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Old 10th September 2015, 10:40   #28
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Default re: Automatics under 10 Lakh OTR - A Comprehensive Guide (now with the Baleno & Ertiga)

I think this thread can focus on two segments: AT cars Up to 8 lakh OTR and 8-13 lakh OTR. That will draw a clear line between the two price brackets people will be shopping in without statewise discrimination

Surprising to see FIAT not having an AT car despite the popularity of AMT as Magneti Marellie, which supplies AMT boxes to Maruti and Tata, is owned by Fiat!

Maybe I am getting it wrong. Fiat maybe planning to utilize their factory floor to produce AMT boxes and multijet engines instead of cars, which are not selling in significant numbers anyway. Nowithstanding the AMT box shortage, they will (again) make a clean profit as a component supplier. Talk about operational strategy
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Old 10th September 2015, 11:39   #29
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Default re: Automatics under 10 Lakh OTR - A Comprehensive Guide (now with the Baleno & Ertiga)

Looks like all variants of TUV 300 with an AMT option will be below 10 lacs and thus in this list.
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Old 10th September 2015, 11:45   #30
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Default re: Automatics under 10 Lakh OTR - A Comprehensive Guide (now with the Baleno & Ertiga)

Not sure whether this has been pointed out but the Nissan Micra X-shift actually comes with 4 Airbags and is the only car in this line up to have more than 2 airbags.
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