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Old 13th September 2015, 21:29   #1
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Default Automatics between 10-17 Lakh OTR - A Comprehensive Guide

This is a follow up to my earlier thread on Automatics under 10L OTR

Why 17L OTR and not 15L OTR.
  • Initial plan was 15L OTR. But there were 2 cars (or SUV's) Creta and Scorpio whose Ex-Showroom were below 15L. Now, in some many states, this would still translate into an OTR of between 15-16L. For some states (especially Karnataka) and Ex-Showroom of even 13.5 translates into 17L+ OTR. Did not make sense to leave just these 2 new launches and kind of segment definers (Automatic Diesel SUV's) out of the list. Hence the extension to 17L OTR.


  • Note 1: Only the Creta and the Scorpio will go above 15L OTR even in the most expensive states. Rest of them will still fall under 15L
  • Note 2: Beyond this you have the D Segment Sedans and SUV's- Corolla, Jetta, Cruze, Elantra and Octavia. The basic summary chart for the AT's till ~30L can be found in post 5

Without further delay, below is the summary list.

Automatics between 10-17 Lakh OTR - A Comprehensive Guide-atcomparosummary15_newlakhs.jpg

Key Observations
  • As you can see, there are quite a large number of options. The total number of variants (23) is almost equal to the <10L segment (24).

  • We have 9 manufacturers offering AT's in this segment.

  • Unlike the <10L Segment, most cars here are powered by reasonably powerful motors.

  • Skoda, VW and Hyundai have both Petrol and Diesel variants. Mahindra has only Diesel.

  • The Fiat Linea is the only C2 Segment Sedan with no AT variant (Ford Fiesta does not have an AT but has been discontinued).

  • The top 2 C2 Segment sedans- Honda City and Maruti Ciaz do not have diesel AT's.

  • The major manufacturers missing are Toyota, Fiat, Tata and General Motors (Chevrolet).

  • Toyota and GM continue to miss out in this segment also.

  • Good news is that every one of the options comes with Airbags and ABS. Only the Sunny is a small exception in that it comes only with one airbag.

  • Several Diesel AT options. A big change from a 1-1.5 years back when diesel automatics were almost non existent.

  • The Ciaz and the newly launched TUV300 are the cheapest options. Both these will actually come around 10L OTR in several places. Looks to be good value for money offerings.

  • Skoda, which does not have a car in the under 10L segment has the Rapid with 5 variants (2 petrol and 3 diesel). This is excluding the Black Editions.

  • The Ecosport has maximum safety features by virtue of its 6 airbags. The Verna is the only other option with 6 airbags (in the Diesel).

  • The Scorpio AWD is the only proper SUV, but is the most expensive also.

  • The Honda City VX CVT is the most expensive Petrol AT. More expensive than several Diesel AT options.

  • Unlike the <10 L segment, there is only one AMT (TUV300) which is also close to the 10L OTR mark. An indication that manufacturers believe that customers in this segment would prefer smoother AT's.

  • Ciaz and Verna come with older generation 4 speed AT's used in their models in the <10L Range.

  • The Rapid Petrol AT comes with a 1.6 NA Petrol and 6 Speed TC AT Box. Considering that the Rapid and Vento are essentially the same car, the perception is that the Rapid also uses the 1.2 TSI and DSG that
    comes in the Vento. This is not true. The engines and gearboxes are same only for the Diesel variants.

Last edited by Rajeevraj : 18th September 2015 at 14:49.
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Old 15th September 2015, 22:34   #2
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Default re: Automatics between 10-17 Lakh OTR - A Comprehensive Guide

Next, a look at the feature list. Some items that were not clear from the brochure has been left blank.


Automatics between 10-17 Lakh OTR - A Comprehensive Guide-csegment_atfeature1.jpg

Automatics between 10-17 Lakh OTR - A Comprehensive Guide-csegment_atfeature2.jpg



Looking at this feature list, one observation really stands out. There are very few features unique to the C Segment. Most of the features have trickled down to the Compact Sedan and Premium Hatch segments and even lower. So why does one need to get into this segment for an Automatic Transmission car?

An AT buyer in the <10 Lakh segment is more often than not, looking for a City specific car and/or a 2nd car. But in this segment, more often than not, it is expected to be the primary car. With this in mind, what are the key differentiaters that would attract buyers to this segment.
  • Lot's of Space: Front, Rear, Boot. Most cars here are more spacious than the hatch and compact sedan counterparts. Most have a much larger boot also.

  • Better build quality and small and significant elements like colors, chrome, wood, leather. Although the some of the premium hatches match the quality of the sedans, the feel good factor of a sedan is always there. Indian buyers have a soft spot towards cars with a boot.

  • Better engines: Most engines used here are relatively powerful and come with good power and torque numbers. Important if the car is expected to be a highway cruiser

  • Advanced transmissions: Unfortunately only partially true. Several cars here use the same transmissions used in the <10 Lakh Segment. Typically this factor rules out some of these cars from any shortlist.


  • Several Diesel AT options. Under 10 L the Zest was the only AT that you could buy. >10 L there are a large number of choices. 18 months back the Verna was the only diesel AT one could buy.



Features unique to the segment-Unfortunately not many.
  • Scorpio is the only real AT SUV you can buy. Only AWD option. Only option with things like Micro Hybrid and Tyretronics. On the down side, sits right on top of the price chart and loses out on many other aspects.

  • Apart from Scorpio you have SUV like vehicles like the TUV300, Ecosport and Creta. Creta again sits high up in the price list.

  • If you are very keen on a sun roof, the City VX is the only choice. But again quite expensive compared to the other Petrol AT options.

  • AT and AVN systems don't seem to go together, you will need to buy a Creta or Scorpio to get an AVN system


Last edited by Rajeevraj : 18th September 2015 at 14:49.
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Old 16th September 2015, 19:10   #3
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Default re: Automatics between 10-17 Lakh OTR - A Comprehensive Guide

A deep dive into the various options with relevant links and observations


Maruti Ciaz

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Automatics between 10-17 Lakh OTR - A Comprehensive Guide-ciaz-atlever.jpg



Team-Bhp Official Review
  • No official review for the Automatic


Ownership Reviews

Other observations/Feedback
  • The cheapest full sized AT Sedan. Retails at 10L OTR in many places. Makes it good value for money and a good alternative to those considering the AT hatches and compact sedans.
  • Not many ownership/TD reports. General feedback is that it does its job well. Those expecting a scorching performance will be disappointed.
  • The smallest engine coupled with the older generation 4 speed AT box makes it a leisurely performer. Especially on the highway.
  • A good option to consider on a fixed 10L budget.

What would be good to see
  • Maruti is doing a great job with the AMT's, but they need to bring in more modern 5+ speed AT boxes to these higher segments. Been flogging the current 4 speed one way to long.
  • Bring in a Diesel AT. There were some rumors that Maruti would plonk the 1.6 320 DDIS into the Ciaz. Pair that with a competent AT (May be wishful thinking)




Mahindra TUV300


Automatics between 10-17 Lakh OTR - A Comprehensive Guide-tuv300_gallerywallpapers_02.jpg

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Team-Bhp Official Review
  • Just launched. Official review to be updated when it becomes available.

Ownership Reviews

Other observations/Feedback
  • Has created quite a buzz. The cheapest AT SUV. Top version available ~11L OTR in lot of places.
  • The first and cheapest 7 seater AT SUV
  • That gearbox lever is unlike anything seen before. A/M at one position. Looks like a paddle shift on the stick.
  • Reasonably well loaded feature set.
  • Need to await official and ownership TD reports and reviews to see if Mahindra have a winner on their hands.

What would be good to see
  • To early to call out





Renault Scala/Nissan Sunny

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Team-Bhp Official Review


Ownership Reviews
  • None available


Other observations/Feedback
  • Two cars that are struggling to make any impact even in the manual versions
  • The official review thread does not go beyond 2-3 pages for the Automatic. Indication of the lack of interest in these AT Cars.
  • No real USP for the Scala/Sunny Automatic. The usage of the same CVT as used in the Micra does not help matters.
  • Official review as well as other comments indicate prominent rubber band effect.
  • Although well loaded (Scala), not exactly cheap. Buyers will easily turn towards the City/Ciaz/Vento/Rapid.
  • Sunny is the the only car that comes with just the 1 driver airbag.
  • All in all, very difficult to point out a good reason to buy the Sunny or Scala CVT.


What would be good to see
  • The Sunny/Scala CVT's in current form is not going to sell or survive. Maybe a diesel AT can help to some extent.
  • What Renault need to do is bring in the Duster AT as soon as possible. There have been rumors around it, So it is definitely coming. And as per reports it is expected with an Efficient Dual Clutch (EDC) gear box. That should give the Creta some strong competition.


Ford Ecosport

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Automatics between 10-17 Lakh OTR - A Comprehensive Guide-ecosportgear.jpg


Team-Bhp Official Review

Ownership Reviews

Other observations/Feedback
  • Even 2+ years after launch continues to be a very attractive proposition.
  • The only Petrol AT with 6 Airbags.
  • Probably the most 'bang for you buck' AT. Among the cheapest in the list. Well loaded with features, looks good and comes with a Dual Clutch Gearbox.
  • Fords reluctance to supply enough AT variants made several people look away (Including myself). Seems to be addressed now. the AT is available almost off the shelf.
  • The 1.5 NA engine while a decent unit is not the best performer, unable to make the best of the quick shifting DCT box.
  • There is a renewed interest in the Ecosport AT after the Creta launch. Seen as a much more VFM option compared to the Creta. Several folks who were waiting for the Creta have switched to the Ecosport after seeing the Creta Price.



What would be good to see
  • The Ecoboost paired to the DCT. The current DCT in the ford is let down to some extent by the 1.5NA engine. The Ecoboost would be perfect. This combination exists in several other markets. In addition, the Ecosport needs a differenciation with the Aspire and the potential Figo AT.



Skoda Rapid

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Petrol AT Gear (TC)

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Diesel AT Gear(DSG)

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Team-Bhp Official Review

Ownership Reviews


Other observations/Feedback
  • For a long time the only diesel AT was the Verna (and the Scorpio on and off). The Verna was expensive and used the older 4 speed AT box which did not do justice to the engine and the price tag.
  • The Rapid (and Vento) DSG changed this. Suddenly we had a good performing Diesel car mated to an advanced dual clutch transmission.
  • The most fuel efficient automatics in this whole list.
  • Although there is only one detailed ownership report, several ownership posts in the official thread. Most folks very happy with the purchase.
  • The best choice (along with the Vento DSG) for those looking for a fuel efficient Automatic. Owners reporting between 13-15km/l in City and 19-21 km/l on the highways.
  • The DSG reliability worries still stand, especially since the Diesel DSG max torque is 250nM which is the max supported by the DQ200 DSG Box.
  • With the Vento face lift launch adding a few features, prospective buyers leaning towards the Vento over the Rapid.




Volkswagen Vento

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Petrol and Diesel Gear (DSG)

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Team-Bhp Official Review
  • No dedicated Petrol or Diesel DSG review. The Diesel DSG covered is same as the Rapid, hence the Rapid review above holds.
  • The Polo GT TSI Official Review can be referred to for the Petrol TSI AT.

Ownership Reviews


Other observations/Feedback
  • The popular choice in the diesel AT segment. The 2015 face lift makes it more desirable.
  • The best performing Petrol AT. Unlike the Rapid, the Vento Petrol AT uses the 1.2 TSI and the DSG gearbox.
  • DSG Worries and iffy VW after sales has caused several folks to look elsewhere in spite of loving the TSI+DSG combination.
  • Like the Polo GT TSI, potential for mods is huge.
  • Since both the petrol and diesel Vento use the DSG, there is a confusion on which one to go for. A thread with this discussion. Which Vento TDI or TSI discussion (Which VW Vento DSG - TDI or TSI?)

What would be good to see (Vento and Rapid)
  • Some sort of a clear cut guarantee from VAG indicating that the DSG issues have been taken care off. What we have now are vague assurances.
  • A blanket 5 or 10 year warranty on the DSG would also go a long way in reassuring prospective customers.
  • The 1.2 TSI + DSG on the Petrol Rapid.

Last edited by Rajeevraj : 18th September 2015 at 14:55.
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Old 16th September 2015, 19:44   #4
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Default re: Automatics between 10-17 Lakh OTR - A Comprehensive Guide

Honda City

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Team-Bhp Official Review


Ownership Reviews


Other observations/Feedback
  • By pure numbers, the most popular AT in this segment.
  • Like the Ecosport, a good overall package. Design, Features, engine, transmission- No real deal breaker. But not an outright performer like the Vento TSI.
  • Facing competition from the Ciaz AT now. The Ciaz is much cheaper and offers pretty much everything the City does.
  • Overall perception of niggles and lower build quality as compared to the previous gen City have had influence on potential customers.
  • The only AT with Paddle Shifts (only in VX Variant).
  • SV variant misses out on a lot of features and VX is priced very high. Points that put potential owners in a dilemma.

What would be good to see.
  • A Diesel AT. Honda took a long time to bring a diesel into the City. Should not repeat the same mistake with a Diesel AT.



Hyundai Verna 4S

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Team-Bhp Official Review


Ownership Reviews


Other observations/Feedback
  • One of the oldest AT Sedans around. The diesel Verna AT was the only AT below 15 L till as recent as mid last year (When the Zest Launched).
  • Overall the Verna has been on a downward trend even with the 2015 Verna 4S launch. In a distant 3rd place behind the City and Ciaz with the Vento not far behind.
  • From a AT perspective, Hyundai's reluctance to equip the Verna with a 6 speed AT is costing it dear. The diesel AT is the most expensive sedan on the list and no one wants to spend 15 L on a car and then get a 4 speed AT.
  • On the plus side, it is the only diesel AT with 6 airbags. Note: The petrol AT comes in a lower variant and hence does not get 6 airbags.
  • The Petrol AT also does not have many takers. There are too many other options available now.


What would be good to see
  • Just one thing. Get the 6 Speed TC AT (or something more modern) into the Verna. VW and Skoda have shown that there is no problem reusing a higher spec AT across the range. The VW 7 speed DSG is used right from the Polo to the Vento to the Superb.


Hyundai Creta

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Team-Bhp Official Review

Ownership Reviews


Other observations/Feedback
  • The latest blockbuster from Hyundai. We get the first Diesel SUV AT under 20L.
  • Was quickly followed by the Scorpio and TUV300 AT's. And the Duster AT is also expected. Thanks to the Creta, we suddenly have a bunch of Diesel SUV AT options.
  • That fact that Hyundai equipped it with a 6 Speed AT was much appreciated.
  • Pricing was a shock to many. The Diesel AT retails at ~17L+ OTR Bangalore. Only the AWD Scorpio is more expensive. Resulted in lot of customers going back to look at the Ecosport AT.
  • Lack of AT in the top end SX(O) was a disappointment to many. Due to this the Diesel AT misses out on 6 Airbags and Hill Assist.
  • Lack of a Petrol AT was also a disappointment.
  • In spite of the high price, the only option for those not comfortable with Mahindra. Hyundai seems to know that and is taking full advantage.

What would be good to see.
  • A Petrol AT. Unlike the Diesel, the Petrol AT can be priced reasonably.
  • The Diesel AT in the top variant.



Mahindra Scorpio

Automatics between 10-17 Lakh OTR - A Comprehensive Guide-scorpio.jpg

Automatics between 10-17 Lakh OTR - A Comprehensive Guide-scorpiogear.jpg


Team-Bhp Official Review
  • Official Review not available yet.


Ownership Reviews

Other observations/Feedback
  • Launched hot on the heels of the Creta. The high pricing of the Creta has made many prospective buyers look at the Scorpio.
  • The only proper SUV in the list. Comes in 4WD AT also.
  • Will need to wait and watch on how the reception to the Scorpio is.

Last edited by GTO : 21st November 2015 at 11:55. Reason: Jetta & Passat use 6-speed DSG. Replacing with Superb which uses the 7-speed DSG.
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Old 17th September 2015, 17:53   #5
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Default re: Automatics between 10-17 Lakh OTR - A Comprehensive Guide

To Summarize.
  • A lot of options for buyers in this price range.
  • Almost all of them proper AT's (Some are out dated of course), no AMT business.
  • Every one of them has safety features. Which means you cannot buy an AT without ABS and Airbags at the very least. A sign that the manufacturers are recognizing the maturing mentality of buyers in this space.
  • Several Diesel Sedans and SUV's. Will only help increase the AT penetration further.
  • If at least some of the 'Would be good to see items' called out above happen, that would be a real benefit for customers.
  • Have said it before. Saying it again. Toyota- Where are you. 0 to 17L, no Toyota AT that can be bought?


Other Helpful Links


Postscript:
  • For those reaching the Creta and Scorpio Territory and wondering (like I did) what all lies beyond (D Segment and SUV's), here is the summary covering all other AT's till ~30L.
  • Note: Just the summary, not getting into details


Automatics between 10-17 Lakh OTR - A Comprehensive Guide-atcomparosummary_30l.jpg


Thank you for reading. Hope that this compilation will help prospective buyers decide on the car that best suits their needs.

Last edited by Rajeevraj : 18th September 2015 at 15:01.
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Old 19th September 2015, 12:38   #6
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Default Re: Automatics between 10-17 Lakh OTR - A Comprehensive Guide

Thread moved out from the Assembly Line (The "Assembly Line" Forum section). Thanks for sharing!
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Old 20th September 2015, 13:20   #7
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Default Re: Automatics between 10-17 Lakh OTR - A Comprehensive Guide

Mighty thanks Rajeev, that's one heck of a detailed compilation. Definitely sorts major worries out mate. I'm itching to lay hands on one of the DSG equipped cars but the reliability and iffy VW A.S.S keeps me away. Wondering when will Toyota jump in the fray!

Cheers!

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Old 20th September 2015, 15:58   #8
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Default Re: Automatics between 10-17 Lakh OTR - A Comprehensive Guide

A real informative thread for those looking for automatics. Thanks.

May I just add one other owner review thread link for the Ecosport AT.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...rs-review.html (Ford EcoSport 1.5P AT : Owner's Review)
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Old 21st September 2015, 10:01   #9
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Default Re: Automatics between 10-17 Lakh OTR - A Comprehensive Guide

Superb effort Rajeev. All required information in a single thread!

Call it wishful thinking, but what I would like to see is an S Cross automatic - that should be a good package with Maruti brand as backup
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Old 21st September 2015, 10:53   #10
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Default Re: Automatics between 10-17 Lakh OTR - A Comprehensive Guide

Excellent information, thanks for sharing. Have not realized that Scorpio AT was this costly. They might be setting themselves for failure at that price point. Would love to see Ciaz with 1.6DDIS motor and a more advanced gear box. Old 4 speed AT or AMT will not cut it any longer especially with all the new models being launched.

Rated the thread much deserved 5 stars. These 2 threads will serve as a bible to anyone in the market for AT.
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Old 21st September 2015, 17:26   #11
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Default Re: Automatics between 10-17 Lakh OTR - A Comprehensive Guide

Thanks and very interesting. But I get a feeling that this space of 10-15 lacs for AT is a question of compromise and there is no clear winner. If only Ciaz had 5 speed AT it would have taken lot of sales I believe. Honda is very pricey with CVT not very helpful. VW and Skoda are slightly pricey but have DSG which unfortunately still have issues. Hyundai also only 4 gears and pricey. So overall, which offers the least compromise?? I am not sure...
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Old 22nd September 2015, 10:42   #12
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Default Re: Automatics between 10-17 Lakh OTR - A Comprehensive Guide

^^ Creta with its 6 Speed AT ?
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Old 22nd September 2015, 11:48   #13
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Default Re: Automatics between 10-17 Lakh OTR - A Comprehensive Guide

Super thread. I'm now hoping and looking forward to another A/T thread relating to the 18 - 30 lakh price range.
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Old 22nd September 2015, 13:01   #14
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Default Re: Automatics between 10-17 Lakh OTR - A Comprehensive Guide

Very informative thread. It was a disappointment that nobody has yet tried the Scorpio AT. Looking forward to the review/road test of the Scoprio AT 4x4. I am looking to pick one up real soon.
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Old 22nd September 2015, 16:06   #15
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Default Re: Automatics between 10-17 Lakh OTR - A Comprehensive Guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilful View Post
A real informative thread for those looking for automatics. Thanks.

May I just add one other owner review thread link for the Ecosport AT.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...rs-review.html (Ford EcoSport 1.5P AT : Owner's Review)
Thank you. Thanks for adding the link. I had remembered seeing more than one ownership report, but was unable to find it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaluJ View Post
Superb effort Rajeev. All required information in a single thread!

Call it wishful thinking, but what I would like to see is an S Cross automatic - that should be a good package with Maruti brand as backup
Thanks. Yes, it is surprising that S Cross did not come with an AT option. I think Maruti may be confused on which AT box to use, they cannot put a 4 speed AT in what is their premium car. The Baleno premium hatch is expected with an AT. So I don't expect an AT in the S Cross anytime soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by getsriram View Post
Thanks and very interesting. But I get a feeling that this space of 10-15 lacs for AT is a question of compromise and there is no clear winner. If only Ciaz had 5 speed AT it would have taken lot of sales I believe. Honda is very pricey with CVT not very helpful. VW and Skoda are slightly pricey but have DSG which unfortunately still have issues. Hyundai also only 4 gears and pricey. So overall, which offers the least compromise?? I am not sure...
Yes, that is a fair statement. But I guess there is no perfect car. Every car has some compromises. The good thing is that there are different choices depending on what people want to prioritize. For me personally, AT performance was the key requirement. So the Vento TSI was a no brainer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BUXX View Post
^^ Creta with its 6 Speed AT ?
Creta AT is quite overpriced for what it offers. But good in several other aspects. Again a matter of what is important.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axe77 View Post
Super thread. I'm now hoping and looking forward to another A/T thread relating to the 18 - 30 lakh price range.
I have a summary my last post. Interestingly, that segment seems to be the most unexciting (apart from 2-3 cars) from an AT point of view. Most of the Cars and all the SUV's have big engines and numbers,but use pretty regular AT boxes.Especially true for the SUV's.
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