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Old 17th May 2017, 17:25   #16
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Default Re: SUV to premium sedan for touring purposes : A pipe dream?

I would rate Toyota Camry as the top used choice. There are not many lower priced sedans which offer better comfort. 2015 models should come somewhere around 20 lakhs, but they won't be very easy to find. Easier to find and for much cheaper would be Skoda Superb.

You may also look at a new soft roader like Hyundai Tucson, but it would most likely be significantly more than 20 lakhs.
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Old 17th May 2017, 17:45   #17
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Default Re: SUV to premium sedan for touring purposes : A pipe dream?

Quote:
Originally Posted by androdev View Post
First you need to be convinced that a sedan offers you and your passengers equal or more comfort than an SUV. Because you can also get SUVs that tick most of your requirements once you get into premium segment. You don't have to opt for a sedan to enjoy the things you listed.
It would be lovely if there was an SUV in my budget that could give me what I need. What options do you have in mind?


Quote:
Originally Posted by rdst_1 View Post
I think your budget is a limiting factor. Within 18-20L you won't find a Sedan from any of the Premium European makers which comfortably seats 4 unless it is quite old.
You don't like the Hexa or Innova, but they actually fill the bill perfectly in your case.
If AT wasn't a strict requirement, I would have recommended taking a look at S-Cross 1.6.
A V40 CC from Volvo, pre-owned, is also worth a look, if available in the market.
You could of course take a look at the offerings from VW/Skoda, but they are known to be weak in the reliability/A.S.S area.
Reliability is something I cannot compromise on simply because we are generally 2 of us in the car at really remote places and a car which brings us home is of paramount importance.

The AT is something which I hold quite close to my heart simply because I've observed that I m at ease whenever I drive an AT and can also drive it in the city if and when I feel like. If not for that, I would have picked up the Storme V-400 Vx 4WD with my eyes closed.

Someone else also suggested the V-40 CC and I will hunt for it.

I cannot stand the MUV looks of the Crysta and/or the Hexa. Had the Hexa been available with 4WD and an AT I could have still given it a thought but it doesnt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prakhar1998 View Post
Get a slightly used Camry Hybrid. It'll be supremely comfortable not just for driving but also for 4 passengers. Reliability would be high, and considering it's a Hybrid, fuel economy is fairly decent too. It also has an automatic CVT gearbox, and ground clearance is decent being above average for its class.
As long as it is reasonably fuel efficient, I dont mind a petrol car over a diesel. I am not a Toyota fan but the Camry is indeed a comfortable barge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Santoshbhat View Post
For point nos. 7 to 9 you are better off looking at crossovers X1, Q3, X3, Q5 etc.
Point no. 10 - Broken roads isn't really their forte. The ride is designed for smoother roads, so that they handle and grip exceptionally thanks to stiff suspensions. BMWs in particular with their RFTs can be quite harsh on broken roads. Tubeless tires will improve matters but they won't glide over bad roads like say a Duster. You do get fantastic body control though and occupants will feel fresh even after spending long hours in the car.

Point no. 11. - You need to be extra attentive and scan the road surface carefully. Missing to spot a big speed breaker or pot hole can be disastrous and leave you stranded. I have myself seen an Audi A6 driver missing to see a medium sized speed breaker on the highway and fluid started leaking after he went over it at speed.

My Skoda Laura used to cost about 12 to 15k to maintain per year per 15000 kms. For premium Germans budget about twice this amount and that's a conservative estimate unless you are willing to service them outside the official service centers.

A well maintained Jetta or Octavia Diesel is a very good option if you are coming from big 4x4s. They will give you 80% the premium German with less than half the fuss .
The mentioned premium crossovers will most likely be over my budget, dont you think?

12-15k per 15k km is still acceptable as long as the vehicle is reliable and can take some amount of bad road use. Point 11 becomes important since one cannot be overly cautious on a long distance trip (say, 1k km non stop one way) all the time, at least I cant.

The Jetta seems to be highly rated/trusted car amongst a lot of us here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_skyliner View Post
You can look at 2 years old BMW X1/F30. Haven't faced any issues with GC of F30 in last three years and I have driven it on some real bad roads.



Again, F30/X1 makes lot of sense if you are looking at ATs now. DSG is almost equally good but check the VW/Skoda dealership reputation in your city before taking the plunge. Here in Pune, VW's dealer is fantastic in terms of service and reliability.



Almost all of the D segment sedans will deliver better FE numbers.

However, please keep in mind that you won't be able to drive any of the sedan as carefree as your earlier SUVs. That being said, with most of our highways been improved over the last few years, a practical sedan like X1 will face almost no issues if one takes decent care while tackling bad roads.

Your co-passengers will definitely like riding in a sedan over SUVs.

Good luck!

One of the biggest reasons of thinking of a sedan was the FE. I dont see a lot of sense in spending money on fuel and toll and driving at 80 to maximise FE on a long distance trip. One loses out on the enjoyment factor big time. At 120kmph, anything above 12kmpl is kinda comforting.

I too feel that a premium sedan is more comfortable to sit and drive while being able to cover greater distances at an efficient cost while feeling safe and luxurious at the same time.
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Old 17th May 2017, 19:26   #18
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Default Re: SUV to premium sedan for touring purposes : A pipe dream?

@n.devdath 18-20L is a decent budget but you have a fairly long list of mutually exclusive requirements

Red pill: Reliability, great FE, low cost of ownership, heavy usage
Blue pill: Fun to drive, great ride, occasional use

If you fancy the blue pill, look for single-owner low milage cars with complete service history in a single dealership of models that are known to be reliable. Petrols are easier to find. If your budget is 20L, buy a 15L car and set aside 5L for future expenses. Here is a sample:
https://www.carwale.com/used/cars-in...rk=4&isP=false
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Old 17th May 2017, 20:50   #19
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Default Re: SUV to premium sedan for touring purposes : A pipe dream?

Quote:
Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post

The Jetta seems to be highly rated/trusted car amongst a lot of us here.
The Jetta is indeed the best compromise between luxury, build, reliability and acceptable running costs IMHO. Even when I don't monitor what the dimwits at the service centre are adding to the bill (which easily inflates the bill by 2K), the total amount comes to around 15.1K tops.

I will be listing down all the requirements that the Jetta can tick for you as an owner:

Quote:
My current budget for a vehicle is between 18-20 lac INR (new/pre owned). In this budget, there are great sedans that are available at Bangalore.
Checked. You can easily find examples which have done less than 15 to 20K km for this kind of money or even lower if you are lucky.

Quote:
I guess I m done driving manuals now. I don't drive a lot in the city, yet I've begun to prefer the peace of mind and lower maintenance a slush box gives me. Needless to say, I'm smitten by the ZF and DSG trannies.
Checked. Nothing can match the 6 speed DSG gearbox and the way it shifts, although mine is a humble manual. The wet clutch 6-DSG is more reliable in the longer run as well.

Quote:
I love fuel economy (call me cheap/poor/chindi...whatever). While speeds on our highways seldom exceed 120kmph for any considerable amount of distance, SUVs top out at around 11kmpl at those speeds. The bigger SUVs drop below 10. This is something I dont like.
The worst figure that I saw on my Jetta's MID was 10.1 Km/l. That too when the engine had just heated up. My dad did a Kumbhalgarh-Vadodara in the Jetta and the FE on the highway was an impressive 20.1 Km/l even when driving around the 120 to 130 mark.

Quote:
Ground clearance is something I take seriously since most of my usage is for long distance travel all over India. Is, say, 155mm sufficient? I've never driven a sedan long enough on a bad road to have an answer to this question.
In 2 years of ownership, the car has only bottomed out once and that too because of an unusual protrusion (A stone or a ground pipe). The sump guard took the complete hit and nothing happened to the car. On rural speed breakers its only the mudflats that bottom out when the car is fully loaded.

Quote:
Handling/visibility/road presence/gizmos (not safety features but gizmos)etc. These are not really important to me (maybe because I haven't owned a good sedan long enough) at this stage.
Handling is one thing I will surely guarantee. The multi-link suspension gives you the ride and handling of an A4 for half the price. (I can see Jetta owners nodding their heads in unison )

Go for the later highline variants(2015 and upwards) and you will find well kitted cars.

Quote:
Space. This is very important to me. Not 7 seats per se, all I need are 4, but I need 4 really spacious seats on all counts. And I need a vehicle that allows 1 person to curl up on the middle/rear row reasonably comfortably as and when required.
The Jetta will seat four easily and legroom will also be more than adequate thanks to the sheer length. (4600+ mm)

Quote:
Durability/Longevity. This is essential to me because it gives me a feel good factor on a daily basis.
12 years of anti perforation warranty is offered on the Jetta so that shouldn't leave you worrying IMO.

Quote:
Upkeep costs. Im used to spending around 10-12 k for every 10k km for service and related spares and would not mind the same kind of expense.
As I said, keep an eye on the service bill and you won't overshoot the 13K at all.

Quote:
A few "must have" things (Dunno if they are possible, but still) not in any specific order:

1. AT.
2. Cruise control.
3. Good air conditioning.
4. Disc brakes all around.
5. ABS and at least 2 airbags.
6. Good, tested structural rigidity.
7. Ample ground clearance.
8. 4WD- Aaargh..do I need it?
9. Good visibility.
10. Great ride quality over broken roads.
11. Some ability to take abuse like a missed speedbreaker or a pothole once in a while.
1. Check

2. Check

3. Check

4. Check

5. Double check. 6 airbags to boast about along with all electronic wizardry and acronyms you can think off. (ESP, EDL et all)

6. Checked. 5 star Euro NCAP rating to start off with.

7. Can't promise AMPLE ground clearance, but it should be enough for most roads.

8. Nope. Sorry.

9. Checked.

10. Checked.

11. Once in a while is fine, but don't expect it to be a Tata Safari.

Prospective examples:

http://classifieds.team-bhp.com/buy-...en/Jetta.html/

All the best with the car buying. Sorry for the lengthy post. Just wanted to portray my experience as a VW owner. Hope this helps you.

Regards,
vishy

Last edited by vishy76 : 17th May 2017 at 20:51.
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Old 17th May 2017, 22:46   #20
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Default Re: SUV to premium sedan for touring purposes : A pipe dream?

155mm of ground clearance in a long-ish wheelbase D-Segment sedan, can be managed. I am not saying it is impossible, you can go around India in a low slung D-segment sedan. I've even driven to the top of hills navigating around slippery rocks, dirt, grass and plants with thorns that may scratch the paint in my Kizashi (no easy feat) BUT as someone who loves sedans himself specifically for their low center of gravity and brilliant handling characteristics, I would still say that they can be painful to baby over bad roads from time to time. Now considering you have always owned SUVs, I'd guess you would find it even more of a hassle in the long run. Not to mention the times when you go over something you may not have seen in the rain by mistake, and you cry to yourself thinking how it could have been avoided if you weren't driving a big sedan That's the worst feeling trust me. These sedans at the end of the day are not designed for our roads.

You will definitely incur more maintenance in terms of small suspension linkages like tie-rod ends etc. no matter what.

Either way, if you are charmed by the build, equipment and handling characteristics of cars with lower center of gravity than mammoth body on frame SUVs, then I'd suggest either sticking to the Volvo brand which is generally more reliable than the germans in my experience, or go for something like an X1 which isn't really that bad and doesn't deserve the bashing most pure-blooded enthusiasts throw at it.

At the end of the day, I love the dynamic qualities of a sedan over an SUV when the roads are empty and well laid out, and thus they can never be replaced for me, but I usually tell people coming from SUV ownership to sedans, that if you have to ask, then you probably shouldn't. At the end of the day, you should drive and be confident enough to decide.

Last edited by Aditya : 18th May 2017 at 08:00. Reason: Language
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Old 17th May 2017, 23:23   #21
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Default Re: SUV to premium sedan for touring purposes : A pipe dream?

So many recommendations for Jetta, but not really for Octavia. Wonder why? Understand the diesels in Octavia do not get the multi-link suspension, but the ride is still very good.
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Old 18th May 2017, 00:11   #22
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Default Re: SUV to premium sedan for touring purposes : A pipe dream?

Quote:
Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post

1. AT.
2. Cruise control.
3. Good air conditioning.
4. Disc brakes all around.
5. ABS and at least 2 airbags.
6. Good, tested structural rigidity.
7. Ample ground clearance.
8. 4WD- Aaargh..do I need it?
9. Good visibility.
10. Great ride quality over broken roads.
11. Some ability to take abuse like a missed speedbreaker or a pothole once in a while.

Given the above quandary that I am in, I would have loved to go for a new Storme V-400 with my eyes closed had it been available in the AT 4WD guise but it isn't and wont be.

I don't like the way the Hexa and the Innova look (MPV/Van) and I dont like the XUV's ride and interiors. The Scorpio's AT is just not worth it.

So, are there any options or am I asking for too much?
You have already mentioned, still could not help but pointing out that Tata Hexa fulfills your requirement to the T!!! If you are not very particular about those premium interiors and the badge value and can compromise between AT or 4wd, Hexa AT or 4wd sounds to fit your list very well.

I feel you are asking for too much, and I am surprised there is something which absolutely fulfills 90.9% of your wishlist :-).

Last edited by arighna.dutta : 18th May 2017 at 00:13. Reason: correction.
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Old 18th May 2017, 06:44   #23
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Default Re: SUV to premium sedan for touring purposes : A pipe dream?

Quote:
Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
Na, the Altis just doesnt cut it when it comes to a lot of other points too.
I know you have ruled Altis out but wanted to understand your reasoning behind the same. When I read your opening post, Altis VL is the one which came to mind. With regards to your points, except 8 I thought it covered all the points. So you could stretch and buy a new one instead of pre-owned one.
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Old 18th May 2017, 10:05   #24
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Default Re: SUV to premium sedan for touring purposes : A pipe dream?

Quote:
Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
So you wouldn't recommend the Octavia diesel would you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sups View Post
So many recommendations for Jetta, but not really for Octavia. Wonder why?
3 reasons why I think the Jetta is superior:

1. More solid build.

2. Multi-link rear suspension.

3. Not allowed in Skoda's service centers. The farther you are from them, the better .

@ n.devdath: If space is very important to you and there's no hurry to buy the car, wait for the current gen Superb to hit the used market. The diesel Superb is arguably more reliable than its notorious petrol sibling. You'll get a full-size proper European car at a VFM price.
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Old 18th May 2017, 10:06   #25
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Default Re: SUV to premium sedan for touring purposes : A pipe dream?

With your requirements there's plenty on offer both new and pre worshipped.

Skoda Octavia/VW Jetta-
-
Solid German Build
- Comfortably sits 4+1
- Diesel (Economical and loads of Torque)
- Premium feel
- Fun to Drive
- Multilink Suspension

Chevrolet Cruze
- Practical and Frugal
- Space
- Fun to Drive
- Power horse

Skoda Laura(Pre worshipped)
- Build Quality
- Practical
- Power House

Other Options-
Nissan X Trail
S- Cross 1.6
Chevrolet Optra (Pre worshipped)

Last edited by GTO : 19th May 2017 at 12:37. Reason: Typos
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Old 18th May 2017, 10:06   #26
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Default Re: SUV to premium sedan for touring purposes : A pipe dream?

devdath

Your requirements are almost like mine, and me too will buy the V-400 yesterday, if Tata offered it with an AT.

And here is what "what goes round, comes round" sounds like !!!

--- Why don't you buy the Hexa, it meets every one of your 11 requirements, except that #1 & #8 is a toggle with Hexa. ---

(you had suggested the Hexa to me a month or so back, hence the above comment...haha)

But seriously, I too am looking for a solid strong touring vehicle that easy to maintain, spacious, airy, doesn't need mollycoddling and is powerful. Mileage >10 kmpl is ok.
But, apart from the Hexa XTA & Innova ZAT, there are no options <30L.
But again, both look like vans, Hexa much much lesser than Innova though.

T-Fort is nice, but I find it bit too flashy for my liking.

I am following this thread closely
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Old 18th May 2017, 11:38   #27
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Default Re: SUV to premium sedan for touring purposes : A pipe dream?

Just an outside thought , what about Creta Diesel Auto . The ride quality is good diesel Auto is ok , not frugal as Jetta . You might miss on some of the safety features on auto trim because its not top end .
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Old 19th May 2017, 13:00   #28
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Default Re: SUV to premium sedan for touring purposes : A pipe dream?

Why no one has mentioned the Elantra AT ?? I did a TD last week an loved it. The top end model is just under Rs. 20 lacs and caters to all of the OP's requirements.
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Old 19th May 2017, 14:08   #29
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Default Re: SUV to premium sedan for touring purposes : A pipe dream?

Quote:
Originally Posted by androdev View Post
Red pill: Reliability, great FE, low cost of ownership, heavy usage
Blue pill: Fun to drive, great ride, occasional use
What if I fancy the red pill but want to include FTD and a great ride while compromising to a certain extent on the cost of ownership? What products would you suggest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vishy76 View Post
Sorry for the lengthy post. Just wanted to portray my experience as a VW owner. Hope this helps you.
Not at all Vishy, it is detailed posts like this which would help me come to a decision. I feel it is owners like you who have had a great experience and share it who have made the Jetta the respectable car it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
At the end of the day, I love the dynamic qualities of a sedan over an SUV when the roads are empty and well laid out, and thus they can never be replaced for me, but I usually tell people coming from SUV ownership to sedans, that if you have to ask, then you probably shouldn't. At the end of the day, you should drive and be confident enough to decide.
Well, there isn't much I can do but compromise somewhere. I do not see a lot of sense in driving, say an AT SUV all the time which gives me ~8-10kmpl over terrain which could have been managed in a sedan giving me 18-20kmpl. If I were to splurge like that, I'd rather splurge it elsewhere. Sedans also allow higher average speeds, greater safety (in my budget) and a certain level of cabin luxury compared to SUVs, again in my budget.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sups View Post
So many recommendations for Jetta, but not really for Octavia. Wonder why?
GTO has replied to this and this seems to be the general market sentiment as well. For some reason, the VW DSG is better/seems to be better in terms of reliability than the Skoda DSG, which is again, surprising.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arighna.dutta View Post
I feel you are asking for too much, and I am surprised there is something which absolutely fulfills 90.9% of your wishlist :-).
Maybe I am, but I am clear about what I need.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
@ n.devdath: If space is very important to you and there's no hurry to buy the car, wait for the current gen Superb to hit the used market.
Space is definitely important Rushabh, and I will look into this option now. I've always liked the Superb as well but with the current model touching 35 lac OTR Bangalore, will the new one be cheaper?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazy View Post
(you had suggested the Hexa to me a month or so back, hence the above comment...haha)
Yes, I had, but I dont like the way these MPVs look, and hence I will not buy it. Had it been offered with 4WD and AT, I could have given it a thought, but in the current avatar, no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by csnanjappa View Post
Just an outside thought , what about Creta Diesel Auto . The ride quality is good diesel Auto is ok , not frugal as Jetta . You might miss on some of the safety features on auto trim because its not top end .
None of these pseudo SUVs appeal to me. It is either an AT SUV with 4L or a sturdy, frugal, spacious AT sedan.
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Old 19th May 2017, 14:34   #30
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Default Re: SUV to premium sedan for touring purposes : A pipe dream?

You can still think about top end Honda City AT , new model is full of bells and whistles . Sunroof , 6 air bags , paddle shift , enough legroom and frugal petrol automatic . You can save some money , also with diesel engines dying a slow death you might have better resale value on Petrol engines .
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