Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > What Car?


View Poll Results: Are automatics faster than manual counterparts
Yes, Automatics are faster 6 9.38%
No way, Its manual transmission all along 31 48.44%
Cant' say, it depends on the vehicle 27 42.19%
Voters: 64. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 6th August 2012, 20:02   #151
BHPian
 
dezrskb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Udupi
Posts: 233
Thanked: 114 Times
Default

Hi to everybody,
With so much discussion happening on automatics and manual shifts, I found a useful article on DSG. Here it is

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/DSG-faq-VW-Audi.htm
dezrskb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th August 2012, 20:50   #152
BHPian
 
k_nitin_r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Dubai,Hyderabad
Posts: 470
Thanked: 74 Times
Default Re: Automatic or Manual - Which is faster?

When I moved to India, I switched from an automatic to a manual. Initially, I switched gears by looking at the speedometer, but then it came more naturally. Some people exclaim, "You are in 5th gear at 45 km/hr!!!," and all I could say is that it's the way the gearbox was setup for the Esteem Di.

I'm glad I've got a manual transmission because with the kind of brakes that come with a Maruti, downshifting while the AC is running is something that becomes a second nature when you reach for the brake pedal (you'll have to drive an old diesel Esteem through flood waters to know exactly what I mean).

If we have better quality cars in India, perhaps an automatic transmission would be the choice for people who don't care about getting 22 kmpl instead of 24 kmpl (pretty much all of us on this forum; it's mostly the taxis that try to get every bit of distance out of the fuel).
k_nitin_r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th August 2012, 15:10   #153
Senior - BHPian
 
headers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greater Chennai
Posts: 4,589
Thanked: 454 Times
Default Re: Automatic or Manual - Which is faster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by k_nitin_r View Post
If we have better quality cars in India, perhaps an automatic transmission would be the choice for people who don't care about getting 22 kmpl instead of 24 kmpl (pretty much all of us on this forum; it's mostly the taxis that try to get every bit of distance out of the fuel).
Sir, We've got world class cars out here in India. Are you willing to put your money for that is the question.

You could buy the Rolls Royce or a Porsche or a Ferrari in India now
headers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th August 2012, 15:26   #154
Team-BHP Support
 
suhaas307's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 8,053
Thanked: 6,597 Times
Default Re: Automatic or Manual - Which is faster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by k_nitin_r View Post
If we have better quality cars in India, perhaps an automatic transmission would be the choice for people who don't care about getting 22 kmpl instead of 24 kmpl (pretty much all of us on this forum; it's mostly the taxis that try to get every bit of distance out of the fuel).
Modern automatic trannys are designed to be more efficient and quicker than manual cars.

While most of VAG shares the DSG 'box under different monikers like S-Tronic, PDK, etc. Mercedes is working on a DCT and it won't be long before it trickles down from the SLS to all the lesser Mercedes cars.

Ford has it on the Fiesta. You even find a similar system in the Mitsubishi EVO X.

Even the Japs are going the dual-clutch rout. It will take some time before manuals are completely eradicated - for the purpose of achieving enhanced efficiency and performance. But it will happen.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 7th August 2012 at 15:27.
suhaas307 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 7th August 2012, 15:49   #155
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,376
Thanked: 528 Times
Default Re: Automatic or Manual - Which is faster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
Modern automatic trannys are designed to be more efficient and quicker than manual cars.
How?
It will be interesting to see some data from the regular cars (not sports cars which are designed for tracks).
I agree that the gap (in terms of FE and acceleration) between the two is reducing but I believe manuals are still ahead.
Guna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th August 2012, 15:59   #156
Team-BHP Support
 
noopster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 8,662
Thanked: 9,184 Times
Default Re: Automatic or Manual - Which is faster?

^^ DCT/DSG gearboxes are by design faster than manual transmissions since they have two clutches corresponding to different sets of gears (e.g. 1,3,5 and 2,4,6) and the upshifts/downshifts are practically seamless. Check here for more details.

In the non-luxury segments, only VW AG and now Ford offer these type of boxes. The rest are mostly torque convertors with the odd CVT tossed in.
noopster is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 7th August 2012, 16:09   #157
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,376
Thanked: 528 Times
Default Re: Automatic or Manual - Which is faster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by noopster View Post
^^ DCT/DSG gearboxes are by design faster than manual transmissions since they have two clutches corresponding to different sets of gears (e.g. 1,3,5 and 2,4,6) and the upshifts/downshifts are practically seamless. Check here for more details.

In the non-luxury segments, only VW AG and now Ford offer these type of boxes. The rest are mostly torque convertors with the odd CVT tossed in.
Theory apart, can you post some figures for comparing?
Guna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th August 2012, 16:18   #158
Team-BHP Support
 
suhaas307's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 8,053
Thanked: 6,597 Times
Default Re: Automatic or Manual - Which is faster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guna View Post
How?
It will be interesting to see some data from the regular cars (not sports cars which are designed for tracks).
I agree that the gap (in terms of FE and acceleration) between the two is reducing but I believe manuals are still ahead.
I should have been more clear Guna, sorry.

The difference with respect to efficiency and performance is marginal. DTCs ensure that the highest gear is selected for sedate cruising thereby making sure that the engine runs in 'efficiency-mode' if you will.

The 'box pre-selects the clutch and gear accordingly, much faster than an average human being would. Two clutches help swag cogs seamlessly and also reduces lag between shifts. This not only reduces shift-times but also allows the driver to exploit the conditions, the steering and the abilities of the car while concentrating on cornering and braking.

I don't have real-world or published figures but I have read that the DSG has shaved off acceleration times in cars like the VW Golf GTI and the SEAT Leon Cupra. - Both of which by the way are popular and affordable hatchbacks.

The DSG does need improvement though. The 7-speed dry-clutch DSG 'box in the older Superbs were prone to failure. Also, from what I've read on other forums and blogs, it doesn't feel as tactile, involving or intuitive as it should have. Some say it isn't as fun as a manual, and some swear by it because it offers the best of both worlds. Basically, it all comes down to priorities. I would recommend a DSG if the car is a daily-driver, but NOT in a weekend car.

NOTE: Even though Porsche were the first to pioneer dual-clutch technology back in the '80s, the technology found its way into normal everyday cars (VWs) while Porsche continued to hone the technology in order to harness greater levels of power and torque. And they'd finally achieved it a few years ago.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 7th August 2012 at 16:27.
suhaas307 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th August 2012, 16:32   #159
Team-BHP Support
 
.anshuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Good-Gaon
Posts: 7,708
Thanked: 8,928 Times
Default

Here is a back to back test of DSG vs Manual by Autocar UK



Edit: Another one from Fifth gear


Last edited by .anshuman : 7th August 2012 at 16:46.
.anshuman is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 7th August 2012, 16:34   #160
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,376
Thanked: 528 Times
Default Re: Automatic or Manual - Which is faster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by noopster View Post
^^ DCT/DSG gearboxes are by design faster than manual transmissions since they have two clutches corresponding to different sets of gears (e.g. 1,3,5 and 2,4,6) and the upshifts/downshifts are practically seamless. Check here for more details.

In the non-luxury segments, only VW AG and now Ford offer these type of boxes. The rest are mostly torque convertors with the odd CVT tossed in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guna View Post
Theory apart, can you post some figures for comparing?
Pulled the numbers from ACI, and yes DSGs are quicker then manuals!

0-100 kmph
Jetta 2.0 TDI A/T =10.02 secs
Jetta 2.0 TDI MT =10.92 secs

Laura 2.0 TDI A/T= 9.72 secs
Laura 2.0 TDI MT= 11.40 secs (I think this number is wrong. This seems to be for 1.9 TDI)
Guna is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 7th August 2012, 17:16   #161
BHPian
 
ghostrider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bombay
Posts: 678
Thanked: 305 Times
Default Re: Automatic or Manual - Which is faster?

As a lot of posters have commented, erstwhile clearly distinguishing attributes like performance and fuel economy have now been blurred when it comes to choosing between a manual and an auto, so at the end of the day it boils down to what matters to you.

So... if you're looking for which is faster, my response would be - who cares?
At the end of the day whether a manual tranny or a slushbox is faster is irrelevant unless you're on a track. What matters is (a) your driving preference and (b) your driving circumstances.

If your driving preference is to feel more integrated with the car and to enjoy a more mechanical aspect of driving, get a manual. If your preference is comfort and convenience, get an auto.
ghostrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th August 2012, 17:17   #162
Senior - BHPian
 
headers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greater Chennai
Posts: 4,589
Thanked: 454 Times
Default Re: Automatic or Manual - Which is faster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guna View Post
How?
I agree that the gap (in terms of FE and acceleration) between the two is reducing but I believe manuals are still ahead.
Manuals are like old carburetor engines whereas automatics are like Fuel Injected engines.

The last decade has witnessed a splurge of Fuel Injected vehicles thanks to the tightening emission norms and the Pollution control board of India finally calling the shots for improvement in technology.

I am positive in another decade, India would have migrated to auto boxes
headers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th August 2012, 17:20   #163
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: India
Posts: 610
Thanked: 590 Times
Default Re: Automatic or Manual - Which is faster?

Correct em if I am wrong but I am of the opinion that no self respecting enthusiast will ever be seen driving an Auto Box.
Pedaltothefloor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th August 2012, 17:34   #164
anb
BHPian
 
anb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: TRIVANDRUM
Posts: 263
Thanked: 134 Times
Default Re: Automatic or Manual - Which is faster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by noopster View Post
^^ DCT/DSG gearboxes are by design faster than manual transmissions since they have two clutches corresponding to different sets of gears (e.g. 1,3,5 and 2,4,6) and the upshifts/downshifts are practically seamless.
Yes, cars like Bugatti Veyron and BMW M5 have DCT transmission. But DSG will be slow in case of downshifting 2 gears.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guna View Post
Pulled the numbers from ACI, and yes DSGs are quicker then manuals!

Laura 2.0 TDI A/T= 9.72 secs
Laura 2.0 TDI MT= 11.40 secs (I think this number is wrong. This seems to be for 1.9 TDI)
No the Laura manual has 110 bhp engine while the auto has 140 bhp engine. That explains the difference in timing.
anb is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 7th August 2012, 18:36   #165
Senior - BHPian
 
headers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greater Chennai
Posts: 4,589
Thanked: 454 Times
Default Re: Automatic or Manual - Which is faster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedaltothefloor View Post
Correct em if I am wrong but I am of the opinion that no self respecting enthusiast will ever be seen driving an Auto Box.
You gotta drive one of the new gen cars with auto box to believe what it can do!

I had a similar view many years ago
headers is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OHC Vtec vs Baleno (both stock) - which one is faster to the ton and beyond? BlackPearl Technical Stuff 196 8th December 2007 10:43
Which car is faster? Baleno or Vtec? speedfreak7116 Sedans 122 30th September 2005 22:25
An accord which is faster & have better fe than v6 _Crazi4Speed_ The International Automotive Scene 2 7th October 2004 14:43


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 13:20.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks