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Old 9th October 2008, 15:45   #31
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The use of airbags alone is more injurious, I'm a sports dentist and i am going to quote the following from a trauma study handbook:

"Airbags were specifically designed to be used with seatbelts—serious injuries may result in victims who, because they are not properly restrained by seatbelts, are "out of position" when airbags deploy. Results show that drivers and passengers who use airbags without seatbelts have a higher rate of cervical spine fractures, with or without spinal cord injury, and have more severe injuries in general. Use of seatbelt in conjunction with the airbag and maintaining at least 10 inches between the steering column and the sternum may decrease injury severity and rate of airbag induced cervical spine and spinal cord injuries."

Airbags are NOT designed to protect the face as someone said in this thread but for prevention of spinal injuries. Infact shorter drivers have reported facial burns due to airbag deployment but have been saved from paralytic injuries.

I'l also quote another article:
"There have been deaths involving children and small women. These
have generally involved the person sitting closer to the airbag than the designers had anticipated and the fact that airbags were originally designed to slow a heavier male airbag has not fully deployed by the time the
occupant hits them. As a result, the occupant is struck not only with the force of their own body travelling forward, but with the airbag very rapidly moving backwards to hit them. Ideally, airbags are designed to be fully inflated by the time the occupant first touches them."

Most big cars have buttons to deactivate airbags in case of a child or small person sits on the passenger seat.

On a more relaxed thought:
STEVEN D. LEVITT from freakonomics says: "Along the way in doing this research, we also were able to dispatch with an urban legend. I have heard people say a number of times how drunks manage to survive crashes better than sober people, which has led ER docs to hypothesize that having alcohol in your system relaxes you and allows you to better absorb the blow of the crash. It may surprise you that drunks really are more likely to survive crashes. "
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Old 9th October 2008, 19:40   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laluks View Post
for some of the higher end cars, it is a requirement even to deploy the airbag even if seat belts are not buckled. Here they use videography and seat mats to find out the occupants position and category before the airbags are really deployed. Amazing isn't it?
Which cars have this 'videography and seat maps?'

The dicsussion on here is the fact that airbags DO not activate only if the seat belt is fastened and everyone agrees that YES the airbag can have an adverse effect if your not wearing a seatbelt.

What happens with people who have their seat belts fastened and lean into the steering wheel whilst driving? Just because they have their belts fastened doesnt mean they are safer.

And yeah - Theres no excuse not to wear a seatbelt.

The link attached on page 2 of this thread by Monksansferrari, explains how seatbelts work in detail. Its worth a read.
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Old 9th October 2008, 21:21   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post
to quote the following from a trauma study handbook:

"Airbags were specifically designed to be used with seatbelts—
Tejas, that trauma handbook might need a revision according to a wikipedia article which states that airbags were originally designed to protect occupants from hitting hard objects like the dash and steering wheel. Later, they were marketed as an alternative to seat belts. Only through experience did people realize that they should be redesigned and remarketed to be used in conjunction with seatbelts.

Thanks, I did not know that current airbags, when used with a 3-point belt can prevent a significant number of spine injuries. I also did not know that while 2-point belts cause some injuries, they can possibly prevent injuries associated with 3-point belts.

Sources:

Airbag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
How to Walk Away From a Car Accident

Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorque View Post
it has to be a non japenese to be safe,
OCTAVIA.
Is it not possible for some Japanese cars to be safer than some non-Japanese cars, doctorque?

Last edited by Dose : 9th October 2008 at 21:30.
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Old 9th October 2008, 21:26   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorque View Post
it has to be a non japenese to be safe,
OCTAVIA.
Is it not possible for some Japanese cars to be safer than some non-Japanese cars?

Edit: Sorry. Mods, please delete this post. Thanks.

Last edited by Dose : 9th October 2008 at 21:31.
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Old 9th October 2008, 21:41   #35
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Originally Posted by ravibhat View Post
I feel best bet in 10 lacs range in Bangalore is top end version of Fabia, Cedia, New Honda City. Then comes Sx4, Aveo, Fiesta, Verna.

I too heard Elantra is best Sedan in 10lacs category! I hated its low rear seats.

AirBAG openning without seat belt might kill the person instantly If face position is stuck to airbag thats what I saw DEMO and read article online and in few car manufacturers website worldwide.

Regards,

Ravi.
Ravi Garu,

On Safety ,
Fabia, Cedia,Aveo, Fiesta - Yes
New Honda City - NO,
Sx4 - NOOOOO,
Verna - NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
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Old 9th October 2008, 21:46   #36
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Dose,
Wiki is not the final say in matters. it is basically written and edited by normal people some of whom may have scientific knowledge of the subject.
This handbook was part of a course i did this spring in cologne for trauma to the face during motor sport races. I would prefer to take the word of a bunch of trauma specialists and car safety experts than some wiki article.
and anyways, forget what the airbags were originally designed to do or not to do. we are talking about the present.

BTW i followed the article thread you posted and did you notice the first thing it says in brackets?
I've posted a screen shot of it below.
frankly i don't know if they do this post for all articles or only ones they suspect may require editing.

P.S. no hard feelings, i tend to get a little aggressive with people when someone questions something i think i am proficient in.

Cheers
Attached Thumbnails
Car with the best safety features ?-picture-1.png  

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Old 9th October 2008, 21:50   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vigsom View Post
Ravi Garu,

On Safety ,
Fabia, Cedia,Aveo, Fiesta - Yes
New Honda City - NO,
Sx4 - NOOOOO,
Verna - NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
Please enlighten us on the basis of your opinion, vigsom.
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Old 9th October 2008, 22:25   #38
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Airbags deploying without seatbelts on is potentially dangerous, though the car manufacturer need not mandate it for seatbelts to be put on for the airbags to be deployed. Depends on the design, but usually it's a better way to do it.
Airbags are often referred to as SRS (Secondary Restraint System), the primary restraint being seatbelts, Airbags are also designed to work in tandem with the seatbelts and best protect the occupants of the vehicle. Not using your seatbelts and having an airbag deploy is one best ways of getting your neck broken.
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Old 9th October 2008, 22:37   #39
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Now real thing here we have to see in that these tests which are reported in the wiki article and any other article is related to the U.S. there people drive at 50-60 MPH we cannot drive that fast on India roads so our experiance with airbags will be minimal as of now for us airbags are just assurance that if anything happens there is something that will protect us from hard objects.

Another point very well said by tejas and which is also mentioned in wiki is that you cannot expect airbags to do all the work and help you be safe even the driver should take precautions like wear seat-belt, keep safe distance from steering wheel/dash board etc. I have seen so many people sit so close to the steering wheel that if they meet with an accident their ribs will break or due to airbags they will be pushed back which would hurt their spine, neck, face, eyes etc.

So airbags and other features are just to assist us but we must also assist them to keep us safe.
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Old 9th October 2008, 23:45   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post
Dose,
Wiki is not the final say in matters. it is basically written and edited by normal people some of whom may have scientific knowledge of the subject.
This handbook was part of a course i did this spring in cologne for trauma to the face during motor sport races. I would prefer to take the word of a bunch of trauma specialists and car safety experts than some wiki article.
and anyways, forget what the airbags were originally designed to do or not to do. we are talking about the present.
I agree it is not the final say in matters but neither is a handbook or any article, scientific or otherwise. Better to take them all with a pinch of salt, I believe. What I like about Wiki is that it is a dynamic, digital encyclopedia capable of being edited anytime with sufficient evidence unlike printed matter which is static and can be outdated quickly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post
BTW i followed the article thread you posted and did you notice the first thing it says in brackets?
I've posted a screen shot of it below.
frankly i don't know if they do this post for all articles or only ones they suspect may require editing.

P.S. no hard feelings, i tend to get a little aggressive with people when someone questions something i think i am proficient in.

Cheers
Yes, I noticed the first thing in brackets. No, they do not seem to have this disclaimer for all articles but that does not mean that the ones without the disclaimer are any more or any less accurate.

Definitely no hard feelings, sir. You seem very proficient and it is a pleasure debating with someone of your open-mindedness, intelligence, and experience. I learn new things everyday from people like you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by autoenthusiast View Post
Airbags are often referred to as SRS (Secondary Restraint System), the primary restraint being seatbelts, Airbags are also designed to work in tandem with the seatbelts
autoenthusiast, which manufacturers refer to SRS as Secondary Restraint System and not as Supplemental Restraint System?

Last edited by Dose : 9th October 2008 at 23:47.
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Old 10th October 2008, 00:12   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etch View Post
Now real thing here we have to see in that these tests which are reported in the wiki article and any other article is related to the U.S. there people drive at 50-60 MPH we cannot drive that fast on India roads so our experiance with airbags will be minimal as of now for us airbags are just assurance that if anything happens there is something that will protect us from hard objects.
etch, people in India sometimes drive at 50-60 mph. According to the wiki article, the U.S. law says the airbag threshold should be at a deceleration equivalent to hitting a barrier at 14 mph (23 kmph). So, unless Indian law specifies a different threshold, an airbag can easily deploy in a low speed non-highway accident providing the sensors detect sufficient deceleration. Therefore, it is a good reason why one should wear a seatbelt even when driving inside the city or village no matter how short the trip duration.
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Old 13th October 2008, 14:34   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dose View Post
autoenthusiast, which manufacturers refer to SRS as Secondary Restraint System and not as Supplemental Restraint System?
Jeez yes, it's Supplemental Restraint System, my sleep getting the better of me.
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Old 16th October 2008, 15:14   #43
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If anyone is interested, I wrote an article on considering safety aspects, with an emphasis on crash tests, before purchasing a vehicle. Here is the link:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post1009090 (A Guide to: Buying a Safer Automobile)
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Old 23rd October 2008, 15:22   #44
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Two more good articles:

cars.com: 2006 Luxury Vehicles | What You Need to Know About Luxury Cars and Safety

Why These Drivers Steer Clear of S.U.V.'s - New York Times
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Old 23rd October 2008, 15:53   #45
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Somewhere i've heard that a M-800 is more safer than a Merc.

Airbags and ABS are a must
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