Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > What Car?


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 4th May 2009, 21:38   #196
Team-BHP Support
 
benbsb29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 8,022
Thanked: 3,475 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhp1 View Post
P.S: Scorpio has a lone crusader in the form of Raj! If I end up with a Scorp, it shall be entirely due to his persistence!
@bhp1 : I find it quite amusing how someone who was all about the forum screaming hoarse about how M&M vehicles dont offer ABS and airbags on all variants finally has the very same product on his buying radar! Dont remember? Check out your views on the Xylo thread. Now that there is an affordable variant with ABS which M&M offers on the Scorpio, why dont you stretch for that, instead of claiming that since the base variant has fewer electronics, it would have fewer problems?

Quite truly they say, "What goes around, comes around".
benbsb29 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2009, 21:49   #197
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NA
Posts: 513
Thanked: Once
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by benbsb29 View Post
@bhp1 : I find it quite amusing how someone who was all about the forum screaming hoarse about how M&M vehicles dont offer ABS and airbags on all variants finally has the very same product on his buying radar! Dont remember? Check out your views on the Xylo thread. Now that there is an affordable variant with ABS which M&M offers on the Scorpio, why dont you stretch for that, instead of claiming that since the base variant has fewer electronics, it would have fewer problems?
I fear you got me wrong!
I don't have a problem with the vehicle per say but I wanted to make people aware that these are not safe vehicles, who otherwise consider them safe.

If I buy one of these, I shall be buying keeping in mind their unsafe nature & be ready to jeopardize my safety & not be under the false impression that Im driving a safe vehicle around!

Also, it seems you did not read my posts carefully, I never rued the fact that these vehicles lacked ABS/Airbags, my concern was to have a crash worthy/impact absorbing platform/chassis.

I still maintain these are not safe vehicles & I shall be buying with my heart not mind!

P.S: Just hope if you could have added something worthwhile & not gotten embroiled in the "going around coming around" theory!
bhp1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2009, 22:44   #198
BHPian
 
nvldvr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 399
Thanked: 248 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhp1 View Post
P.S: Scorpio has a lone crusader in the form of Raj! If I end up with a Scorp, it shall be entirely due to his persistence!
Well may be on this forum, Raj is the lone crusader for scorpio. But just go out on the roads and see for yourself. You will see scorpios all over the place. So in case you do go for it, very little probabilty that you will regret your decision. Cheers.
nvldvr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2009, 23:09   #199
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NA
Posts: 513
Thanked: Once
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nvldvr View Post
You will see scorpios all over the place. So in case you do go for it, very little probabilty that you will regret your decision. Cheers.
Precisely & thus all the confusion!
Exercise would be to reduce the regretability factor to minimum!
bhp1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2009, 06:51   #200
Senior - BHPian
 
shankar.balan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: BLR
Posts: 8,027
Thanked: 5,325 Times
Default

hi
no worries. have a look at my comment on the Skoda Yeti thread and the other one I started about why cant manufacturers give us a nice compact diesel driven SUV/Crossover 4WD at the 6-7 lac range.

Also - yes I drive the 2WD scorpio right now because I dont do much serious off road anymore - like I used to in my Gypsy. Scorpio I bought primarily on account of power, diesel motor, space, good for long distance etc.

And being 6 ft 2 inches tall, with the steering wheel placed in the "up" position I do not find any trouble with leg room in the driving seat for my long legs. I do however, use a lower back cushion on long drives as it helps my comfort.

But seriously, I wish the car manufacturers would think seriously about the Suzuki Gypsy/Vitara/Samurai/Jimmy/Jimny type vehicle in a Diesel Version at a 7 lac MAX price with 4WD.

I am 100% sure that many guys who are currently buying the fusion, wagonR, santro, I 10, I 20, Getz, Swift, SX4, Palio, Aveo U va, SRV, Fabia, Scorpio, Safari etc etc etc will certainly consider such an option for themselves.
Given our bad roads, need for high ground clearance, compact proportions and easy to park in cities, frugality of Diesel, our desire to pack in several people plus luggage AND a certain amount of go anywhere capability all at a reasonable price!

Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
Bashing.... seriously where? If saying that Innova is more driveable than Scorpio amount to bashing then yes I am guilty


Again that was my opinion. Tata gives you a 4X4 option ever since in Safari even when there were engine changes, 3.0 Litre or the new 2.2 DICOR so if you want you can buy it which is not the case right now with Scorpio. Even the theme of advertisements tells you where the respective company wants to position its product. One urges you to reclaim your life, go outdoors and live not merely exist in contrast to the mighty muscular thingie which goes around sand dunes and then is surrounded by civics and bikes on a highway.
What good is an SUV without a 4-wheel drive? Is it even an SUV... as someone said earlier MUV would be more like it but then it wont massage the SUV ego.. isnt? Again this is just my opinion you may or may not subscribe to it.


Well the point is whatever it is... a 4x4 version of either Scorpio or Safari is much more capable and 'real' (for the want of a better word) than the 4x2 version. A 4x2 version of either of them is a huge compromise if you compare it to an Innova.... handling, interiors, quality, reliability, there's no comparison. So why would someone buy a pseudo SUV.... well there again the butch looks and the ego massage forgoing the virtues of a vehicle.
I am guessing you drive a 4x2 Scorpio?
shankar.balan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2009, 08:50   #201
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,953
Thanked: 15,643 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nvldvr View Post
Well may be on this forum, Raj is the lone crusader for scorpio. But just go out on the roads and see for yourself. You will see scorpios all over the place. So in case you do go for it, very little probabilty that you will regret your decision. Cheers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhp1 View Post
Precisely & thus all the confusion!
Exercise would be to reduce the regretability factor to minimum!
nvldvr, you are confusing him more, if he goes out on the roads, he is going to see all safari's and hardly any scorpios. After all he belongs to the kingdom of the Safari
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2009, 08:55   #202
Senior - BHPian
 
shankar.balan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: BLR
Posts: 8,027
Thanked: 5,325 Times
Default

is this statement actually true? Or is it one of those "baiting" ones?
Far as I have observed (atleast in Southern India on the Highways and Hill Roads) it is exactly the other way round.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
nvldvr, you are confusing him more, if he goes out on the roads, he is going to see all safari's and hardly any scorpios. After all he belongs to the kingdom of the Safari
shankar.balan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2009, 10:28   #203
Senior - BHPian
 
suman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 4,589
Thanked: 257 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
is this statement actually true? Or is it one of those "baiting" ones?
Far as I have observed (atleast in Southern India on the Highways and Hill Roads) it is exactly the other way round.
Bhp1 lives in Punjab & hence Tanveer's comment.....
suman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2009, 10:44   #204
Senior - BHPian
 
shankar.balan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: BLR
Posts: 8,027
Thanked: 5,325 Times
Default

thing is - it (Safari) is a nice vehicle. I just find it too big for the city and I have this psychological dread of something going wrong with its electricals and innards and then going through too much difficulty + time waste + costs with the tata service chaps.
For example: (pl. excuse my digressing a little) my father's 3 year old DLG Turbo Indica suddenly kicked the bucket in the middle of the road a couple weeks ago. Of course he had it towed away and took it to tata motors. They said that the Fuel Pump was defective and several other things. Total Bill? 14 Grand!!! Downtime? 5 working days -one week!! Irritation level?? Frightening!!
But luckily poor dad was covered by the extended warranty so he had to shell out only 4 Grand in total. and luckily my sister's spare car was available for his transportation rescue.
Thats one of the reasons why I think that the Tata engineers experiment with their vehicles on the public and rectify things based on "live" experience! It worries me a lot.
And I do believe as far the next upgrade for Dad goes, I shall seriously consider SWIFT VDI though I said all sorts of deadly things in the past posts about the Quadrajet Vista and so on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
Bhp1 lives in Punjab & hence Tanveer's comment.....

Last edited by shankar.balan : 5th May 2009 at 10:45.
shankar.balan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2009, 11:09   #205
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,031
Thanked: 381 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
thing is - it (Safari) is a nice vehicle. I just find it too big for the city and I have this psychological dread of something going wrong with its electricals and innards and then going through too much difficulty + time waste + costs with the tata service chaps.
For example: (pl. excuse my digressing a little) my father's 3 year old DLG Turbo Indica suddenly
<Snipped>
.
As if this never happens on other brands , We do have some shining examples which I need not quote , I have no intention to start a spat here participants on this thread are already active in there as well, but then at least they tow and provide replacements.

Any way as I wrote about a couple of months on this thread everything and anything under the sun on what can be considered comfortable high miler is already discussed on this thread so now it is going again in circles.
amitk26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2009, 14:59   #206
Senior - BHPian
 
shankar.balan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: BLR
Posts: 8,027
Thanked: 5,325 Times
Default

yes I know and I agree about enough spats on this forum let alone thread
but then, let me also say that when making statements in general, lets be emphatic about things, but lets also be balanced. i think in some measure all of us are guilty as charged - no one is above that at the moment regardless of who they are and of what status they may be!

looks like it is a common failing this going around in circles thingy too somewhat like the Thompson twins in Tintin!



Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
As if this never happens on other brands , We do have some shining examples which I need not quote , I have no intention to start a spat here participants on this thread are already active in there as well, but then at least they tow and provide replacements.

Any way as I wrote about a couple of months on this thread everything and anything under the sun on what can be considered comfortable high miler is already discussed on this thread so now it is going again in circles.
shankar.balan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2009, 16:09   #207
Senior - BHPian
 
raj_5004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Dubai/Mumbai
Posts: 5,078
Thanked: 2,031 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhp1 View Post
P.S: Scorpio has a lone crusader in the form of Raj! If I end up with a Scorp, it shall be entirely due to his persistence!
no buddy, i wont persuade you to buy any vehicle, neither the scorpio nor the innova. its ultimately upto what you like & where your priorities lie.

infact, a few posts before, i was strongly recommending the innova. its only when you mentioned that your usage will be on poor roads, i suggested you a SUV & hence the scorpio. why not the safari? well, i never really recommend a safari to anybody. reasons? bhp1 is absolutely aware of that. infact, i will suggets a safari to only those whose highest priorities are SUV image, cabin space & good ride quality & if they do not mind some niggles & small issues here & there.
raj_5004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2009, 16:42   #208
Team-BHP Support
 
manson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 3,547
Thanked: 2,034 Times
Arrow A few inputs:

@BHP1: If it is between the Innova & the Scrpio, and if you are going to drive yourself, I would recommend the Scorpio SLE without a doubt. Despite the slightly tacky looks (subjective), the refreshed Scorpio is a superb package. The Mhawk engine is superbly fun motor, the new seats are a lot more comfortable than the previous generation Scorpio and the ABS is a big plus.
The Scorpio is a reliable vehicle to live with, and service costs aren't going to break the bank either.

On the other hand, if you are going to be driven around, the Innova is one of the most luxurious vehicles than can be had this side of 50L barring the tinny body shell. The space and seating comfort is outstanding, but driving one around yourself can get a little boring over a long period of time.

Disclaimer: The following is strictly my opinion.
Very recently I was considering the Safari as I thought it would have been the ideal balance between driver fun and passenger comfort. After more than a handful attempts I finally managed a test drive of the Safari. I got a brand new test drive vehicle tro lay my hands on, just a day old with all the plastics yet on. I was mostly the first person to take it out for a spin.
Following are some of the observations I made through the test drive:
  • Rust on the rear door inside panel, unacceptable for a brand new vehicle.
  • Rubber tubing alongside the windows was not aligned.
  • The Aircon vents in the dashboard were loose, and one of them could do a full vertical rotation.
  • The plastics were of sub standard quality for a 10L odd vehicle.
  • The view from the driver's seat was the best thing about the Safari, hardly a blind spot.

I was simply put off by the build quality, and had the Safari off my list almost immediately. This after I have been wanting to own a Safari for really long now.



Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
All I can say is it will fare as good if not better than any other 4X2 pseudo SUV's around. As far as I amm concerned, if I am buying a 4X2 Safari or Scorpio, I am only buying an imposter... not the real thing.
And guess what.. going by what Mahindra is doing, they arent even selling the real thing.
I will not comment about the Safari as I do not have any extensive personal experience to generate a response from, but could you be a little more specific about the the pseudo SUV characterisitics and pretence of the the Scorpio.
I have recently parted with my 2004 Scorpio which had clocked 110,000 kms odd. Anyone around me would vouch for the luggage load my Scorpio used to ferry around, sometimes over a 1000 kgs, and all this without a niggle and over some very bad roads. It would glide over rough patches
Through all of this:
  • The suspension was not worked upon even once, simply because it did not require one.
  • I did not face a single breakdown in almost 5 years besides an electical niggle, which again was mostly a failure on part of the battery supplier.
  • It mostly required only regular brake pad changes.
  • One clutch assembly change at 80K.
  • Zilch mechanical failures

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhp1 View Post
True, Innova's high speed composure is brilliant.
I would like to know more about the driving position, as I always thought Innova's driving position was comfortable!
I did some respectable speeds in the Innova just last weekend. The Innova feels extremely composed upto 100-110 kmph. You could stretch this to 120 probably but beyond a 120 kmph the noise levels and the construction of the shell do not inspire much confidence. Also, the Innova is just so comfortable to be in that one does not feel like speeding.
The driving position of the Innova is just perfect, I have not driven a utility vehicle with a better seating postition barring the blind spots. The Safari excels in this regard, the view from the cockpit is just perfect.


Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
Bashing.... seriously where? If saying that Innova is more driveable than Scorpio amount to bashing then yes I am guilty
I have owned both simultaneously for a full year, and I can without a doubt say my 2.6 non CRDE Scorpio is more driveable than the Innova. Try going uphill in both vehciles back to back, the difference will be most evident.

Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
Again that was my opinion. Tata gives you a 4X4 option ever since in Safari even when there were engine changes, 3.0 Litre or the new 2.2 DICOR so if you want you can buy it which is not the case right now with Scorpio.
This is about production policies and economies of scale, does not describe the characteristics of a vehicle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
Well the point is whatever it is... a 4x4 version of either Scorpio or Safari is much more capable and 'real' (for the want of a better word) than the 4x2 version. A 4x2 version of either of them is a huge compromise if you compare it to an Innova....
Ever tried going over a bad patch in an Innova, and then a Scorpio? The Scorpio and the Safari literally much bad roads, and neither need a 4 x 4 for doing that. Like someone else pointed out earlier in the thread, the 4 x 4 is simply a tool, does not necessarily mean than a 4 x 2 similar vehicle is not almost as capable. Infact one would usually only see a seasoned driver take on roads that could be taken down under more effectively by a 4 x 4 equipped vehicle, and IMO a good driver usually knows his way around, with or without 4 x 4.

manson.

Last edited by manson : 5th May 2009 at 16:44.
manson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2009, 18:01   #209
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 3,083
Thanked: 252 Times
Default

Mansion, I agree pretty much with all you've said.

As far as the following comment is concerned:
Quote:
Originally Posted by manson View Post
... and IMO a good driver usually knows his way around, with or without 4 x 4.
A good driver always knows where not to go with the 4X2, LOL!
anupmathur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2009, 18:04   #210
Senior - BHPian
 
shankar.balan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: BLR
Posts: 8,027
Thanked: 5,325 Times
Default

good work manson
you're a 'balanced' guy.
Appreciate your feedback.
Even I ve always felt the old non crde 2.6 scorpio turbo was a superb vehicle - only, the leaf springs at rear are bumpy for rear passengers.
but you're right it moves up hills etc like a dream - punchy engine - indestructible build. Its metal gauge is actually much heavier than the current gen scorp - possibly because they wanted the current gen scorp with crde to move faster, they reduced the metal gauge and thus reduced its overall body weight.
those older scorps are real beasts - i think they can casually do 200000 on the clock and then some without much trouble!
cheer

Quote:
Originally Posted by manson View Post
@BHP1: If it is between the Innova & the Scrpio, and if you are going to drive yourself, I would recommend the Scorpio SLE without a doubt. Despite the slightly tacky looks (subjective), the refreshed Scorpio is a superb package. The Mhawk engine is superbly fun motor, the new seats are a lot more comfortable than the previous generation Scorpio and the ABS is a big plus.
The Scorpio is a reliable vehicle to live with, and service costs aren't going to break the bank either.

On the other hand, if you are going to be driven around, the Innova is one of the most luxurious vehicles than can be had this side of 50L barring the tinny body shell. The space and seating comfort is outstanding, but driving one around yourself can get a little boring over a long period of time.

Disclaimer: The following is strictly my opinion.
Very recently I was considering the Safari as I thought it would have been the ideal balance between driver fun and passenger comfort. After more than a handful attempts I finally managed a test drive of the Safari. I got a brand new test drive vehicle tro lay my hands on, just a day old with all the plastics yet on. I was mostly the first person to take it out for a spin.
Following are some of the observations I made through the test drive:
  • Rust on the rear door inside panel, unacceptable for a brand new vehicle.
  • Rubber tubing alongside the windows was not aligned.
  • The Aircon vents in the dashboard were loose, and one of them could do a full vertical rotation.
  • The plastics were of sub standard quality for a 10L odd vehicle.
  • The view from the driver's seat was the best thing about the Safari, hardly a blind spot.
I was simply put off by the build quality, and had the Safari off my list almost immediately. This after I have been wanting to own a Safari for really long now.





I will not comment about the Safari as I do not have any extensive personal experience to generate a response from, but could you be a little more specific about the the pseudo SUV characterisitics and pretence of the the Scorpio.
I have recently parted with my 2004 Scorpio which had clocked 110,000 kms odd. Anyone around me would vouch for the luggage load my Scorpio used to ferry around, sometimes over a 1000 kgs, and all this without a niggle and over some very bad roads. It would glide over rough patches
Through all of this:
  • The suspension was not worked upon even once, simply because it did not require one.
  • I did not face a single breakdown in almost 5 years besides an electical niggle, which again was mostly a failure on part of the battery supplier.
  • It mostly required only regular brake pad changes.
  • One clutch assembly change at 80K.
  • Zilch mechanical failures


I did some respectable speeds in the Innova just last weekend. The Innova feels extremely composed upto 100-110 kmph. You could stretch this to 120 probably but beyond a 120 kmph the noise levels and the construction of the shell do not inspire much confidence. Also, the Innova is just so comfortable to be in that one does not feel like speeding.
The driving position of the Innova is just perfect, I have not driven a utility vehicle with a better seating postition barring the blind spots. The Safari excels in this regard, the view from the cockpit is just perfect.




I have owned both simultaneously for a full year, and I can without a doubt say my 2.6 non CRDE Scorpio is more driveable than the Innova. Try going uphill in both vehciles back to back, the difference will be most evident.



This is about production policies and economies of scale, does not describe the characteristics of a vehicle.



Ever tried going over a bad patch in an Innova, and then a Scorpio? The Scorpio and the Safari literally much bad roads, and neither need a 4 x 4 for doing that. Like someone else pointed out earlier in the thread, the 4 x 4 is simply a tool, does not necessarily mean than a 4 x 2 similar vehicle is not almost as capable. Infact one would usually only see a seasoned driver take on roads that could be taken down under more effectively by a 4 x 4 equipped vehicle, and IMO a good driver usually knows his way around, with or without 4 x 4.

manson.
shankar.balan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
High-end head phones VS High-end Speakers low_bass_makker In-Car Entertainment 43 30th July 2012 20:39
Morel vs DLS {High End Tweeters - High levels of confusion} Mi10 In-Car Entertainment 5 8th September 2010 18:03
Are High Octanes really high OCTANE pratheesh Technical Stuff 9 20th September 2006 22:48
SuggestmeaGoodCar->FundrivingE&comfortable Apurba The Indian Car Scene 10 5th November 2004 10:38


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 08:08.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks