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Old 30th November 2008, 00:07   #31
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The best ride quality I ever experienced on an Indian car till 10 lakh segment was opel corsa. Its cousins swing and sail also inherited this trade. But too bad these aren't available now.
The other vehicle that came near to corsa recently is safari vtt. Innova and Scorpio are not even in the same league in terms of ride quality let alone match it. It has great suspension and great engine and loads of space. The rear seat comfort is even better than front seat. It can munch up miles on the highway all day.

But the good things end here. What come bundled with this great suspension and engine combo is very poor build quality, horrible interiors, lots of rolling and pitching and pathetic after sales.
Expect the door handles to come out, power windows to stop midway, plastics of such low quality that its unbelievable that TATA had the guts to put it on a 8.5 lakh car, glove box opening up whenever it feels like, steering making all kinds of noises on turning and to top it all TASS telling you that all this is normal.

If you can live with this than go ahead.

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Old 30th November 2008, 11:21   #32
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Originally Posted by bhp1 View Post
Thanks again buddy, your views are really benificial. Yes, I would be doing the driving myself so using the front seats only. According to you with this perspective, Scorpio is easier & better to drive.
But, I tried the Scorpio & found the front drivers seat legroom cramped & my knee kept fouling with the dash(consol).
Otherwise which of the 2 deals poor roads better, with emphasis to front row seating only?
i am 6'2" tall and i dont find the front row cramped, maybe i got used to it. but if you do, just avoid the scorpio and go for the safari.
both scorpio and safari handles bad roads very well. mahindra builds its SUVs for such roads, its in their genes! and the safari with its superior suspension has a better ride. but the safari tends to pick up rattles and squeaks over such roads which the scorpio does not.
also, i said the scorpio is more fun to drive since the engine of scorpio is much better than the safari in terms of refinement and performance.
but since you have a bad back and you feel the scorpio is cramped, you should go for the safari. take an extensive test drive of both. overall, if you are ok with the scorpio's ride, i personally suggest you the scorpio as its more reliable and better to drive.
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Old 30th November 2008, 20:41   #33
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Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
As you will be driving around the car, there are no doubts about the driver seat being the best and its a 100% fatigue free driving, without any doubt.
Both Scorp and the Safari are equally good vehicles, Safari scores a bit higher when it comes to Comfort and stress free drives, especially the loooonnngg drives.
Thanks, yes driving seat seems comfy, but what about the cabin ergonomics, steering feel, one has to climb into the vehicle & not walk in, straight line stability is iffy & safety is a huge concern, also the vehicle is too old.

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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
I am assuming bhp1ji with 15L budget will find a driver too - his back needs that!
PS: Also consider fabia - lovely vehicle, invest savings over an SUV for future skoda feel-special service!!
Thanks sirji, as a matter of fact, I have 2 drivers, 1 for family & other for work, but being a car lover, I prefer doing my own driving.
I test drove the Fabia, ride is good, but its expensive for a hatch, noisy, tyres are unknown & Im afraid of Skoda's expensive ***.

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Originally Posted by vishwaschettri View Post
The best ride quality I ever experienced on an Indian car till 10 lakh segment was opel corsa.
But the good things end here. What come bundled with this great suspension and engine combo is very poor build quality, horrible interiors, lots of rolling and pitching and pathetic after sales.
Expect the door handles to come out, power windows to stop midway, plastics of such low quality that its unbelievable that TATA had the guts to put it on a 8.5 lakh car, glove box opening up whenever it feels like, steering making all kinds of noises on turning and to top it all TASS telling you that all this is normal.
Thanks, I agree with you, I owned both Astra & Corsa on time & must say ride quality was simply unmatched but other issues made me get rid of the cars rather prematurely.
I too share my concerns about Safari with you, lot of peolpe compalin about it every now & then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
i am 6'2" tall and i dont find the front row cramped, maybe i got used to it. but if you do, just avoid the scorpio and go for the safari.
both scorpio and safari handles bad roads very well. mahindra builds its SUVs for such roads, its in their genes! and the safari with its superior suspension has a better ride. but the safari tends to pick up rattles and squeaks over such roads which the scorpio does not.
also, i said the scorpio is more fun to drive since the engine of scorpio is much better than the safari in terms of refinement and performance.
but since you have a bad back and you feel the scorpio is cramped, you should go for the safari. take an extensive test drive of both. overall, if you are ok with the scorpio's ride, i personally suggest you the scorpio as its more reliable and better to drive.
Thanks, front seats of Scorpio are really tight for me, but its nothing that I can't do with!
True, Scorpio is a better drivers car & its tight dimensions make it easy to manouver in City.
But which of the 2 offers superior ingress & egress?
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Old 30th November 2008, 21:42   #34
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Looks like the Safari for you sir. TSKs recommendations on that is also very high. The only downside is the minor niggles that you may have to face with the vehicle and the lack of interest of the TASS service guys.

If you've got a good service centre especially TASS in your area, the GO FOR IT else stay away!
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Old 30th November 2008, 23:12   #35
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@Headers, thanks sir. Yes, in case of Safari, niggles & TASS are prime concerns.
Im not sure about about Tata guys in my City as never owned a Tata vehicle before, but should'nt it be the same standard across Country?

Till now most of the suggestions have favoured Safari & those gone against are mainly directed towards Niggles & TASS. These 2 are very valid downsides, as in modern times, both are expected to be high in a product, so my mind is still not completely rested on Safari!

Other's which appeal to me are- Scorpio, Fabia, Octavia. Even Laura figuered on my list but Im not sure of its ride quality.
If ride quality had'nt been my prime concern, I would have probably settled for an Endeavour. But if things were so simple!!

Last edited by bhp1 : 30th November 2008 at 23:14.
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Old 1st December 2008, 00:03   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhp1 View Post
Thanks, front seats of Scorpio are really tight for me, but its nothing that I can't do with!
True, Scorpio is a better drivers car & its tight dimensions make it easy to manouver in City.
But which of the 2 offers superior ingress & egress?
ingress and egress is equal is both cars, both having similar seat heights. the scorpio's rear seats should be more spacious whereas the safari's heavy front doors are a pain to shut after being seated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhp1 View Post
Other's which appeal to me are- Scorpio, Fabia, Octavia. Even Laura figuered on my list but Im not sure of its ride quality.
If ride quality had'nt been my prime concern, I would have probably settled for an Endeavour. But if things were so simple!!
out of the above mentioned list, the laura will have a better ride at high speeds than the scorpio and safari. however at city speeds, its low profile tyres and hard springs wont be as good as the SUVs with tall springs and cushion tyres.
speaking about service, both tata and mahindra are not good as compared to a honda, toyota or hyundai. they both are cheap, safari's spares being costlier comparitively but still cheap! but the scorpio is more reliable and less prone to giving troubles, but its no toyota either! i feel if you can adjust with the front legroom and average ride of scorpio, then go for it.
else, the safari is the choice as you get enough space and a pampering ride.

Last edited by raj_5004 : 1st December 2008 at 00:04.
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Old 1st December 2008, 07:42   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhp1 View Post
@Headers, thanks sir. Yes, in case of Safari, niggles & TASS are prime concerns.
...

Other's which appeal to me are- Scorpio, Fabia, Octavia. Even Laura figuered on my list but Im not sure of its ride quality.
Guess the Safari and Scorpio are the only vehicles with a slightly better low speed ride quality. Personally the Skoda range did not appeal to me :( for low speed dynamics
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Old 1st December 2008, 11:33   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
ingress and egress is equal is both cars, both having similar seat heights. the scorpio's rear seats should be more spacious whereas the safari's heavy front doors are a pain to shut after being seated.
From a drivers POV, there is not much difference between Safari and Scorpio.
While Safari's back support etc., are better, scorpio scores in 1st gear engagement and the ultra light clutch.
However from a front passengers POV, scorpio sucks. MY knees were almost touching the dash, and the feeling was of being in a small hatch rather than a big SUV.
Scorpio rear seat ride was also considerable more bumpy, esp at low speeds.

Quote:
out of the above mentioned list, the laura will have a better ride at high speeds than the scorpio and safari. however at city speeds, its low profile tyres and hard springs wont be as good as the SUVs with tall springs and cushion tyres.
speaking about service, both tata and mahindra are not good as compared to a honda, toyota or hyundai. they both are cheap, safari's spares being costlier comparitively but still cheap! but the scorpio is more reliable and less prone to giving troubles, but its no toyota either! i feel if you can adjust with the front legroom and average ride of scorpio, then go for it.
else, the safari is the choice as you get enough space and a pampering ride.
Maintaining a Skoda is not really cheap. Infact it was in Ludhiana that Laura owners gave a dharna outside skoda showroom. There is a thread on that too somewhere around here.
For typically rural road setting, where frequent suspension abuse will take place, I would not recommend a skoda. The part costs will be a killer.


However a point to note here is that bhp1 will get better discounts on the Scorpio since Punjab is Safari bastion. If you look at the sales figures, you will see that if it were not for Punjab, the sales of Safari would be pithy as compared to Scorpio. Its one of the states where Safari beats the scorpio by a huge margin. This means getting any discount without "approach" is very difficult.
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Old 1st December 2008, 11:50   #39
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Xylo is around the corner. Did you consider that anytime? IMHO, should have a decent ride.
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Old 1st December 2008, 13:32   #40
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yes, what TSK mentioned is true. punjab is the only state where safari sales are more than scorpio. and this must be due to some valid reason.
i dont know what is it. maybe the lifestyle, roads, different criteria, but since BHP1 has a budget of 15 lakhs, i dont think he should look at discounts and go for any can. both the scorpio and safari top end variants will come well under 15 lakhs, with or without discounts.
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Old 1st December 2008, 14:08   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
ingress and egress is equal is both cars, both having similar seat heights. the scorpio's rear seats should be more spacious whereas the safari's heavy front doors are a pain to shut after being seated.
out of the above mentioned list, the laura will have a better ride at high speeds than the scorpio and safari. however at city speeds, its low profile tyres and hard springs wont be as good as the SUVs with tall springs and cushion tyres.
speaking about service, both tata and mahindra are not good as compared to a honda, toyota or hyundai. they both are cheap, safari's spares being costlier comparitively but still cheap! but the scorpio is more reliable and less prone to giving troubles, but its no toyota either! i feel if you can adjust with the front legroom and average ride of scorpio, then go for it.
else, the safari is the choice as you get enough space and a pampering ride.
Thanks, that was informative. climbing in & out is a chore so to speak! How is Safari's manouverability in City?
In case of Laura, Im more concerned towards in City ride quality, but as you rightly mentioned, low profile tyres indicate to stiff ride. But, Ive rode Octy. & its slow speed ride is comfy, going by this should'nt Laura's ride be an improvement over Octy!
True, that Tata/M&M need to do lot of catching up when it comes to After SS compared to International manufacturers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
Guess the Safari and Scorpio are the only vehicles with a slightly better low speed ride quality. Personally the Skoda range did not appeal to me :( for low speed dynamics
Thanks, yes till now only Safari/Scorpio have figuered highly on Members sugggestions list.
Im not to sure about Skoda products, never owned one. Only Skoda owners can elaborate!

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
From a drivers POV, there is not much difference between Safari and Scorpio.
While Safari's back support etc., are better, scorpio scores in 1st gear engagement and the ultra light clutch.
However from a front passengers POV, scorpio sucks. MY knees were almost touching the dash, and the feeling was of being in a small hatch rather than a big SUV.
Scorpio rear seat ride was also considerable more bumpy, esp at low speeds.

Maintaining a Skoda is not really cheap. Infact it was in Ludhiana that Laura owners gave a dharna outside skoda showroom. There is a thread on that too somewhere around here.
For typically rural road setting, where frequent suspension abuse will take place, I would not recommend a skoda. The part costs will be a killer.

However a point to note here is that bhp1 will get better discounts on the Scorpio since Punjab is Safari bastion. If you look at the sales figures, you will see that if it were not for Punjab, the sales of Safari would be pithy as compared to Scorpio. Its one of the states where Safari beats the scorpio by a huge margin. This means getting any discount without "approach" is very difficult.
Thanks, true, lack of front seat legroom has kept me off from Scorpio from quite sometime. Some tall customers retro adjusted Scorpio's drivers seats, but this does'nt appeal to me. It is like tampering with original equipment & settings, safety might get compromised.

Oh, Ludhiana story about Skoda is news to me! Must have happened as the Dealer in Ludhiana enjoys Majority/Monoply status in Punjab, so the attitude is expected!
Im also wary of Skoda's high maintenance costs.

You are pretty right on Safari's Punjab fortunes, even I used to wonder many a times as to why customers show so much interest in the Safari in Punjab, opposed to consumers Countrywide. But a satisfactory answer always eroded me!
Still discounts on both the vehicles in Punjab are almost the same. Maybe in other areas Safari commands more discounts, due to lesser sales.
Actually, I think Safari finds more favour in Punjab, as earlier Scorpio earned a bad repo of turning turtle at slightest of enthuiasm. Also, its breaks were ridiculed bigtime. Maybe there are other causes too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by windsurfer View Post
Xylo is around the corner. Did you consider that anytime? IMHO, should have a decent ride.
Thanks, yes Xylo is on my agenda, but a clear picture will emerge only after launch!

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
yes, what TSK mentioned is true. punjab is the only state where safari sales are more than scorpio. and this must be due to some valid reason.
i dont know what is it. maybe the lifestyle, roads, different criteria, but since BHP1 has a budget of 15 lakhs, i dont think he should look at discounts and go for any can. both the scorpio and safari top end variants will come well under 15 lakhs, with or without discounts.
Thanks again, yes new Safari's can be spotted in Punjab every now & then, even more than many other successful models.
Lifestyle, as you mentioned, could be one of the leading reasons. Also as I earlier said, Scorpio earned bad repo. to begin with with lot many cars toppling over.
Another reason is that sales of both Safari & Scorpio are more in Villages in Punjab. Now, villagers generally have bigger family sizes & travel with more people onboard, so maybe space has also been an issue.
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Old 1st December 2008, 14:26   #42
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Toyota Innova ,the V version.
Very comfortable. Very well built. Very safe.
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Old 1st December 2008, 14:36   #43
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Thanks Nitrous, I already own an Innova(G variant), its a comfortable vehicle, but low speed ride oveer bumps/potholes is a little choppy!
True, safety & well built are its strong points apart from many other talents.
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Old 1st December 2008, 14:42   #44
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Why not a Suzuki Grand Vitara ? Its a petrol, but then it has its own +ves. Should be approx 17Lacs.
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Old 1st December 2008, 14:48   #45
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Originally Posted by bhp1 View Post
How is Safari's manouverability in City?
The Safari is surprisingly light to manouver in the city given its size. In fact I feel the driving effort is the same as my Indica. However there are three things you will need to get used to for city driving:

1. Poor rear view while reversing - the top end model comes with a rear view camera and that helps. You can get the camera fitted in other models as well.

2. The humongous turning radius - this I feel is the biggest draw back of the Safari as far as city driving is concerned. However I have got used to it and have learned to compensate for this while driving. Besides with the Safari, using the pavements and road side spaces is quite easy, you barely notice it .

3. Parking spaces - given the generous dimensions of the vehicle and the turning radius, you will need to look for extra large parking spaces wherever you go. Not much you can do about this I guess.

Having said that, I use my Safari as a regular drive in Mumbai and am very comfortable with it.
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