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Old 1st December 2008, 14:57   #46
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Why not a Suzuki Grand Vitara ? Its a petrol, but then it has its own +ves. Should be approx 17Lacs.
Thanks, but Vitara is out of question for me. I've never liked the Softroader/SUV, neither has it sold, resale will kill! Also, must be a gas guzzler, so won't give me high miles!

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The Safari is surprisingly light to manouver in the city given its size. In fact I feel the driving effort is the same as my Indica. However there are three things you will need to get used to for city driving:

1. Poor rear view while reversing - the top end model comes with a rear view camera and that helps. You can get the camera fitted in other models as well.

2. The humongous turning radius - this I feel is the biggest draw back of the Safari as far as city driving is concerned. However I have got used to it and have learned to compensate for this while driving. Besides with the Safari, using the pavements and road side spaces is quite easy, you barely notice it .

3. Parking spaces - given the generous dimensions of the vehicle and the turning radius, you will need to look for extra large parking spaces wherever you go. Not much you can do about this I guess.

Having said that, I use my Safari as a regular drive in Mumbai and am very comfortable with it.
Thanks a lot, that was informative.
I can do with reduced rear visibility, large turning radius & need for huge parking space. As I have other cars in my garage to fulfill these parameters!
Rather lack of steering feel upsets me more as that has a direct bearing on safety & confidence!
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Old 1st December 2008, 15:50   #47
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Thanks, that was informative. climbing in & out is a chore so to speak! How is Safari's manouverability in City?
In case of Laura, Im more concerned towards in City ride quality, but as you rightly mentioned, low profile tyres indicate to stiff ride. But, Ive rode Octy. & its slow speed ride is comfy, going by this should'nt Laura's ride be an improvement over Octy!
True, that Tata/M&M need to do lot of catching up when it comes to After SS compared to International manufacturers.



Thanks, yes till now only Safari/Scorpio have figuered highly on Members sugggestions list.
Im not to sure about Skoda products, never owned one. Only Skoda owners can elaborate!
if its for city use, buddy i strongly suggest the scorpio over the safari. the scorpio is just perfect for city use. great low end response, instant pick-up with no turbo lag, great manouverability and good visibilty.
the safari is a pain in the city with its irritating turbo lag and heavy clutch. 1 friend of mine and 1 of my cousin have been amazed by the way the scorpio reacts without any lag. also Mr. pavan kadam of this forum!!

skoda cars are good but service is very bad and expensive. also, the octavia has a better ride than the laura.

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Old 1st December 2008, 15:58   #48
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Thanks, so if Safari is a pain to drive around, it won't help my situation either!
Im looking for overall comfort/package & not just 1 feature, as 1 may be benificial , but other negatives would negate it & leave me surrounded with problems again!

But does Scorpio really trouble front seat occupants or not on broken/uneven tarmac?

Yes, Skoda cars are really expensive to maintain, from what I have come to know from various members views.
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Old 1st December 2008, 16:10   #49
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You can try a TD of the safari around city, and see how good or bad it is.
With the reverse camera, backing up is no longer a pain, however nothing can cure the "U Turn problem". Its like doing U turn on a bus.
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Old 1st December 2008, 16:10   #50
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Default High Miler Hunt

Hi Guys,

The comfortable high miler in a neat package is still a long time away!! There are our home grown SUV/MUVs that are good or say getting better on many counts but still not right there.... and there are the foreign ones in the likes of Pajero, CRV, Tuscon which are really said way out of normal reach... also I will restrict my comments to vehicles upto 20 lakhs since it beomes Let me put down an argument why a comfortable high miler is not yet arrived...

Sedans-

The contenders- Skoda Octavia, Fabia, Optra Magnum

These vehicles are good in comfort, power and ride quality. They also have the diesel options which make them good high milers.. they have good build. With these they are not exactly easy on the pocket, they have few service centers, costly spares(though GM is trying to change that). Simply put just try driving them across Sagar to Shimoga (Karnataka) a dozen times and you will know what I mean..

Indian SUV/MUV

The Contenders- Scorpio, Bolero, Safari, Sumo

With the Bolero and Sumo ruled out as more of MUV's, we have Scorpio and Safari which really fit the bill.. they are right priced for many to buy... they have tough frames, inexpensive to maintain, very well spread out service network.. spares easily available... decent power (the MHawks and 2.2 VTVT are arriving on the scene with some respectability at last).. decent milages (wrt to their size and power) good road presence and can handle our roads... with all that said there is also poor quality associated with it... tacky interiors... cramped legroom(Scorpio), lack of refinement and well after a while lose any kind of premiumness around them... and lack of built to last feeling....

Foreign SUVs

Contenders- Ford Endeavour, Hyundia Tuscon, Mitsuibuishi Pajero, Montero, GM Captiva

These vehicles are characterised with great build quality, good powertrains and safety features. All the vehicles are the latest in their model years (except for Endeavour which has been spruced up with new engine and Pajero which is a classic), the CRV is an trendsetter for urban UV and is flawless in all respects, they have all the comforts and luxuries required in a good High Miler. The one and the only thing that is a major deterrent is that they are not really great value for money as most of their parts are imported or they are CBU's or CKD's. Hence it is out of reach from many many of our public at large.

It looks like there is still a vacant slot available for a good High Miler in our market. Lets see if Xylo slots in to that place and if so then it would be one of the trend/class setters for some time to come.

If you ask me for now to pick a great High Miler, I would still choose the old Pajero albeit with 50% discount in the price tag(afterall its a old model) and see how it vanishes from the showrooms!!

What say guys!!
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Old 1st December 2008, 19:23   #51
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
You can try a TD of the safari around city, and see how good or bad it is.
With the reverse camera, backing up is no longer a pain, however nothing can cure the "U Turn problem". Its like doing U turn on a bus.
Thanks, yes I did TD the Safari & took it through all kinds of terrain, must say it tackled most scenarios with aplomb, except where we expected a little extra from it!
First it was all on mettled/smooth roads, but my real concern was suspension, surprisingly no rough patch of road came for about 30 minutes of driving(fast/slow), with all types of usual tests- sudden acceleration, breaking, overtaking, etc. Now was the real test & I took the vehicle to fields(agricultural), stepped on gas & there she went! Safari cruised past the fields with minimal drama & we were hardly aware of the surface underneath. Then came a slightly mushy area & here is where the Safari gave up the game, its wheels just got buried in the slush & nomatter how much we tried, it did not move, we accelerated the car for around 2 hrs. till the wheels/engine/clutch blowed smoke, it was time to call a Tractor in the end & it took 2 minutes to put it back on track.
But I already knew that the Safari would not fare well in offroading scenarios as it wasn't 4x4 & that it would sink due to its own weight. Still this was not my main motive as suspension is all I wanted to test, offroading just happened! So in its ride quality, it did pass off with flying colors!

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Originally Posted by girishglg View Post
Hi Guys,

The comfortable high miler in a neat package is still a long time away!! There are our home grown SUV/MUVs that are good or say getting better on many counts but still not right there.... and there are the foreign ones in the likes of Pajero, CRV, Tuscon which are really said way out of normal reach... also I will restrict my comments to vehicles upto 20 lakhs since it beomes Let me put down an argument why a comfortable high miler is not yet arrived...

Sedans-

The contenders- Skoda Octavia, Fabia, Optra Magnum

These vehicles are good in comfort, power and ride quality. They also have the diesel options which make them good high milers.. they have good build. With these they are not exactly easy on the pocket, they have few service centers, costly spares(though GM is trying to change that). Simply put just try driving them across Sagar to Shimoga (Karnataka) a dozen times and you will know what I mean..

Indian SUV/MUV

The Contenders- Scorpio, Bolero, Safari, Sumo

With the Bolero and Sumo ruled out as more of MUV's, we have Scorpio and Safari which really fit the bill.. they are right priced for many to buy... they have tough frames, inexpensive to maintain, very well spread out service network.. spares easily available... decent power (the MHawks and 2.2 VTVT are arriving on the scene with some respectability at last).. decent milages (wrt to their size and power) good road presence and can handle our roads... with all that said there is also poor quality associated with it... tacky interiors... cramped legroom(Scorpio), lack of refinement and well after a while lose any kind of premiumness around them... and lack of built to last feeling....

Foreign SUVs

Contenders- Ford Endeavour, Hyundia Tuscon, Mitsuibuishi Pajero, Montero, GM Captiva

These vehicles are characterised with great build quality, good powertrains and safety features. All the vehicles are the latest in their model years (except for Endeavour which has been spruced up with new engine and Pajero which is a classic), the CRV is an trendsetter for urban UV and is flawless in all respects, they have all the comforts and luxuries required in a good High Miler. The one and the only thing that is a major deterrent is that they are not really great value for money as most of their parts are imported or they are CBU's or CKD's. Hence it is out of reach from many many of our public at large.

It looks like there is still a vacant slot available for a good High Miler in our market. Lets see if Xylo slots in to that place and if so then it would be one of the trend/class setters for some time to come.

If you ask me for now to pick a great High Miler, I would still choose the old Pajero albeit with 50% discount in the price tag(afterall its a old model) and see how it vanishes from the showrooms!!

What say guys!!
Thanks so much, where were you all this time, you almost put the entire market into perspective for me!
I completely agree with you, inspite of several models in our market, ideal/perfect ones are still a mirage!

About Skoda's, yes even I have my reservations about the brands expensive nature.

Bolero isn't completely ruled out for me, but I still have to be sure about its ride quality.
Safari & Scorpio are VFM choices & do come with their own shortcomings, Im not considering M-Hawk as of now, as comfort not performance are my prime concerns as of now.

I have driven Endeavour extensively & can surely say that ride quality isn't its forte. Also, CRV doesn't appeal to me, I would either choose a full bloodied SUV or a proper saloon, no criss crossing for me!
Captive though is a good contender, but breaches my budget & is a softroader too.
Pajero is also no where under consideration & as you said it needs a Civic Hybrid like discounting to bring it back into reckoning!

Yes, even Im curious about Xylo, maybe it combines the best of all Worlds!

Last edited by bhp1 : 1st December 2008 at 19:24.
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Old 1st December 2008, 19:43   #52
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scorpio's ride is good in the front seats. its only in the 2nd and 3rd row that its bumpiness is felt.
dude, you will get lots of opinions on this forum. but we can only help you to narrow down on your options. the final verdict will and should be totally yours and it should be entirely be based on your experience with the test drive of the vehicles. on this forum, you can look for the maintainence aspects in the review section too. we, as owners of the particular vehicle, can help you with its positives and negatives.
since we have almost decided on the scorpio or safari, take a test drive of both, back to back, drive both cars in similar conditions which you face everyday. that will give you a clearer picture. and if its the safari which impresses you, you wont mind that extra pain in the city. if its the scorpio that impresses you, you will be ready to sacrifice that extra space (like in my case!).

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Old 1st December 2008, 20:33   #53
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@Raj. dude I've posted query on the forum to get as many responses, this will go a long way in educating me & give me knowledge about the unknown. I can confidently say that I've learned a lot in this thread which I earlier never knew of. Further Im in no sort of hurry, so I can wait, evaluate & then make the final plunge, as I do not want to be repenting later.
Safari/Scorpio are on the list, but so are others, I won't mind fellow members deciding for me as I trust them blindly(including you)!
I am opoen to all sorts of suggestions, my interest in Tempo Traveller/ Winger as suggested by some members goes on to prove this.
So, Im looking forward to more interesting suggestions! Thanks!
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Old 2nd December 2008, 11:24   #54
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The Upgraded Innova is expected soon - I guess it fits your bill perfectly.

But my feel is you are sure to get very confused with the variety of choices you have and that could make it diccult to zero in on one! I guess you should shortlist a few in the price bracket and then start ticking off.
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Old 2nd December 2008, 12:13   #55
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I would rule out the Bolero for long rides because of the weird angle of the gas/brake/clutch pedals. It is right near where you'd keep your legs folded and would cause lot of strain on your knees for long drives because of the angle.

Basically, you cannot operate them with your legs reasonably stretched, which is the prime requisite for long drives.

My 2 cents.

Pradeep

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Bolero isn't completely ruled out for me, but I still have to be sure about its ride quality.
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Old 2nd December 2008, 17:21   #56
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The Upgraded Innova is expected soon - I guess it fits your bill perfectly.

But my feel is you are sure to get very confused with the variety of choices you have and that could make it diccult to zero in on one! I guess you should shortlist a few in the price bracket and then start ticking off.
Thanks, its expected in Jan. 09, but before that Xylo has me more interested as its a completely new vehicle.

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I would rule out the Bolero for long rides because of the weird angle of the gas/brake/clutch pedals. It is right near where you'd keep your legs folded and would cause lot of strain on your knees for long drives because of the angle.

Basically, you cannot operate them with your legs reasonably stretched, which is the prime requisite for long drives.
Thanks, this was much needed, so Bolero is out of my list.
Overall comfort is necessary, as things other than ride quality can spoil the party.
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Old 2nd December 2008, 18:45   #57
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bhp1,

You said, that SUV/softroaders dont appeal to you, however given that you will not be doing too much of off-roading, and are looking at highway/ city driving, IMO, you should also consider the crop of new gen softroaders like the CRV, Outlander and Captiva.

They drive like a sedan, have that extra GC to take care of the bad roads, and are pretty ok with the FE. The safari/scorp also will give you between 9-11 incity and 13 on highways. I'm sure the captiva which is a diesel can match this.
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Old 2nd December 2008, 19:33   #58
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Thanks Smsrini, yes I won't be doing offroading as such but I do dream/think of, so Im going to keep the option open. Actually I had a Maruti Gypsy back in 97 & used to take it for hardcore offroading sometimes.
The concept of softroaders somehow doesn't go well with me. Also, CRV's ride quality is not its USP!
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Old 2nd December 2008, 20:11   #59
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Thanks Smsrini, yes I won't be doing offroading as such but I do dream/think of, so Im going to keep the option open. Actually I had a Maruti Gypsy back in 97 & used to take it for hardcore offroading sometimes.
The concept of softroaders somehow doesn't go well with me. Also, CRV's ride quality is not its USP!
Surprisingly, CRV came ahead of some sedans in ride and handling in the autocar India shootout with Narain karthikeyan!!

Both Safari and Scorpio too are softroaders even in their 4x4 guise, though some of the members here have done some pretty good offroading in their safaris, and the Italians are known to take it to extremes!

The USP probably is the higher GC, and ability to take some abuse of the bad roads, and easy to fix anywhere.

cheers!
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Old 2nd December 2008, 20:25   #60
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Both Scorpio/Safari look rough & tough from the outside, but you are right their offroading capability is limited compared to hardcore SUV's- Pajero's/Montero's of the World.
But I think both can digest more abuse than the CRV, which is more suited to mettled roads. Also, a fact is that a customer like me would think twice before taking an expensive car like CRV for offroading, while Scorpio/Safari won't give me sleepless nights on an offroading trip!
Another point worth remembering is that CRV would burn a hole in my pocket everytime at the gas station!
If finally I settle for a SUV/Softroader in CRV's range, it would be the Endeavour Thunder for sure. Its appeal is massive & I do want to lay my hands on it!
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