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Old 15th November 2013, 10:24   #16
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Default Re: New Vs Pre-Owned Car? Below 12L

I would say if you cannot afford a new BMW or Audi, then you cannot afford a used one either. Once out of warranty these cars are expensive to maintain. The service for a verna costs around 6K (depends) where these ones costs around 40K. One of your requirement is Low maintenance, but these Germans would never fit the bill. Please consider a used Honda Accord or Altis. Comparing to those cars accord is reliable and cheaper to maintain. I was also in same dilemma when i thought of buying car but it went away after seeing the BMW user experiences and the cost of parts. Please stay away from superb as well as it costs a bomb to maintain. Please consider Petrol Elantra as well if you can slightly extend your budget.
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Old 15th November 2013, 11:08   #17
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Default Re: New Vs Pre-Owned Car? Below 12L

@Equus, @IshaanIan : Thanks for the information. I agree that maintenance may cost me a bomb unless I get a really good and well maintained german car.

@ghodlur : I guess I will go for a TD of new fiesta and verna again. Somehow I liked Vento more. Could not get my hands on a Vento TSI for a TD but driven the TDI couple of times and really liked it which is why I placed it above the Verna and Fiesta. In addition, the aspect of Ford levers being inverse of the traditional indian way is a sort of turn off, though not a major one.

@F150 : Thanks. I agree about the maintenance issue of a german which is why I was holding back. I have started looking at Pre-Owned Accord/Camrys now. I did TD both the Duster and Ecosport and while I (or rather my wife) did not like the interiors of the Duster as well as handling in City, the waiting period for an Ecosport is too long for me (9 months in Bangalore)

@drmohitg, @ harishpr : I agree about the maintenance issue.

@E63 : I did look into the Superb but held back due service issues.

@baludharmarajan : Elantra is out of my budget. 12 is the max I can go to.

Thanks for the information/suggestions everyone. I have dropped the idea of a German. On the lookout for Camry/Accord (Pre-Owned). Please give me a pointer if you come across any good deal. Meanwhile, I will TD the Verna, Fiesta again and reconsider between the two and Vento. Will give the search for a pre-owned car a month before I go for a new car.

By the way, petrol or diesel considering Vento TDI is 1L more than the TSI which is a one time affair and the regular heartbreak of 25-27 rupees per litre more for petrol every time I fill up the tank. Though I know mathematically considering my usage it will be 4 years atleast before I start getting the benefits of diesel. But as I am likely to keep the car for 8 years or so, heart goes for diesel.
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Old 15th November 2013, 11:27   #18
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Default Re: New Vs Pre-Owned Car? Below 12L

If you still want to go the pre-owned route in the hopes of getting something a little more upmarket and premium, might I suggest that you stay away from the VAG unless you know a good dealer/service center.

Also, I know this is a little OT, but look for cars equipped with ESP since bigger cars come with bigger motors and the innate talent to keep their calm at higher speeds. Even if you never were the type to go above 60-80, once equipped with a larger car, you will find yourself cruising at speeds in excess of 120 very easily. Trust me, if anything were to go wrong at these speeds, there is a high likelihood that you would wish you had an electronic stability program. Reports even say that 33.33% of crashes that result in death in certain countries, could have been avoided with ESP. So unless you are a really experienced driver, do yourself a favor and chuck ideas of a Honda Accord, Civic, Octavia, Cruze etc Top-end Jetta/Laura make sense but be ready to deal with the A.S.S. experience

The dual clutch automatic Fiesta does come with a basic ESP system.

Cheers and good luck!

Last edited by IshaanIan : 15th November 2013 at 11:42.
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Old 15th November 2013, 12:02   #19
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Default Re: New Vs Pre-Owned Car? Below 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
If you still want to go the pre-owned route in the hopes of getting something a little more upmarket and premium, might I suggest that you stay away from the VAG unless you know a good dealer/service center.

Also, I know this is a little OT, but look for cars equipped with ESP since bigger cars come with bigger motors and the innate talent to keep their calm at higher speeds. Even if you never were the type to go above 60-80, once equipped with a larger car, you will find yourself cruising at speeds in excess of 120 very easily. Trust me, if anything were to go wrong at these speeds, there is a high likelihood that you would wish you had an electronic stability program. Reports even say that 33.33% of crashes that result in death in certain countries, could have been avoided with ESP. So unless you are a really experienced driver, do yourself a favor and chuck ideas of a Honda Accord, Civic, Octavia, Cruze etc Top-end Jetta/Laura make sense but be ready to deal with the A.S.S. experience

The dual clutch automatic Fiesta does come with a basic ESP system.

Cheers and good luck!
If thats the case, no one should by SWIFT, i20, VENTO, VERNA since these cars are capable of doing such speeds and dont have ESP.

ESP is a relatively new safety feature in the INDIAN market and most of the cars in the pre-owned sections don't have this.

Since new fiesta has ESP, he should buy it. That is a complete bias towards FIESTA.

I agree with you though on the importance of ESP. If I were the OP, ABS and AIRBAGS are my MUST HAVE and ESP would be NICE TO HAVE
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Old 15th November 2013, 12:02   #20
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Default Re: New Vs Pre-Owned Car? Below 12L

Only 1 car, Used Corolla Altis, would definitely meet all your requirements.
Especially the "Very low maintenance" part.
It definitely feels luxurious, drives decently & since you are planning to use it for long, Toyota is definitely the best bet.
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Old 15th November 2013, 12:11   #21
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Default Re: New Vs Pre-Owned Car? Below 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by F150 View Post
I agree with you though on the importance of ESP. If I were the OP, ABS and AIRBAGS are my MUST HAVE and ESP would be NICE TO HAVE
I agree, ABS and AIRBAGS must have and ESP nice to have definitely sums it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ank.nsit View Post
Only 1 car, Used Corolla Altis, would definitely meet all your requirements.
Especially the "Very low maintenance" part.
It definitely feels luxurious, drives decently & since you are planning to use it for long, Toyota is definitely the best bet.
Why not a used Camry. Given Toyota's reliability, should's used Camry be a good deal.

BTW I found a 2008 Camry in Bangalore, run 70k, asking price 9.5L, will come with a 1 year warranty from Nandi Toyota dealer. Is the price ok or too high?
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Old 15th November 2013, 12:19   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F150 View Post

If thats the case, no one should by SWIFT, i20, VENTO, VERNA since these cars are capable of doing such speeds and dont have ESP.

ESP is a relatively new safety feature in the INDIAN market and most of the cars in the pre-owned sections don't have this.

Since new fiesta has ESP, he should buy it. That is a complete bias towards FIESTA.

I agree with you though on the importance of ESP. If I were the OP, ABS and AIRBAGS are my MUST HAVE and ESP would be NICE TO HAVE
Hey I am not biased simply stating that if he were to go in for anything above 10l, then try and look out for esp since while a swift or even a Fiesta can do similar speeds, one might find himself doing high speeds more often in a car like the accord or jetta because the car feels more composed owing to more complex suspension and relaxed rpms and in such situations I would rather I was in the Jetta/laura thus when you are looking at a pre owned D1/D2 segment car, you ought to keep this in mind thats all. Also I feel that us Indians ought to get more from 15+ lakh cars than just a premium feel. Safety is a very important factor and bringing it up does not mean I am being unjust to other cars.
The Fiesta having esp is something I just felt I ought to point out thats all because along with the polo tsi it is one of the few cars that offer this in that price.
Please read what I posted carefully.

Last edited by IshaanIan : 15th November 2013 at 12:24.
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Old 15th November 2013, 12:31   #23
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Default Re: New Vs Pre-Owned Car? Below 12L

Well @ approximately 12 lakhs you can explore a huge market of Pre-Worshipped vehicles. Since in the initial post you had also mentioned about some SUV's as well, you could also give XUV a shot. W8's would have good safety features as well. Very well maintained and fairly recent one's will be available at that price point.
And if you can really take a plunge, a pre-worshipped Laura would also be a great bet.
Frankly, if I were you and had a liberty of spending 12 big ones on a pre-worshipped car, I would go bonkers
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Old 15th November 2013, 13:34   #24
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Default Re: New Vs Pre-Owned Car? Below 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpraveenkr View Post
Liked Linea but not an option due service issues.

And now I had to get confused with a brilliant idea that why not go for a Pre-Owned Audi A4/BMW 3 series. Both within my budget of <12L in the 2006-08 vintage.

My requirements :

d) Low Maintenance (Very)
h) Mileage (who in India wouldn't want that!)
My my! Such confusion! For what?

If you're the sort of person who is concerned about "Low Maintenance (Very)", then why even look at a 2nd hand German/European spec sedan?

You want peace of mind, and you want to keep the car for a long time, resale is obviously not an issue for you, then why are you considering a car from a spectrum that has well known reliability concerns and expensive service costs? Be at peace. Get a new car. Period. Manufacturer provided warranty, assured service from the dealer, the brand-new car feel, peace of mind factor, all these things don't come with a 2nd hand car. No matter how good the Merc/BMW/Audi dealer or car is.
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Old 15th November 2013, 13:35   #25
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Default Re: New Vs Pre-Owned Car? Below 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpraveenkr View Post
Why not a used Camry. Given Toyota's reliability, should's used Camry be a good deal.

BTW I found a 2008 Camry in Bangalore, run 70k, asking price 9.5L, will come with a 1 year warranty from Nandi Toyota dealer. Is the price ok or too high?
I would recommend an Accord. The Camry certainly is more exclusive and way more comfy. BUT, it is an import so the parts will be way more expensive. Also, if you were to go for an auto-box version, the Honda's is way more intuitive and quicker and it is still quite the barge
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Old 15th November 2013, 13:47   #26
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Default Re: New Vs Pre-Owned Car? Below 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpraveenkr View Post

My requirements :
a) Comfort - Esp seat adjustments (I am 6ft, my wife 5'2")
b) Easy to drive - My wife will be the primary user though I am the weekend chauffeur
c) Build Quality
d) Low Maintenance (Very)
e) Handling
g) Power/Response - for city driving
h) Mileage (who in India wouldn't want that!)


a) Hyundai Verna/upcoming Honda City
b) Hyundai Verna/upcoming city
c) Rapid/Vento/Honda's pretty decent too(but not in european class[/b]
d) Hyundai/Maruti
e) Rapid/Vento/maybe city to an extent(if they dont give the weedy tyres again
g) For city driving, the hyundai/honda should do it
h) Any Maruti/Hyundai/Honda

Most of your requirements are met by the Japs/Koreans, why bother with the Europeans.

And yours is a classic dilemma of the best suited car for your needs vs. the best(most expensive) car you can buy for your money and give an arm and length to maintain.

Last edited by E63 : 15th November 2013 at 13:50.
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Old 15th November 2013, 13:48   #27
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Default Re: New Vs Pre-Owned Car? Below 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpraveenkr View Post
Anyway after a lot of research, planning, TDs etc finally I shortlisted Vento Highline, Skoda Rapid, New Ford Fiesta and Verna in that order. Liked Linea but not an option due service issues.

For the monthly mileage mentioned, a petrol sedan would be ideal. I would suggest to check out the Vento TSI, or the Linea T-Jet (you mentioned service issues for Fiat, but I could see quite a few Fiat owners from Bangalore in the forum with happy service experience. Probably worth checking with some of them). The New Fiesta is a good option as well, but I believe a facelift maybe coming up soon, and would probably clear quite a few deficiencies of the current model. For that reason, you may get some good discounts on the Fiesta. Only Vento TSI and Fiesta AT gets ESC (Electronic Stability Control) in this segment.

If its diesel, Vento/Rapid TDI should be the front runners. On a side note, you can check if there are any offers on the Renault Fluence E2. This one is also due for a facelift, and hence could come up some good discounts (even then you may need to stretch a bit from the 12 lakhs cut-off).
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Old 15th November 2013, 14:05   #28
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Default Re: New Vs Pre-Owned Car? Below 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpraveenkr View Post
Why not a used Camry. Given Toyota's reliability, should's used Camry be a good deal.

BTW I found a 2008 Camry in Bangalore, run 70k, asking price 9.5L, will come with a 1 year warranty from Nandi Toyota dealer. Is the price ok or too high?
Camry would not be good on your mileage consideration. It being a segment higher will have comparatively higher maintenance costs.
Also, Camry being a relatively low seller might have spare parts availability issue.

Also, at 12L you should get a 2012 Altis with less than 20K on the odo & as you want to keep it for long, I would suggest you to go in lesser mileage & a newer car. 70,000 running I feel is bit on a higher side (though not from toyota standards).

Basically, It actually depends on how much cash can you spare/how much cash will you be willing to spend on maintenance costs etc in the future.

I feel that even in the case of lateral upgrades, one should not go more than 1 segment beyond his purchasing power, because in the longer run the running costs (fuel bill + services + maintenance + spare parts) have more weightage than the initial cost of the car.

Eg: A 1 lakh KM run santro, would have used up the fuel of approx worth Rs. 5 lakhs.
More than the cost of the car.
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Old 15th November 2013, 16:15   #29
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Default Re: New Vs Pre-Owned Car? Below 12L

For a 12L budget since peace of mind seems to be of such importance to you, I would suggest buying a new car, with zero dep insurance. Even if the Japs are relatively cheaper to maintain, parts cost is still very expensive and can be a shocker in case of (God forbid) accident or other damage. Would be mighty tough for you to find any used example where zero dep is still applicable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
Also, I know this is a little OT, but look for cars equipped with ESP since bigger cars come with bigger motors and the innate talent to keep their calm at higher speeds. Even if you never were the type to go above 60-80, once equipped with a larger car, you will find yourself cruising at speeds in excess of 120 very easily. Trust me, if anything were to go wrong at these speeds, there is a high likelihood that you would wish you had an electronic stability program. Reports even say that 33.33% of crashes that result in death in certain countries, could have been avoided with ESP.
Maybe this needs to be discussed somewhere else, but I'm pretty certain that for the kind of accidents that happen in India, ESP will not make a difference in majority ones, not more than 10% IMO. What you have quoted above might be true in other geographies though.
Someone please enlighten me if my understanding is incorrect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ank.nsit View Post
I feel that even in the case of lateral upgrades, one should not go more than 1 segment beyond his purchasing power, because in the longer run the running costs (fuel bill + services + maintenance + spare parts) have more weightage than the initial cost of the car.
A very sensible statement. Unfortunately given on a forum for petrol heads

Last edited by avisidhu : 15th November 2013 at 16:17.
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Old 15th November 2013, 17:17   #30
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Default Re: 10 lakh budget. New car, used car or wait and increase budget?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ank.nsit View Post
Camry would not be good on your mileage consideration. It being a segment higher will have comparatively higher maintenance costs.
Also, Camry being a relatively low seller might have spare parts availability issue.
Agreed

Quote:
I feel that even in the case of lateral upgrades, one should not go more than 1 segment beyond his purchasing power, because in the longer run the running costs (fuel bill + services + maintenance + spare parts) have more weightage than the initial cost of the car.

Eg: A 1 lakh KM run santro, would have used up the fuel of approx worth Rs. 5 lakhs.
More than the cost of the car.
Wise - totally agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
For the monthly mileage mentioned, a petrol sedan would be ideal. I would suggest to check out the Vento TSI, or the Linea T-Jet (you mentioned service issues for Fiat, but I could see quite a few Fiat owners from Bangalore in the forum with happy service experience. Probably worth checking with some of them).

If its diesel, Vento/Rapid TDI should be the front runners. On a side note, you can check if there are any offers on the Renault Fluence E2. This one is also due for a facelift, and hence could come up some good discounts (even then you may need to stretch a bit from the 12 lakhs cut-off).
Well my job entails me a transfer every 2-3 years, which is why, even if Fiat service in Bangalore is ok, it may not be so elsewhere - which is a concern since I have already spent half my tenure here.

As of now, I am leaning towards the Vento TDI. Couldn't lay my hands on a TSI for a test drive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by E63 View Post
a) Hyundai Verna/upcoming Honda City
b) Hyundai Verna/upcoming city
c) Rapid/Vento/Honda's pretty decent too(but not in european class[/b]
d) Hyundai/Maruti
e) Rapid/Vento/maybe city to an extent(if they dont give the weedy tyres again
g) For city driving, the hyundai/honda should do it
h) Any Maruti/Hyundai/Honda

Most of your requirements are met by the Japs/Koreans, why bother with the Europeans.

And yours is a classic dilemma of the best suited car for your needs vs. the best(most expensive) car you can buy for your money and give an arm and length to maintain.
The dilemma is true! Which is why I wanted all of your opinion to either get confused or clear the confusion once for all!!! My brother already has a Honda City which is why it is not an option. Been with maruti since 1998 (Alto 1.1/Baleno) and feel it is time for change. Driving comfort, personally felt the Verna is a bit too light for "my" liking, and as such did not find too much of difference between the Verna and Vento.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sourav9385 View Post
My my! Such confusion! For what?

If you're the sort of person who is concerned about "Low Maintenance (Very)", then why even look at a 2nd hand German/European spec sedan?

You want peace of mind, and you want to keep the car for a long time, resale is obviously not an issue for you, then why are you considering a car from a spectrum that has well known reliability concerns and expensive service costs? Be at peace. Get a new car. Period. Manufacturer provided warranty, assured service from the dealer, the brand-new car feel, peace of mind factor, all these things don't come with a 2nd hand car. No matter how good the Merc/BMW/Audi dealer or car is.
Thanks - I guess now I am leaning towards that. A new Vento TDI Highline.
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