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Old 6th February 2009, 14:18   #61
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You need support staff? We have a Bolero club going we can end up there in 15-16 Bolero's to give them a scare.

haha! Thats amazing! Where is the Bolero Club? Right here on TBHP? I would love to sign on. Is it the BBC? Rakesh aka RockyB introduced me to that but I havent yet done anything about it.

All these dealerships think they can take us consumers for a ride at any given time. I was absolutely filled with rage when I read the post on cheating on road tax. I am almost convinced about taking a friend and a mobile camera along to confront India Garage and Sireesh about the difference and then beam it on Youtube/CNN IBN!

God...we cannot even buy a new car legally and with peace of mind in this country.
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Old 10th February 2009, 11:53   #62
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Default DI Invader 4wd or Bolero SLE?

Now, if someone offers me a 4wd better looking Bolero - Will I say no? I have to be daft, no?

Well, I have been pouring a few hours of reading into the 4wd Invader, and a couple of folks on T-BHP mentioned that there were discounts ranging to about 50k on the DI Invader mid-last year. They also mention that those discounts could still be available. Worth a try.

The DI Invader 4WD with discounts works out to about 5.6L OTR as mentioned in the thread listed below. I am trying to get verification of this number today.

The Bolero SLE DI 2WD works out to 6.5L OTR. I save about 1L in the midst (assuming the discounts are still available). See here: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-of...tml#post799332

Now, the Invader does not come with Power steering nor AC. I should be able to retro-fit the power steering (of Koyo make?) which a couple of people here have voted for. More detailed research into that is pending. Fitting a good AC is easy, considering the dash board is the same as the regular bolero - vents et all, so no worries. I would also be keen on setting up a fiber top in place of the soft top.

I do understand that PS is not suited for hard core offroading. I will not be using this vehicle for offroading hard core, since I have a 3B and do intend to keep her.

Can all this be done within a range of a 100,000 Indian rupees? PS + AC + Fiber Top? Wouldnt the PS fitment ensure my warranty is void? That is my biggest worry. Should I be worried?
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Old 10th February 2009, 11:56   #63
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Can all this be done within a range of a 100,000 Indian rupees? PS + AC + Fiber Top? Wouldnt the PS fitment ensure my warranty is void? That is my biggest worry. Should I be worried?
I think PS fitment will definitely make the warranty void.
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Old 10th February 2009, 12:10   #64
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Now, if someone offers me a 4wd better looking Bolero - Will I say no? I have to be daft, no?
You have a 3B why do you want a 4WD?

I was in the same situation, have a Classic needed a shell. Got a 2WD Bolero.

Quote:
The DI Invader 4WD with discounts works out to about 5.6L OTR.

The Bolero SLE DI 2WD works out to 6.5L OTR.

Now, the Invader does not come with Power steering nor AC.
The Invader rattles a bit(i am being nice) and the engine noise especially of the DI Turbo can be heard two blocks down the street. Imagine sitting in a softop with that engine. The noise deadening done in the Bolero SLE and others is much more then in the Invader. There is no padding on the firewall or on the bonnet.

The rear seats in the Invader are useless. Be ready to lose some friends who are made to sit there.

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I will not be using this vehicle for offroading hard core, since I have a 3B and do intend to keep her.
A 2WD Bolero is good enough for well jumping over the occassional bad road. But get into the wet and loose traction you will be spinning your wheels the whole day and the next. A good wooden plank or some rubber mats would do the trick.

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Can all this be done within a range of a 100,000 Indian rupees? PS + AC + Fiber Top? Wouldnt the PS fitment ensure my warranty is void? That is my biggest worry. Should I be worried?
Yes.

Can be done, your warranty is gone though. Warranty hardly matters, you wont have to use it.

Get an SLE. Fix a tow hook where the rear step is. Fabricate a loadbed and carry your 3B to the next OTR.

Just dont cross any state borders, the RTO guys will feed off you.
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Old 10th February 2009, 13:02   #65
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Can all this be done within a range of a 100,000 Indian rupees? PS + AC + Fiber Top? Wouldnt the PS fitment ensure my warranty is void?
Red, it's not worth the hassle!
You'd have paid a lot more than the difference in terms of your own time & effort.
At the end of it all, the reliability & finesse of NEW will be missing! Too many hands will have felt it, LOL!
Go for the new Bolero.
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Old 10th February 2009, 13:05   #66
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Yeah, kind of settling in that groove now. The OTR of the Invader works out to 6,03, and change and there are apparently no discounts. Its definitely not worth considering without an additional 50k off the price tag.
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Old 10th February 2009, 19:41   #67
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Yeah, kind of settling in that groove now. The OTR of the Invader works out to 6,03, and change and there are apparently no discounts. Its definitely not worth considering without an additional 50k off the price tag.
Dear Red Liner,
It was real fun reading your thread and also very informative for all those potential buyers of an offroader.
Just inquisitive, why was Gypsy not on your list? Any specific reason?
Cheers,
Deepak
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Old 11th February 2009, 09:48   #68
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Default Food for Thought

Hey Redliner,

Just a small point for your consideration. In Karnataka, any car for more than 6 Lacs invoice value attracts 14.2% Road Tax . Else its only 8 or 9%.
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Old 11th February 2009, 13:09   #69
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Dear Red Liner,
It was real fun reading your thread and also very informative for all those potential buyers of an offroader.
Just inquisitive, why was Gypsy not on your list? Any specific reason?
Cheers,
Deepak
Thanks Deepak. I wasnt technically looking for an offroader, since I already had a CJ3B. Now the Gypsy definitely did figure in my consideration because:

1. An older gypsy is cheap
2. Keep my on road mileage to 800-1000 kms a month to make it affordable on road (as also I cannot p*ss petrol yet)
3. You guessed it, I am cheap.
4. A Gypsy is always a good looker. Period.

However, the ride on the gypsy is horrible. After having Test driven the Bolero, I kind of made myself understand that comfort is reasonably important - for me and for my passengers. Plus trying to restrain myself to 800 kms a month is stupid, since I also realised that I like to travel (Eureka moment eh?). Since a King is quite expensive at about 3-3.5L, that was out of the question. Having another offroader as apart from the 3B I already own, made a lot of my pals here and outside of here question my greying intelligence.

So, that was why the Gypsy was out. Probably makes sense as a good secondary hard core offroader (like my jeep) or like what Shahnawaz has transitioned to recently after picking up a dirt cheap Palio S10 (he dare not say I am cheap now!).

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Originally Posted by MileCruncher View Post
Hey Redliner,

Just a small point for your consideration. In Karnataka, any car for more than 6 Lacs invoice value attracts 14.2% Road Tax . Else its only 8 or 9%.
Thats interesting Mile cruncher. When you say Invoice value you mean ex-showroom price, dont you? That pretty much covers most Bolero versions. Please correct me if I am wrong.
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Old 11th February 2009, 14:09   #70
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...Just inquisitive, why was Gypsy not on your list? Any specific reason? ..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
.... Now the Gypsy definitely did figure in my consideration because:

1. An older gypsy is cheap
2. Keep my on road mileage to 800-1000 kms a month to make it affordable on road (as also I cannot p*ss petrol yet)
3. You guessed it, I am cheap.
4. A Gypsy is always a good looker. Period.

However, the ride on the gypsy is horrible. ....Since a King is quite expensive at about 3-3.5L, that was out of the question. ...

So, that was why the Gypsy was out. ....
Deepak, You want to know the real reason?

He wouldn't be seen dead driving a Gypsy. PERIOD.

The reasons he has mentioned above is just plain 'English'.

Hey venky, kidding bro. No offense meant to you or any Gypsy lover out here. I know what you 'really think' about the Gypsy.
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Old 11th February 2009, 14:30   #71
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Thats interesting Mile cruncher. When you say Invoice value you mean ex-showroom price, dont you? That pretty much covers most Bolero versions. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Well its the figure thats there on the invoice. Just spoke to GM-Sales of Bellary Motors, M&M dealer in Bellary and got to know that Mahindra has unofficially cut Bolero DI prices by 55k and CRDe prices by 42k from 22nd Jan to accomodate the launch of xylo. Since VLX is for 6.42 in Bellary/Karnataka, SLE and SLX should definitely be just below 6 Lacs. If you are not getting your car financed, then ask the dealer to show the discount on the invoice thereby reducing the vehicle price. This should take the vehicle price below 6 Lacs and then you can claim cheaper Road Tax. PM me if you need further clarity.

Cheers
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Old 11th February 2009, 14:38   #72
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Interesting thread. I did drop in when you created this thread (thanks to the title), but then moved on and now when I am back, the thread is 5 pages long, with a decision still pending. Which seemed strange for someone who has 'been there, done that' and to top it all, has owned 3 Fiats, when most guys would think 1 ownership enough for a lifetime.

Your signature says : Off-road: '59 Willy's 4WD | Track Day: '87 Jawa 350 Twin | Groceries: ?

As I understand it, you have your passions covered, but want a car for the mundane stuff. If say, you had created this thread to identify a bike for mundane stuff, I doubt whether you would go in for an RD350 or a Bullet. For all practical purposes, a 100-150cc new-gen bike would be the best fit, because the fun-to-ride part is already covered by the Jawa.

By the same logic, I would think anything Jeep-like must be a no-no. So, found it surprising that you are looking at a Bolero/Scorpio etc. Since you already have a nice Jeep for off-roading, adding another of the same ilk (even if 2WD) does not seem logical to me - but then the money is yours, so your logic applies.

Since you ruled out small cars, I would think a used Esteem, Baleno, City, Accent etc should have done just fine to cater to the mundane. Or if you wanted new & Diesel, maybe a Dzire (yeah, the rear sucks, but look how MSIL is struggling to keep up with demand) or the Ikon-TDCi should be good bets.

Would watch this thread for what you finally go for.
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Old 11th February 2009, 14:46   #73
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Thats interesting Mile cruncher. When you say Invoice value you mean ex-showroom price, dont you? That pretty much covers most Bolero versions. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Invoice value is total cost of ownership of vehicle which includes, registration, insurance, delivery charges etc.
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Old 11th February 2009, 15:39   #74
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Hey venky, kidding bro. No offense meant to you or any Gypsy lover out here. I know what you 'really think' about the Gypsy.
I still cock a sneak peek when-ever I see a good looking Gypsy out on the streets. Its as butch as you can get.

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Well its the figure thats there on the invoice. Just spoke to GM-Sales of Bellary Motors, M&M dealer in Bellary and got to know that Mahindra has unofficially cut Bolero DI prices by 55k and CRDe prices by 42k from 22nd Jan to accomodate the launch of xylo. Since VLX is for 6.42 in Bellary/Karnataka, SLE and SLX should definitely be just below 6 Lacs. If you are not getting your car financed, then ask the dealer to show the discount on the invoice thereby reducing the vehicle price. This should take the vehicle price below 6 Lacs and then you can claim cheaper Road Tax. PM me if you need further clarity.

Cheers
VLX On road price for 6.42 Lakhs?!! That is insane! India Garage, Sireesh, and Vijai Auto all quote 7.7 Lakhs OTR for the VLX here, and 6.5 Lakhs for the SLE DI. Add another 60G on top of the SLE for the price of the SLX. I have a good feeling you are talking about the Ex-showroom prices.

And yes, you are talking about Ex-Showroom prices. Just walked out of my cabin to get hold of the Bolero Price List from India Garage dated 24th Jan 2009.

This is how it looks for the VLX CRDE Bolero:

Ex Showroom/Invoice Price: 646,624
Road tax: 92,467 (its between 14 and 14.5%). I need to check the exact % because it does not seem to add up to what you mention...
And other things to total: 769,XXX.

The SLE Bolero:
Ex Showroom/Invoice Price: 545,547
Road tax: 78,013 (and this comes to the same 14-14.5%!). So something is amiss here. If you are right, then India Garage is blatantly wrong. We need to run an RTO confirmation on this.

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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Interesting thread. I did drop in when you created this thread (thanks to the title), but then moved on and now when I am back, the thread is 5 pages long, with a decision still pending. Which seemed strange for someone who has 'been there, done that' and to top it all, has owned 3 Fiats, when most guys would think 1 ownership enough for a lifetime.
Hey hey, come on now, I owned three absolutely different FIAT's. A Red 1.2 Sports, which had a lot of memories for me and my Ex was very sad when I sold her off. A pocket rocket S10 which I dont have to say anything about. And ofcourse a Petra Diesel, which was a superb car in its own right. But yes, I did consider that I had better start looking beyond FIAT's now.

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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Your signature says : Off-road: '59 Willy's 4WD | Track Day: '87 Jawa 350 Twin | Groceries: ?

As I understand it, you have your passions covered, but want a car for the mundane stuff. If say, you had created this thread to identify a bike for mundane stuff, I doubt whether you would go in for an RD350 or a Bullet. For all practical purposes, a 100-150cc new-gen bike would be the best fit, because the fun-to-ride part is already covered by the Jawa.

By the same logic, I would think anything Jeep-like must be a no-no. So, found it surprising that you are looking at a Bolero/Scorpio etc. Since you already have a nice Jeep for off-roading, adding another of the same ilk (even if 2WD) does not seem logical to me - but then the money is yours, so your logic applies.
My logic was just that I needed a car for the city, and if I get something good to take out on the highway as well, why not? Add to that Diesel costs, and higher GC to take on bad roads. You cant go wrong now. ofcourse, a used car in this segment was out, since most of them would be abused or over priced.

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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Since you ruled out small cars, I would think a used Esteem, Baleno, City, Accent etc should have done just fine to cater to the mundane. Or if you wanted new & Diesel, maybe a Dzire (yeah, the rear sucks, but look how MSIL is struggling to keep up with demand) or the Ikon-TDCi should be good bets.
An Accent CRDI would have done nicely. But the prices are just not justified. I cannot see myself paying 4 Lakhs for a Diesel Accent thats done over 70k on the road. God. Dont get me started on the Dzire. The Ikon looks like a piece of....hmmm...c*** (cake for Ikon lovers, crap for the others).

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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Would watch this thread for what you finally go for.
For sure.

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Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
Invoice value is total cost of ownership of vehicle which includes, registration, insurance, delivery charges etc.
Nope. See my note above. Invoice value is just the ex-showroom price. Technically, you can buy the vehicle for the ex-showroom price and do all the other registration work yourself to get it on the road. Or it will have to stand in your own showroom.
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Old 11th February 2009, 16:40   #75
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Originally Posted by MileCruncher View Post
Well its the figure thats there on the invoice. Just spoke to GM-Sales of Bellary Motors, M&M dealer in Bellary and got to know that Mahindra has unofficially cut Bolero DI prices by 55k and CRDe prices by 42k from 22nd Jan to accomodate the launch of xylo. Since VLX is for 6.42 in Bellary/Karnataka, SLE and SLX should definitely be just below 6 Lacs. If you are not getting your car financed, then ask the dealer to show the discount on the invoice thereby reducing the vehicle price. This should take the vehicle price below 6 Lacs and then you can claim cheaper Road Tax. PM me if you need further clarity.

Cheers
Got the answer for this now. The Life time road tax is 13% for new vehicles to be registered that is between 5L and 10L. It is 12% for vehicles under 5L. Both of them have to be under 5 square metres in size/floor area. For Vehicles more than 10L, it goes up to 16%.

See page 9 of: http://rto.kar.nic.in/TaxaAmen2008.pdf

I doubt this has reduced the levels you talk about. Still 13% does not match the rates provided by India Garage or the others. There is yet again a difference of 8-10k.
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