A real dilemma New Big Sedan + Old SUV or New SUV + new small sedan - Team-BHP

adithyav · 12th June 2009, 12:45

Ok everyone,

Here is the story. My family has a 1999 Toyota Prado TZ (3.0 turbo-diesel) and we also had a Honda Accord which we bought in 2004). The Prado needs a fair bit of work done to it including a complete suspension overhaul, tyre change and possibly an interior overhaul.

The Accord got totaled a couple of months back and we were told by the Honda people that we have two options a) we get it fixed for 6lakhs or b) we give whatever is left of the car back to them for 6 lakhs. We decided to go for the latter option and get the money and then look for something new and we had to choose between keeping the Prado and getting it fixed and getting another car, or selling that as well and getting an SUV.

This is where the problem lies. Our budget is still in the range of 20-25 lakhs (including the Prado overhaul cost). We aren't sure if

1) We should totally redo the Prado and get it a new paint job, custom interiors, ICE and the works. That way we can keep it for the next 4-5 years without a problem (at which point my dad wants to go in for a luxury SUV like an Audi Q7). And for now go in for a lower range sedan like the ANHC or a premium hatch like the Jazz to complement the SUV for doing stuff like grocery shopping etc.

2) We should fix up what is absolutely necessary in the Prado (suspension, tyres etc) and buy a luxury sedan like the new Accord V6 or a second hand BMW 5-series (close to the upper end of the budget)

3) Sell the Prado (we got an offer for 4-5 lakhs) and then spending a bit more and getting a current SUV like a Captiva or a C-RV (something within 25lakhs). We decided that this was NOT a good option because no vehicle right now would offer the interior space or the high powered diesel or the road presence of our existing Prado(even the current prado is smaller). Also, we wouldn't have the convenience of having two vehicles.

4) Not likely but another option being looked at is the possiblity of selling the Prado as well and going in for a second hand luxury SUV like the Q7.

5) Last and my least favorite option. Sell the Prado, get an Innova for the space (and comfort for long drives) and another small car to complement. My dad and I would definitely not want this option even though my mom suggested it because of the practicality.

So right now, I'm looking for some kind of advice (any advice at all) for what we should do

. There are wayy too many possibilities, each with their pros and cons and I feel like this forum is the best place to get help/advice.

I've listed below some of the main requirements so that it might make things easier.

Cars short listed -- None but Hondas are favoured because we love the refinement

Price range -- max 25 lakhs but if something special comes along then it could be flexed a little further (like a second hand Q7 for 30-35 lakhs)

Maintenance & After Sales Service (A.S.S.) expectations -- has to be decent. I've read enough horror stories about Skoda so preferably not something that bad. We've had a decent experience with Honda thus far so preferably as good as, if not better than that

Average distance traveled per month -- ranges between 2000-3000km

Where car will be mostly used (city / highway / rough roads etc) -- city and highway. Extremely rarely on rough roads except on the rare occassion that we plan to go to someplace like Badrinath

Chauffer driven / self driven -- both, we have a chauffeur but if the car is fun to drive my dad would not let him drive.

Whether the vehicle will be shared by other members of family -- It will be either my dad or me in terms of driving. It will be used by all members though.

Any specific requirements from car (ex. Better luggage space, responsive engine, rear seat comfort)
Rear Seat Legroom, Width and Comfort are all EXTREMELY IMPORTANT.
This is primarily because if the entire family is travelling it will be my mom, dad and brother in the rear seat.

Responsive Engine is also an important aspect. It has to be at least moderately fun to drive and not bore you.

In case of the SUV, a 7 seater is preferred. Also, for any option, iPod compatibility would be desirable but it isn't a deal breaker.

How long you intend on keeping this car (and how important resale is to you) -- Depending on the option, 3-5 years and resale is fairly important (it shouldn't depreciate to like a 10th of its value in that time)

GTO · 12th June 2009, 15:41

Firstly, that's a well-written "What car" query. Welcome aboard!

I'd go with option no.2. Selling your Prado for 5 lakhs doesn't make sense, as no other SUV, even for 4 times the money will give you that kind of torque, reliability, offroadability and image.

I say get the Prado refurbished...you've obviously owned this SUV for long and know its history inside out. Prado's are built to last forever. You could easily extract another 4 - 5 years out of the Prado, without losing too much in resale.

As an addition to the garage, how about a brand new Accord? You mention "Rear Seat Legroom, Width and Comfort are all EXTREMELY IMPORTANT". Not only is the new Accord much larger / comfortable than even the E Class & 5 series, but it is a massive step ahead (in comfort) compared to your '04.

A Prado + Accord : Perfect combination.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adithyav

The Prado needs a fair bit of work done to it including a complete suspension overhaul, tyre change and possibly an interior overhaul.

That's hardly any work for a 10 year old car.

Quote:

we get it fixed for 6lakhs or b) we give whatever is left of the car back to them for 6 lakhs.

The insurance / residual value of a 4 year old Accord has surely got to be more than only 6 lakhs. Why didn't you claim a total loss with your insurance company?

Dante · 12th June 2009, 23:17

That's one huge post.
yes GTO is right. Go with option 2. Rework on your Prado. Its one gem of a car. And i'd say get a Nissan Teana, or a VW Passat. Well a skoda superb is also good. And yes all the cars that I mentioned have huge rear seat legroom more that E class. And are not so often seen.
Don't buy any second hand bmw, coz u have to shell out more money, rather save your bucks as it is your wish to own a Audi Q7 in future. I hope it helps.

MileCruncher · 13th June 2009, 09:20

@adithyav: Is the mileage of 3k/month combined of both cars or of each car. If its each car, then I think You should definitely be looking at diesel and the choices are Laura, Jetta, Passat and Superb and BMW 320d, C220CDI. IIRC there are no other diesel powered sedans in that segment.

Option 2 as suggested by GTO is the best bet for you.

Cheers and Happy Motoring!

ashthedivx · 13th June 2009, 09:55

Another vote for option 2.

As said, your accord was crashed immensely. I would suggest to pickup a safe car this time i.e. Jetta. Though it belongs to Skoda group but still it would a nice addition looking at safety features provided.

adithyav · 13th June 2009, 10:30

Thanks for the responses everyone. Seems like the unanimous choice is option two which is what my dad and I were considering as well

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTO

I say get the Prado refurbished...you've obviously owned this SUV for long and know its history inside out. Prado's are built to last forever. You could easily extract another 4 - 5 years out of the Prado, without losing too much in resale.

A Prado + Accord : Perfect combination.

The insurance / residual value of a 4 year old Accord has surely got to be more than only 6 lakhs. Why didn't you claim a total loss with your insurance company?

@GTO -- I agree that its a perfect combination as it is something we've already had and we loved it

As for the insurance value of the Accord. That's all the insurance company is giving us for a total loss. We bought it at 14L and they calculated the depreciation at 15% per year over the last 5 years so that amount is all we are getting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MileCruncher

@adithyav: Is the mileage of 3k/month combined of both cars or of each car.

@MileCruncher -- The mileage is more for the Prado actually. The Sedan will primarily be doing rounds to my dad's office and when we're in the mood for an extremely comfy long drive. So petrol or diesel is not an issue in this case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashthedivx

Another vote for option 2.

As said, your accord was crashed immensely. I would suggest to pickup a safe car this time i.e. Jetta. Though it belongs to Skoda group but still it would a nice addition looking at safety features provided.

@ashthedivx -- Even if a Skoda or a VW were as safe as Fort Knox, my dad wouldn't go near them as a colleague of his has had bad experiences with both the Octavia and the Passat in terms of A.S.S. Add to that the horror stories I've read here and the fact that these aren't all that much fun to drive and that puts the VWs and the Skodas off our list.

@ Everyone -- A few things.

1) In terms of the Accord -- What exactly is the difference between the 2.4 and the V6? My dad wants a car that is fun to drive so he was considering the V6 but the fuel economy and the fact that the price is at the maximum limit of out budget is putting him off.

2) One more option being considered is this -- Go in for a car that is one segment lower like the Corolla which we've heard is the most spacious in its class (mainly to be used as a chauffeur driven car -- suggestions are welcome). And then do an extensive refurbish of the Prado with the extra money that is left over and enjoy it for years to come.

3) Any suggestions for refurbishing the prado? Especially the interiors? Right now the seats thanks to years of use have become hard and rather uncomfortable over long distances so we're considering redoing them.

My dad was thinking of getting captain seats for the middle row. If you know of anyone who does car interiors (in Delhi or Gurgaon) then feel free to let me know.

3) One last thing -- My dad was driving the old accord when it crashed (head-on) and shockingly the passenger airbag deployed but the driver one didn't and the reason my dad came out with nothing more than a bruised shoulder (and minus one car) is because of the seatbelt (which is what caused the bruise). We were considering taking this up with Honda but we aren't sure how to go about it. We wrote to Honda Japan and they said something to the effect of "sorry for the inconvenience" and "take it up with Honda India". Any suggestions for what to do about this will also be appreciated.

4) Sorry if my posts are too long, but I just want things to be clear so that you guys know precisely what is going on and what our needs are. Thanks

Gagan.js · 13th June 2009, 11:43

Wait for the fortuner? The road presence might not be prado like but hey, it's a great car! It seats seven, looks good, and you get the piece of mind since its supposed to run for years without any troubles, toyota reliability, it might be in the 20L range though.

So then you will have say 10L left, a second hand accord comes at that price right? :o

sammyboy · 13th June 2009, 11:47

I would suggest option 2 from the 2nd post i.e. get the Prado refurbished and buy a Corolla AT/MT depending on your choice. You get everything you need without exceeding your budget. Infact, thats the first thing that struck me when i read your first post.

geeash · 13th June 2009, 14:40

The second option looks logical.

Since you are the owner of prado, You must be knowing the state of the car accurately. Will the build definitely last for 4-5years?. Because spending huge lakhs on refurbishing and then if the things under the hood goes down the drain then you are back to square one.
I would also suggest corolla altis/ civic too in case you plan to keep the prado

as for the difference between v6 and 2.4

Quote:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...accord-v6.html (Honda Accord VTi vs Honda Accord V6)

adithyav · 14th June 2009, 19:14

Thanks for the replies everyone.

So we checked with the Toyota people who are going to do the overhaul of the car and got an estimate for 3 lakhs for all the work including redoing the seat foam and leather. So most probably we are going to go ahead with that and get it done.

Now we just need to decide on the second car whether it is a Corolla or a 2.4 Accord depending on the budget and what we end up liking in the end.

Caramelo · 15th June 2009, 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by adithyav

Thanks for the replies everyone.

So we checked with the Toyota people who are going to do the overhaul of the car and got an estimate for 3 lakhs for all the work including redoing the seat foam and leather. So most probably we are going to go ahead with that and get it done.

Now we just need to decide on the second car whether it is a Corolla or a 2.4 Accord depending on the budget and what we end up liking in the end.

you have an SUV which is gonna get re-done. now you need a good sedan. toyota carolla or city wont do. i think image is also important to you. the best pick i think is the new honda accord. dont go for V6. its just expensive and will put pressure on budget. save those few lacs for AUDI Q7. you will get good resale value when you sell this accord after a few years. your long term plan is to get an audi Q7 then plan around it. the few lacs you save now will help it further in your target i think. and accord will sell at a better price than any SUV.

i have seen dime a dozen rovers and Q7 in ahmedabad but havent seen a prado in years that something special. keep it and get it pimped.

lamborghini · 15th June 2009, 11:47

Hey,

Since you have decided on option 2, and are getting the Prado done up, here is what I think for the second car.
Since it is going to be chauffeur driven, with you dad driving it at times, think about the new Sonata. It is priced between the Accord and the Corolla, comes with a nice and powerful diesel, has nice interiors, quite roomy, etc.

Put whatever cash is leftover as a down payment for your new high end SUV a few years down the line.

GTO · 15th June 2009, 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by adithyav

We bought it at 14L and they calculated the depreciation at 15% per year over the last 5 years so that amount is all we are getting.

My bad, I forgot the older Accord was so much cheaper

. The new Accord is in the range of 18 - 19 lakhs.

Quote:

What exactly is the difference between the 2.4 and the V6?

The V6 is a stonker, but terribly overpriced (6.xx lakh premium over the I-4). Search this forum for a driving impression. You are better off with the 2.4.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adithyav

So we checked with the Toyota people who are going to do the overhaul of the car and got an estimate for 3 lakhs for all the work including redoing the seat foam and leather. So most probably we are going to go ahead with that and get it done.

I don't think it's a good idea to send a 10 year old car to an authorised outlet, especially when refurb'ing costs 60% of the market value!! I suggest looking out for some specialist independent garage.

adithyav · 15th June 2009, 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caramelo

i have seen dime a dozen rovers and Q7 in ahmedabad but havent seen a prado in years that something special. keep it and get it pimped.

Yea, that is something I have noticed lately as well. There was a time a couple of years back when there were many Prados going around Delhi but now I barely see any. The car's road presence is unmatched right now and yes I will get it "pimped"

Quote:

Originally Posted by lamborghini

think about the new Sonata. It is priced between the Accord and the Corolla, comes with a nice and powerful diesel, has nice interiors, quite roomy, etc.

We totally did not consider the Sonata until now. Will take a look at it for sure. Thanks

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTO

The V6 is a stonker, but terribly overpriced (6.xx lakh premium over the I-4). Search this forum for a driving impression. You are better off with the 2.4.

I don't think it's a good idea to send a 10 year old car to an authorised outlet, especially when refurb'ing costs 60% of the market value!! I suggest looking out for some specialist independent garage.

If we go for the accord, it will be the 2.4. I think the price difference is too much for a more powerful engine and that too one with an autobox.

And as for the Prado refurb. The people we are going to are Lakozy Motors in Okhla who specialize in imported toyotas. We get our car serviced once in every 2-3 months by a guy from lakozy who actually comes to our place.

If anyone knows of any specialist independent garage, then please do let me know ASAP because I am willing to consider the alternatives if it means things could work out cheaper.

Also, lastly I wanted to know what you guys think about this deal. In the classifieds section, one Team-BHP member is selling his 1995 BMW E36 for 8 lakhs. The reason why I am looking at this is because I know this is supposed to be a real fun to drive car and also he's just had the car completely redone (except for the engine) by autopsyche last month. I know the space won't be anywhere near that of even the Corolla but I just wanted to know what you guys think.

There is even a thread on the car here : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...d-bmw-e36.html (my newly restored BMW E36)

Once again, thanks for the advice everyone

indiandevil · 16th June 2009, 14:26

IMHO, I would go with Option 2, but instead get a middle of your price bracket Volkswagen Passat. 2 reasons, 1. Accord V6 in India is not a good option, from personal experience I know for a fact that the car is thirsty, has sub-standard interiors and is awful to drive. The used beemer is a good option, but then again you have the possibility of getting a car that has had previous problems, and you will probably look at the 520d, which has the worst engine in the BMW 5 series line-up. 2. Becuase, the Passat uses a 4 cylinder 2.0 Turbo which is better on fuel efficiency and has very good mid-range power. The seats are leather standars and the interiors are contemporary. I am sure you can get the detalied facts on each cars India specific website. Nevertheless, this is ONLY my opinion.

12th June 2009, 12:45	#1 (permalink)
adithyav BHPian Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: New Delhi Posts: 29	A real dilemma New Big Sedan + Old SUV or New SUV + new small sedan Ok everyone, Here is the story. My family has a 1999 Toyota Prado TZ (3.0 turbo-diesel) and we also had a Honda Accord which we bought in 2004). The Prado needs a fair bit of work done to it including a complete suspension overhaul, tyre change and possibly an interior overhaul. The Accord got totaled a couple of months back and we were told by the Honda people that we have two options a) we get it fixed for 6lakhs or b) we give whatever is left of the car back to them for 6 lakhs. We decided to go for the latter option and get the money and then look for something new and we had to choose between keeping the Prado and getting it fixed and getting another car, or selling that as well and getting an SUV. This is where the problem lies. Our budget is still in the range of 20-25 lakhs (including the Prado overhaul cost). We aren't sure if 1) We should totally redo the Prado and get it a new paint job, custom interiors, ICE and the works. That way we can keep it for the next 4-5 years without a problem (at which point my dad wants to go in for a luxury SUV like an Audi Q7). And for now go in for a lower range sedan like the ANHC or a premium hatch like the Jazz to complement the SUV for doing stuff like grocery shopping etc. 2) We should fix up what is absolutely necessary in the Prado (suspension, tyres etc) and buy a luxury sedan like the new Accord V6 or a second hand BMW 5-series (close to the upper end of the budget) 3) Sell the Prado (we got an offer for 4-5 lakhs) and then spending a bit more and getting a current SUV like a Captiva or a C-RV (something within 25lakhs). We decided that this was NOT a good option because no vehicle right now would offer the interior space or the high powered diesel or the road presence of our existing Prado(even the current prado is smaller). Also, we wouldn't have the convenience of having two vehicles. 4) Not likely but another option being looked at is the possiblity of selling the Prado as well and going in for a second hand luxury SUV like the Q7. 5) Last and my least favorite option. Sell the Prado, get an Innova for the space (and comfort for long drives) and another small car to complement. My dad and I would definitely not want this option even though my mom suggested it because of the practicality. So right now, I'm looking for some kind of advice (any advice at all) for what we should do . There are wayy too many possibilities, each with their pros and cons and I feel like this forum is the best place to get help/advice. I've listed below some of the main requirements so that it might make things easier. Cars short listed -- None but Hondas are favoured because we love the refinement Price range -- max 25 lakhs but if something special comes along then it could be flexed a little further (like a second hand Q7 for 30-35 lakhs) Maintenance & After Sales Service (A.S.S.) expectations -- has to be decent. I've read enough horror stories about Skoda so preferably not something that bad. We've had a decent experience with Honda thus far so preferably as good as, if not better than that Average distance traveled per month -- ranges between 2000-3000km Where car will be mostly used (city / highway / rough roads etc) -- city and highway. Extremely rarely on rough roads except on the rare occassion that we plan to go to someplace like Badrinath Chauffer driven / self driven -- both, we have a chauffeur but if the car is fun to drive my dad would not let him drive. Whether the vehicle will be shared by other members of family -- It will be either my dad or me in terms of driving. It will be used by all members though. Any specific requirements from car (ex. Better luggage space, responsive engine, rear seat comfort) Rear Seat Legroom, Width and Comfort are all EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. This is primarily because if the entire family is travelling it will be my mom, dad and brother in the rear seat. Responsive Engine is also an important aspect. It has to be at least moderately fun to drive and not bore you. In case of the SUV, a 7 seater is preferred. Also, for any option, iPod compatibility would be desirable but it isn't a deal breaker. How long you intend on keeping this car (and how important resale is to you) -- Depending on the option, 3-5 years and resale is fairly important (it shouldn't depreciate to like a 10th of its value in that time)

13th June 2009, 09:55	#5 (permalink)
ashthedivx Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Delhi Posts: 1,018	Another vote for option 2. As said, your accord was crashed immensely. I would suggest to pickup a safe car this time i.e. Jetta. Though it belongs to Skoda group but still it would a nice addition looking at safety features provided. __________________ Ashish K "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

13th June 2009, 11:47	#8 (permalink)
sammyboy Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Dehradun -Bangy (Again :) Posts: 1,014 View My Garage	I would suggest option 2 from the 2nd post i.e. get the Prado refurbished and buy a Corolla AT/MT depending on your choice. You get everything you need without exceeding your budget. Infact, thats the first thing that struck me when i read your first post. __________________ Honk your Head off. I will NOT jump the red light Last edited by sammyboy : 13th June 2009 at 11:50.

15th June 2009, 11:47	#12 (permalink)
lamborghini Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Mumbai/RI, USA Posts: 3,064 View My Garage	Hey, Since you have decided on option 2, and are getting the Prado done up, here is what I think for the second car. Since it is going to be chauffeur driven, with you dad driving it at times, think about the new Sonata. It is priced between the Accord and the Corolla, comes with a nice and powerful diesel, has nice interiors, quite roomy, etc. Put whatever cash is leftover as a down payment for your new high end SUV a few years down the line. __________________ ¢нєєяѕ ℓαмвσ

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12th June 2009, 23:17	#3 (permalink)
Dante BHPian Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Nasik Posts: 214	That's one huge post. yes GTO is right. Go with option 2. Rework on your Prado. Its one gem of a car. And i'd say get a Nissan Teana, or a VW Passat. Well a skoda superb is also good. And yes all the cars that I mentioned have huge rear seat legroom more that E class. And are not so often seen. Don't buy any second hand bmw, coz u have to shell out more money, rather save your bucks as it is your wish to own a Audi Q7 in future. I hope it helps.

13th June 2009, 09:20	#4 (permalink)
MileCruncher Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 1,415 View My Garage	@adithyav: Is the mileage of 3k/month combined of both cars or of each car. If its each car, then I think You should definitely be looking at diesel and the choices are Laura, Jetta, Passat and Superb and BMW 320d, C220CDI. IIRC there are no other diesel powered sedans in that segment. Option 2 as suggested by GTO is the best bet for you. Cheers and Happy Motoring!

13th June 2009, 11:43	#7 (permalink)
Gagan.js BHPian Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Mumbai Posts: 227	Wait for the fortuner? The road presence might not be prado like but hey, it's a great car! It seats seven, looks good, and you get the piece of mind since its supposed to run for years without any troubles, toyota reliability, it might be in the 20L range though. So then you will have say 10L left, a second hand accord comes at that price right? :o

14th June 2009, 19:14	#10 (permalink)
adithyav BHPian Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: New Delhi Posts: 29	Thanks for the replies everyone. So we checked with the Toyota people who are going to do the overhaul of the car and got an estimate for 3 lakhs for all the work including redoing the seat foam and leather. So most probably we are going to go ahead with that and get it done. Now we just need to decide on the second car whether it is a Corolla or a 2.4 Accord depending on the budget and what we end up liking in the end.

16th June 2009, 14:26	#15 (permalink)
indiandevil BHPian Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Clarks Summit, Bangalore when Im back Posts: 32	IMHO, I would go with Option 2, but instead get a middle of your price bracket Volkswagen Passat. 2 reasons, 1. Accord V6 in India is not a good option, from personal experience I know for a fact that the car is thirsty, has sub-standard interiors and is awful to drive. The used beemer is a good option, but then again you have the possibility of getting a car that has had previous problems, and you will probably look at the 520d, which has the worst engine in the BMW 5 series line-up. 2. Becuase, the Passat uses a 4 cylinder 2.0 Turbo which is better on fuel efficiency and has very good mid-range power. The seats are leather standars and the interiors are contemporary. I am sure you can get the detalied facts on each cars India specific website. Nevertheless, this is ONLY my opinion.