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Old 7th November 2009, 13:57   #1
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Default An SUV? or a sedan?

Hi All,

I am currently planning to buy a Scorpio SLE mHawk. My requirements are pretty basic, I am looking for a decent car below 10L(OTR) max which can easily accomodate atleast 5 adults comfortably regularly and an additional 1-2 more occassionally (3-4 times a month). Based on my budget and liking I found Scorpio to fit the bill on all accounts. I find it good looking, did a test drive and found the engine performance to be awesome, acceptable interiors and legspace. Since i did not see much use of several electronic gizmo's present in higher end models i found the SLE model to be a perfect match.

I mostly drive in city only with 5-6 longer trips outside in a year. In regards to my driving style I barely drive over 80-100km/hr or rashly. Scorpio's body roll problem as i have come to know about should not be a big problem for me (Is it really a problem? as many seem to suggest it topples on high speeds ofcourse not a single of them seems to own one). Existing owners please advice if there is anything to it.

The main cause of my concern is I currently drive in between 600-800 kms a month only due to the small distance between my home and office. What i really want to know is- does this low usage a cause of concern because of the diesel engine? what does it usually cost to maintain a scorpio? does the maintainance cost shoots up or is there any problem in general with low usage ike this?. I know my usage just does not justifies buying a diesel car/suv itself however based on my space requirement and budget I do not seem to be having many choices. Sedans are just not meant for accomodating more than 5 adults and other options just fall out of my budget.

One interesting observation i made in my friends Scorpio (2005 model) is that his car's body at some spots has rusted substantially. So much that it has caused a hole in couple of small areas. These areas are like 4 cm's wide and about a cm tall just above the door handles on two of the doors. Onething i know for sure is that his car was never hit or met an accident or was scratched at those locations. Not sure how could have it rusted so fast to an extent that it actually caused a hole in only 4+ years. He recently got it fixed but it made me wonder if it was body quality or if it was the water (i know for sure hard water affects body badly) which could have caused that.

I am open to other suggestions too (including sedans) if the ownership cost of a Scorpio just does not justify my usage. I have TD Fiesta, Aveo, Verna, Dzire. I did check out on Xylo as well but neither its interiors or exteriors appealed to me but i certainly do agree its a VFM and an excellent deal. Not sure though if i could get past the looks.

Looking for your suggestions and advice as i intend to make a decision asap.
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Old 7th November 2009, 22:34   #2
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Would advise you take a look at the Innova too.

I drive a Scorpio. Haven't experienced any problems w.r.t the body roll. The ride quality is atrocious though.
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Old 9th November 2009, 12:27   #3
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I actually did have a look at Innova, but did not consider it as it is going out of my budget.
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Old 9th November 2009, 12:40   #4
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Since you need to accommodate a couple of extra people in your car, say, on a monthly basis, sedans are out of question.

If the Scorpio SLE fits your bill, go for it. Running costs are reasonable, the ride quality has improved by leaps and bounds with the new coil spring versions and the lighter 2.2 engine. This coupled with your usage of 700kms per month approximately makes it a good deal for you. Moreover, it is easy to drive in the city and has a good resale value.
Last but not the least, it has been the market leader amongst Indian SUVs for years together now. What more could you ask for
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Old 9th November 2009, 12:40   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rouheet View Post
...One interesting observation i made in my friends Scorpio (2005 model) is that his car's body at some spots has rusted substantially. So much that it has caused a hole in couple of small areas. These areas are like 4 cm's wide and about a cm tall just above the door handles on two of the doors. Onething i know for sure is that his car was never hit or met an accident or was scratched at those locations. Not sure how could have it rusted so fast to an extent that it actually caused a hole in only 4+ years. He recently got it fixed but it made me wonder if it was body quality or if it was the water (i know for sure hard water affects body badly) which could have caused that....
I had raised this point in another thread but was assured by many that rusting is no longer an issue. But your friends experience raises this bug bear again!
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Old 9th November 2009, 13:27   #6
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bottomline is - as your daily drive would you prefer a vehicle which is big and imposing with a high seating position and GC, is diesel driven with good torque and has loads of space inside when you are driving alone or with your partner OR do you prefer a vehicle which is relatively low slung, rakish looking, has a separate boot and can do higher speeds?

remember, whatever you decide, you're going to have to live with it for the foreseeable future so choose wisely and carefully.

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Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
Since you need to accommodate a couple of extra people in your car, say, on a monthly basis, sedans are out of question.

If the Scorpio SLE fits your bill, go for it. Running costs are reasonable, the ride quality has improved by leaps and bounds with the new coil spring versions and the lighter 2.2 engine. This coupled with your usage of 700kms per month approximately makes it a good deal for you. Moreover, it is easy to drive in the city and has a good resale value.
Last but not the least, it has been the market leader amongst Indian SUVs for years together now. What more could you ask for
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Old 9th November 2009, 13:44   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
Since you need to accommodate a couple of extra people in your car, say, on a monthly basis, sedans are out of question.

If the Scorpio SLE fits your bill, go for it. Running costs are reasonable, the ride quality has improved by leaps and bounds with the new coil spring versions and the lighter 2.2 engine. This coupled with your usage of 700kms per month approximately makes it a good deal for you. Moreover, it is easy to drive in the city and has a good resale value.
Last but not the least, it has been the market leader amongst Indian SUVs for years together now. What more could you ask for
I certainly do agree with that as i have TD new 2.2 recently. I have driven my friends older Scorpio with turbo 2.6 engine on several occasions and can see a major difference. New one seems to be making lesser noise (not sure if it was just because it was new), has better seats apart from several other improvements that i see. I also do agree its easy to drive in the city, infact its turning radius seems to smaller then my ALto.
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Old 9th November 2009, 14:00   #8
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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
remember, whatever you decide, you're going to have to live with it for the foreseeable future so choose wisely and carefully.
I have been following your scorpio thread and its good to see your comment here.

This comment of yours is exactly what i have in mind. I would prefer an SUV but I am just fine with a sedan as well (I do not need to drive at very high speeds nor do i need excellent FE so i can easily go for a petrol sedan). What i really wanted to know through this thread was does my usage justify the additional cost (is their really going to be a difference in maintaining the two) and is it going to require a lot more maintenance in long term? as i intend to keep it for atleast 7-8 years. I can live with a sedan space if that prooves to be a lot more economical to maintain in long run. If their is no difference i don't mind spending extra bucks for the space as it makes lot more sense in long term.
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Old 9th November 2009, 14:02   #9
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turning radius of the Scorpio is about 5.6 metres (for comparison the Linea turning radius is 5.4 metres) - this 5.6 m is good but Im not sure its similar to that of the Alto.
I agree the scorp is very easy to handle in the city while getting in and out of tight places, or performing a 180 degree turn on a normal road from one side of the street to the other - given the overall size of the vehicle I mean.

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Originally Posted by rouheet View Post
I certainly do agree with that as i have TD new 2.2 recently. I have driven my friends older Scorpio with turbo 2.6 engine on several occasions and can see a major difference. New one seems to be making lesser noise (not sure if it was just because it was new), has better seats apart from several other improvements that i see. I also do agree its easy to drive in the city, infact its turning radius seems to smaller then my ALto.
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Old 9th November 2009, 14:21   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
turning radius of the Scorpio is about 5.6 metres (for comparison the Linea turning radius is 5.4 metres) - this 5.6 m is good but Im not sure its similar to that of the Alto.
I agree the scorp is very easy to handle in the city while getting in and out of tight places, or performing a 180 degree turn on a normal road from one side of the street to the other - given the overall size of the vehicle I mean.
I checked and specs say turning radius for Alto is 4.6M so i guess its just what i felt. I have driven this old scorpio in city as well as highways (did a overnight 500+km drive) and i really found it excellent to handle as i had my reservations before due to its overall size. I am not sure about very high speeds though, never drive over 110 km/hr max. But this old one is not comfortable for long runs, also there is quite a lot vibration on gear and even the front seats which was a lot lesser in the new 2.2. Whats your experience in these regards in your Scorpio?
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Old 9th November 2009, 14:27   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rouheet View Post
This comment of yours is exactly what i have in mind. I would prefer an SUV but I am just fine with a sedan as well (I do not need to drive at very high speeds nor do i need excellent FE so i can easily go for a petrol sedan). What i really wanted to know through this thread was does my usage justify the additional cost (is their really going to be a difference in maintaining the two) and is it going to require a lot more maintenance in long term? as i intend to keep it for atleast 7-8 years. I can live with a sedan space if that prooves to be a lot more economical to maintain in long run. If their is no difference i don't mind spending extra bucks for the space as it makes lot more sense in long term.
Modern day SUVs are comparable to cars in their maintenance costs and that is the reason for them garnering good sales numbers. I have the experience of owning a sedan and can assure you that the Scorpio will not be a burden on your pocket. You can refer to HV Kumar's logs for a general idea.
Long term life of a vehicle depends on preventive maintenance and regular upkeep of small things before they turn big. You can refer to Guderian's LTOR for guidance in the matter specific to the Scorp. Love your truck and there is no reason you will regret.
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Old 9th November 2009, 14:31   #12
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glad to help anytime - suggest do consider the below;

1. 7 to 8 years is a decent long time for a vehicle in todays world. (one also assumes that earning levels will improve reasonably year on year so economic considerations, while important, need not be the only thing to consider.)
2. If having a diesel SUV will motivate you to take more long distance trips/ out of town adventures and explore more of your part of India via highway travel then it is a good idea. (around 1200 -1500 km per month would definitely justify the extra price IMO - Im comparing it to myself)
3. Your personal preference on high GC and high seating position is important.
4. I would never suggest high speeds in an SUV anyway on account of the high centre of gravity and rollover potential - max 100-110-120 is peaceful on the highways.
5. The Scorpio doesnt cost very much to maintain per se - you need to give it regularly for its detox service,keep it well, wash it on average twice a week, park it in a covered space and/or cover it with a car cover to prevent rust and so on and it will serve you faithfully and well for a long time.
6. the engine will go along peacefully for 200,000 kms as has been proven by a few others on this forum. (at the rate of 1500 km per month one will hit 200,000 kms only after 133 months - 11 years and some!)
7. reliability, cost of spares etc is not usually an issue with Mahindra vehicles provided one doesnt un-necessarily abuse them. For example each service doesnt generally cost more than 3000 including all oil changes and so on.
8.Normal plain old service doesnt cost more than 1500. I follow the quarterly service method which is effectively 4 times a year give or take and I dont spend more than around 10-12 grand a year MAX! I am a bit obsessive so I make sure I get the insides cleaned and so on which costs a bit extra, which is why my service bills may be a little higher. I also get the wheel alignment and balancing and tyre rotation done every 5000 km - this normally doesnt cost more than about 800 or 900 each time and is very important if you want to keep your tyres in good nick as Im sure you will. Ive found this kind of care pays one back in spades considering the cost of replacing a tyre which may be as high as Rs 5000 for each tubeless bridgestone.
9.Finally, you've got to decide - what does your heart say? Do you somehow want an SUV for its butch kind of appeal, scads of space and general go anywhere tough attitude or would you be just content with having a run of the mill sedan? Dont forget, you're going to live with the vehicle for some time to come - isnt it better that you buy what you instinctively find feelings of affection for rather than just picking up something that simply serves the purpose?
10.In my case, my heart rules over the head when it comes to vehicle purchases - i just love jeep-ish things with some of the extra comforts thrown in, (love being one of the strongest, most influential emotions known to man) - but I try to temper it by shopping around, test driving several possibilities, negotiating hard with the dealers and then taking the best overall deal which suits me.
11.For me, when pitted against the (then launched) Ford Fusion TDci Plus with ABS etc, I found that the Scorpio fitted the bill to a T given my space and capability requirements and my internal budget cap at the time - I ended up paying 8+ which saved me a couple of lacs from my own budget cap - of course it was achieved after some solid discount negotiations, choosing the variant carefully, pushing the dealer for some free accessories, pushing the insurance chaps to the limit on no claim etc and accessorizing on my own. The Fusion at that time would have come to me at the same price I paid for the Scorp - the main plus point in the Fusion being it had ABS and some other fiddly bits - but the space available was less because I love acres of space to chuck lots of things into. So overall I chose the Scorp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rouheet View Post
I have been following your scorpio thread and its good to see your comment here.

This comment of yours is exactly what i have in mind. I would prefer an SUV but I am just fine with a sedan as well (I do not need to drive at very high speeds nor do i need excellent FE so i can easily go for a petrol sedan). What i really wanted to know through this thread was does my usage justify the additional cost (is their really going to be a difference in maintaining the two) and is it going to require a lot more maintenance in long term? as i intend to keep it for atleast 7-8 years. I can live with a sedan space if that prooves to be a lot more economical to maintain in long run. If their is no difference i don't mind spending extra bucks for the space as it makes lot more sense in long term.
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Old 9th November 2009, 14:40   #13
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my 2.6 Crde gives me no hassles on long distance cruising at 100-110-120 range which is typcially the kind of speeds I do MAX.
No gear vibration. No front seat discomfort- always strapped in.
Rear seat passengers must be strapped in properly for their maximum peace of mind and comfort. when loaded down with a number of passengers (4 people) plus luggage the vehicle sits on the road really well. one reason could be that my vehicle has a slightly wider footprint on account of its alloys and this certainly increases its overall stability and causes it to sit on the road really well. At speeds like the above I ve had absolutely no complaints of discomfort from my rear seat passengers and indeed on the one occasion that I sat in the rear seat with my friend driving, I did not have any problem either at these speeds.

Yes the 2.2 is more refined than the 2.6 and it is quite possible that even the vibrations you felt would be less in the newer vehicle - I havent driven a 2.2 at the same speeds I ve driven my 2.6 so I personally am unable to compare.


Quote:
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But this old one is not comfortable for long runs, also there is quite a lot vibration on gear and even the front seats which was a lot lesser in the new 2.2. Whats your experience in these regards in your Scorpio?
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Old 9th November 2009, 16:07   #14
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I only have one point to make. As a part of a 2 member car-pool, I drive my Bolero and a friend's Accent every other week. As much fun as driving a petrol sedan may be, in the city, when I want to simply get to work or get home from work, all I am looking for is peace of mind.

Scenario 1: I drive from Thane to Bandra via the EE highway that goes through Suman nagar, Sion, Dharavi to Bandra. On weekday mornings, these areas are usually bumper to bumper traffic. When I'm driving my friend's Accent, I am paranoid about auto's/bikers and other motorists brushing past the car and have to make a real effort to get past these jams. The ride on the highways is beautiful, and fast, and a lot of fun. But these jammed signals really take the fun out of it, entirely.

Scenario 2: Same drive, same jams, different car. My bolero. I reach the suman nagar jams, and barely notice the auto's/bikers as they are no longer interested in trying to cut across the bigger UV. The slow moving traffic poses no issues as the Bolero has a lot of low end torque, accessible by just using the clutch wisely, and avoiding any throttle input whatsoever. Life is now so much more gentle and easy.

I say it again, the petrol/diesel sedans are fantastic to drive when you want to get somewhere quick/in style and have a blast while getting there. The bigger UV's may not be all of that, but for commutes, they take the pain out of the whole city commuting experience, for me.

On another note, the Scorpio VLX is a pretty quick vehicle, and the amount of power that engine delivers is in my opinion, more than enough to keep you interested for a long time.

OT: Although I own and drive a Bolero, I am pretty biased when it comes to the perfect/affordable car one should drive in the city. It is the All New Honda City I-Vtec, and I must ask you to consider test-driving the city before you pick an SUV. It is a very rich and luxurious experience when compared to driving any Mahindra SUV.

Cheers,

Last edited by sriku : 9th November 2009 at 16:14. Reason: Missed a perspective highlight.
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Old 13th November 2009, 18:31   #15
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Hi, This has been discussed before please continue the discussion in one of the Existing threads.

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