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Old 21st May 2010, 00:48   #1
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Default Figo TDCi EXi vs Indigo CS LX TDi. Update: Its the Indigo.

Hi,

My family has been looking for a good used car for a while, but after looking for three months, and the hassles involved in getting finance for a used car, we decided today that it was simply not worth it. So, even though it goes against my policy of not adding to the traffic congestion by adding yet another car into the mayhem, we have decided to get a new car.

Here are the requirements:

1) Diesel engine: Even though we don't have a very high usage pattern (less than 1000km per month), we will be keeping this car for a long time, and so, diesel would mean better resale down the road, especially if its a low mileage vehicle. Besides, it just hurts when I hand over 500 bucks to get less than ten litres!

2) Low maintenance: This is very important. We will be keeping the car well beyond it's extended warranty period of four years. So it's essential that the maintenance be easy on the pocket.

3) Space: Having rode around in an 800 for ten years, we feel it's time for us to stretch out a bit. And be able to carry four people's luggage for a week-long trip. Dad and I are both short and stout, and dad did complain that the Figo driving position was too low.

4) Mileage

5) Comfort: The ride should be good, especially on the bad roads of our state. The car will be used primarily on the highway to and from work, a 20 minute drive. Plus city trips for errands and shopping, as well as the occasional 250km drive to our homestead.

We set the budget at 5 lakhs, and then took it up to 5.25 because the Indigo CS TDi LX costs that much on-road. We booked the car on an impulse today, mostly because we'd already decided on a used Indigo and were thus comfortable with the Indigo platform, and because the sales guys were willing to come over to our house at 7 pm for it!

So we booked it in Platinum Black color, and were told that there were two vehicles in the lot. They would arrange for a test drive tomorrow morning, and would also send someone over to the house to arrange the finance.

Now that we've spent 5000 bucks, Dad and I got to thinking over it and worrying. Then, I saw the Figo brochure that Dad had been given a couple weeks ago, and noticed that the price of the Figo TDCi EXi was also 5.25 lakhs. So therein lies the problem.

Now, the Ford has a wonderful engine, good quality, and good FE from what I hear. But, it is also an unknown quantity. We don't know how expensive the spares are gonna be, or how it will hold its value. The features seem mostly comparable, except the Ford doesn't have rear power windows, defogger, or a big boot. But those I can live without, I think. But expensive parts, I can't live with!

The Indigo on the other hand is a bonafide sedan, I like the looks, it's proven to be cheap, and easy on maintenance. But, there's flimsy plastics, unrefined engine, and somewhat bad handling. But it is a sedan at the price of a hatch.

So what do you think folks? Should I go ahead with the CS or switch to the Figo? Eagerly awaiting opinions. BTW, will I get my booking amount back in full if I cancel it?

Last edited by vivekgk : 21st May 2010 at 00:59.
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Old 21st May 2010, 07:40   #2
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read my long term ownership thread. should give you a fair idea about the ownership costs of the indigo (I've documented each and every bill).

about the ford, maybe you could check with bullboy?
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Old 21st May 2010, 07:51   #3
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Tough one, I would only comment on the Engine front, the Ford is definetely ahead in terms of drivability, almost no turbo lag.
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Old 21st May 2010, 08:01   #4
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Hi Vivek, looks like you have already finalised on Indigo CS. I would recommend you to try out the new CR4 Engine if that is avialable in trivandrum. The BSIV version is little more feature rich than its earlier version.

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Old 21st May 2010, 08:50   #5
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BIG NO for the Dicor engine
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ent-wrong.html (DiCOR - What went wrong?)

way more complex. way more expensive, way more things that could ( and do) go wrong, and not much to show for it. The TDI is more than adequate.

I'm getting FE in the 13 kmpl range, but that's due to a very heavy right foot. but I'm sure the ford can manage a whole lot better on the FE front. If i were you, and not worried about the resale, I'd go with the ford. only problem is that your options for service in tvm outside kairali (which is as much as a ripoff as kulathunkal) are very limited , if at all they exist.

I say , drive them both. the difference should be obvious. the indigo CS is a generation behind the Figo. It would have been like buying a premier 137D instead of the indica 10 years ago for the same reasons listed above (cheap, maintenence, sedan etc)

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Old 21st May 2010, 10:19   #6
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What's there to think about? Go get the Figo! IMHO, a better car in many ways;a great engine.

Seems you will be doing 1200-1500max every month; ride quality will be better on a Punto; why not also include a Punto petrol?

And the VISTA versions.

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Old 21st May 2010, 10:36   #7
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Ford Figo anyday. The Tata isnt refined enough and the other bit and pieces dont catch up too.
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Old 21st May 2010, 17:43   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RajeshK View Post
Hi Vivek, looks like you have already finalised on Indigo CS. I would recommend you to try out the new CR4 Engine if that is avialable in trivandrum. The BSIV version is little more feature rich than its earlier version.
I've seen the petrol eGLX version at the showroom, the interiors and the exteriors look fab, and the CR4 engine is supposedly the most frugal in India. But the cost is 5.65 lacs on road, and that is waaay out of our range. Plus the bad taste left by DiCOR with troublesome fuel pump and such. TDi is much more reliable and easy to fix at any mechanic.

Besides, CR4 will not be available for at least a couple more months. Not willing to wait that long, and even longer till someone has bought it, clocked some mileage and posted the details here. Not going to be Tata's tech tester. If I had more money, I would experiment, but not right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
BIG NO for the Dicor engine
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ent-wrong.html (DiCOR - What went wrong?)

way more complex. way more expensive, way more things that could ( and do) go wrong, and not much to show for it. The TDI is more than adequate.
Yes, Even the Tata dealers themselves were advising against it. And almost every mech I know. That's why I didn't buy a pristine used Marina earlier this week, although the dealer quoted 2.75 lacs (2007 model, 45K on odo) and said it was 'adjustable'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn
I'm getting FE in the 13 kmpl range, but that's due to a very heavy right foot. but I'm sure the ford can manage a whole lot better on the FE front. If i were you, and not worried about the resale, I'd go with the ford. only problem is that your options for service in tvm outside kairali (which is as much as a ripoff as kulathunkal) are very limited , if at all they exist.
My dad will be driving mostly, and he doesn't go above 85, ever. The only time I've seen him do a 100 was when me and my friends were in the car and prodding him on, on a long empty stretch, in our old Fiat, about ten years ago. And he held that for about two minutes before dropping back to 80.

Indigo has good resale here, especially low mileage models. Second hand dealers are willing to take one off your hands at good prices at any time. Also, I feel that Kulathunkal can't rip off as much as Ford can, because of lower parts prices.

Conversely, Ford has really bad resale. It is perceived as being expensive to maintain, thanks mainly to the Ikon and Kairali Ford. If I decide I want to upgrade later, I won't have to simply take the best offer. As a prospective customer who was in a bidding war for a used Indigo CS (and lost), I know that it's a seller's market for Indigo TDIs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn
I say , drive them both. the difference should be obvious. the indigo CS is a generation behind the Figo. It would have been like buying a premier 137D instead of the indica 10 years ago for the same reasons listed above (cheap, maintenence, sedan etc)
Good point. That is exactly why I am confused. But to be fair, the Figo too is based on the old Fiesta platform. And it's not cutting edge design either. Also, the Indigo isn't exactly a fifty year old design the 137D was.

But the thing is, the rest of my family feels that only sedans qualify as 'real cars', no matter how much I try to explain that we won't use all that boot space most of the time (reply - "What if we want to bring a jackfruit when we come back, eh?") They also feel that the sedan looks more upmarket. And since we are upgrading from an 800, anything would feel better, I guess.

I test drove both of them today, with a gap of just about three hours, and here's how it went.

The Indigo CS first. The car now comes with the same front end as the regular Indigo, dual chambered headlamps et al. It also has beige interiors, which my Dad and Sis liked. With the beige upholstery, it looks very airy, though the plastics are not very good. The seats are nice, though it was difficult for me to see over the steering, being short. Overall, the interior space is very good, with room to stretch our legs at the back. The AC is very good, and I had to turn down the blower after five minutes.

On the drive, I stalled it twice trying to reverse out of the parking slot, because the lag caught me unawares. I had to work to keep the engine on the boil, and it's OK, but it's not exactly exciting to drive. The boot is enormous, 380 litres. Lots of space in there for a sub, and with space left over for luggage. Dad was satisfied with the car, though he did complain about the ride and the response. We would have to pay 5.1 lacs for the LX version, but we decided to switch to the LS at 4.9 lacs. (includes free insurance)

A couple of calls later to the sales guy at Kairali Ford, and the Figo was available for TD within three hours. First of all, Sis hated the looks. She liked the Indigo, but didn't think much of the hatchback. Dad thought it was too low.

I got in, and immediately noticed the old-school driving position. You have to swing yourself down into the seat, not as easy as the Indigo. Also, the steering was in my lap, and not adjustable at all. My knee was up against the dash after I'd adjusted the seats to my liking. The interiors were of a different level than the Indigo, and everything felt nicely put together. There were a few iffy bits, like the door trim, but mostly, it was fine. But it was all so dark. It felt like I was sitting in a cave, despite the big windows! The headroom is low at the back, and the legroom was also less. Remember, we are short people. No car should be too small for us!

But everything was forgiven as soon as I put the car into gear and started off. I fell in love with the engine and gearbox within ten seconds. The response is incredible, and the engine felt refined and smooth compared to the Tata mill. The low driving position aids in the visibility, and I felt comfortable overtaking even in the rain (not to mention the properly marked demo car was the TDCi Titanium, with ABS and airbags). The car is a joy to drive.

Dad took his turn in the driver's seat and I got in the back with Sis. He was grinning like a school kid in a minute of taking the wheel. Sis, btw, was still unhappy with the car.

We got back, and got into a discussion about the OTR price, financing, availability etc. We wanted the EXi version, and it was available in 'Chill' shade (golden beige) and one each of Black and Red were also available. Then he dropped the bomb. He couldn't assure immediate delivery unless we paid upfront in cash, and the waiting period was 45 days. Moreover, the price is set to increase by 15K by next month. Obviously, there are no freebies of any kind, and he couldn't assure any kind of good price for my M800.

Now this is a harder decision. If we wait for 45 days, and pay 15K extra, then we get a fun car. On the other hand, the Indigo is available immediately, has a 13.6K offer for free insurance, we will get a good exchange price and some freebies. Head vs heart?

If we go for the Indigo LS, then the price difference is 52K (24K+ for LX, 13K+ free insurance, 15K+ price hike) Sis hates the Figo, says it's cramped and that she's had enough of hatches. Dad and I are OK with the boot space, because we feel that what is lost in depth is made up in height. Sis doesn't drive, so she doesn't care about the engine.

So, in this moment of heady confusion, I upped the ante with these words - "What about the Vista Quadrajet?" - Good interiors, cheaper than both the cars, available with a discount, has the national engine, has great interiors, and it more modern than the old Fiesta the Figo is based on. But that will have to wait for later, because it's already after 5:40 pm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
read my long term ownership thread. should give you a fair idea about the ownership costs of the indigo (I've documented each and every bill).
I couldn't find your Indigo thread, but I did go through your Indica Turbo thread. They have a lot of the same parts, so I feel you've given a good idea on the caveats of owning a first gen Tata.

Last edited by vivekgk : 21st May 2010 at 17:46.
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Old 22nd May 2010, 20:12   #9
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After driving my uncle's Indigo and then recently th Figo, I would say there is no comparison. Figo wins hands down.

Why dont you consider one of the DDiS cars? If your choice *has* to be a Tata, then why not Vista?
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Old 22nd May 2010, 20:24   #10
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Finally managed to make a decision. The Figo is out, because of -ve feedback from Ikon, Fiesta owners about Ford parts prices, service costs and resale. Importantly, the womenfolk of the house are strongly against a hatchback. We (Dad and me) would rather not hear complaints for the rest of the life (of the car) about how we should have gone for the sedan. That meant that the Vista QJD was out too, especially after looking at the minimal boot space. Besides, the Indigo TDi is proven, the service is equally good (or bad) as Ford and service costs are affordable.

Sure, the driving pace will be more sedate, but Dad and I are not accustomed to more than 38 bhp from the 800, and I think the TDi will be more forgiving.

The dealer recommended that we switch to the Indigo eGLX because of our low running (15K per year). We test drove the new eGLX version, and came off unimpressed by the power. At least with the TDi, you get some power after 2200 rpm. With the petrol, there is nothing to wait for. The peak power is supposedly at 5000 rpm, but the engine felt too tight to rev that high. The salesperson did assure that it would be better post-PDI.

The interiors are much better. Nice darker shade of dashboard and steering, fake wood accents on central console and door handles, and better trim on the door pads too. The buffed pedals with rubber inserts look fab, and the Clarion music system with MP3/WMA/Aux in is nice. You can even opt for an optional Bluetooth dongle and pair a phone. Sounds pretty good too, though the speakers are 4 X 4 inch. The front is similar to the Indigo XL, amber turn signals and satin finish 3 slat grille.

The difference between LX TDi and eGLX is only 50K, and since the Petrol isn't as efficient as the TDi, (17 vs 19 on highway, I think), the eGLX will end up costing per year more even with a lower EMI. Heck, I calculated that over a period of 7 years (max loan period), we will have saved enough money to pay off 33 EMIs.

So thanks everyone who helped with the comments, and also to those who posted long term reviews of the TDCi Fiesta, Fusion and the Indigo TDi variants. We have settled on the Indigo CS TDi LX variant, Infinity Black color. Black because Red is too loud and there are too many Indigo taxis in white, silver and gold!

We decided on the LX because we didn't want to get the power windows fitted from outside, thereby giving the TASS reasons to wash their hands off in case of anything going wrong with the electrics. We intend to get my current 800's DVD player and speakers installed on the new car at the dealer itself.

Please post your opinions on going for LX variant vs the LS and getting power windows done from accessories shop. Pros and cons. If anyone has fitted power windows on their Tata cars, could they please put up some pics? Also, what are the essentials I should ask for? I have decided against seat covers and 'teflon coating', so I have some leeway. They are giving me free insurance and free mats for now.

We have decided to wait till next week to get the car, because there are only two cars in the lot, and a new lot is in transit, expected to arrive by Tuesday. Better to pick one from that than the ones which have been standing here for weeks in the blistering April heat and recent rain. I also noted that the ones in the yard had almost flat tyres. That can't be too good for the tubes, right?

Hopefully, I will be able to wrap up this thread next week (and start the ownership thread!), pending approval for the bank loan.

Last edited by vivekgk : 22nd May 2010 at 20:30.
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Old 22nd May 2010, 21:34   #11
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Small addition. I'm also getting free Remote central locking. I asked for Autocop, but was offered Minda, with assurance that dealer will offer service.
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Old 23rd May 2010, 08:10   #12
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if possible. switch to tubeless
IMO you can never have enough white Indigos/indicas
svsanthosh got power windows from outside, and they were marginally slower than my stock windows.
Here you go : https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attac...dit-sold-7.jpg
stock power windows have switches in the center console, aftermarket are on teh doors. do get the 2+2 year extended warranty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
When you go to take delivery of the car, the salesman will ask you to fill a satisfaction form, and tell you that its a formality/ask you to fill it before you get the car. Do not do so.Wait until you recieve the car , and are totally satisfied with it, and hand over the form only at the end. Tata scrutinizes this form very carefully, so if you rate anything low in it, they will get grilled for it, so they ask most folks to fill it up initially, where most people will give good ratings, take the form, and then deliver the car with some issues, and thats when things get ugly, but the customer is helpless by then.

So make sure you dont fill/hand over that feedback form until the car is in your hand and everything is as you want it/if there are unresolved issues, make sure they reflect on the form.Its just a form with 10~20 checkboxes , but it matters a lot. I've managed to get very good results by holding the form at ransom when taking delivery

Last edited by greenhorn : 23rd May 2010 at 08:15.
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Old 23rd May 2010, 10:32   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
if possible. switch to tubeless
IMO you can never have enough white Indigos/indicas
svsanthosh got power windows from outside, and they were marginally slower than my stock windows.
Here you go : https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attac...dit-sold-7.jpg
stock power windows have switches in the center console, aftermarket are on teh doors. do get the 2+2 year extended warranty.
Wow, the aftermarket power windows don't look that good. The phrase "Aechu kettiyal muzhachirikkum" comes to mind. . Is it Autocop? They come in beige too, right? Any idea what he paid? The dealer said it would be 14K for 4 doors.

Thanks so much for the pic, now I can opt for the LX version and be satisfied. LX also has rear defogger and some other fancy bits like seatbelt /door open warning buzzers, and body coloured side strips/ORVMs with chrome trim.

Regarding the tyres, I am considering Michelin Energy XM1+ or Bridgestone Potenza GIII in 185/65R14 or Yokohama ES100 in 195/60, and some good branded alloys like Acelere or Lenso. Will Kulathunkal Motors void warranty if I change from stock size, or are they cool with that?

Also, can I buy the tyres and alloys from outside, take them to the dealership and get them installed even before the car goes for registration? That way, they'll align the wheels with the alloys and new tyres on, and I can claim a better price for the stock tyres/wheels.
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Old 23rd May 2010, 10:50   #14
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defogger on the rear is a bit tricky. if you install sunfilm on the rear glass, the installer will probably (knowingly or unknowingly ruin it) but you dont need it much in kerala weather

and the strips on the ORVMs are mighty handy if you are prone to rubbing your ORVM's ( I had them installed on my indica )
14k for the windows sounds about right. the LX is worth it in terms of the extra stuff you get.

check out his ownership thread for details
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-...edit-sold.html
better do it outside, and dont specifically mention the upsize
Go for 185/60 or 195/60
do shop around. its hard to get the good stuff cheap in tvm

Last edited by greenhorn : 23rd May 2010 at 10:53.
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Old 24th May 2010, 20:02   #15
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I went to the dealership (Again!!!) to hand over finance related documents and because mum was not satisfied with the black color we chose. Sis came along with her good camera phone.

As we neared the dealership, we saw that the new lot had arrived. Red and White Indigos were being unloaded. So, we went in and snapped some pics of all the available colors to show Mum. Pics attached. There's the black one from the old lot that looked classy, Ivory White, Mint White, Scarlet Red and a lonely and ignored Artic Silver Petrol. Looks like it's been there a while.

I noticed that different colored cars came with different brands of tyres. The white cars came with Bridgestone, The Black and Ivory cars have Goodyear GPS2, and the Red ones has Apollo Amazer XL. All horrible tyres, as is the case with Tata.

The sales person told me that the LX versions were selling very well. Apparently, people don't mind paying a bit extra for it, because of the feel-good factor of buying the 'full-option' model. The LS is mostly taxis.

Also got a look at the Indigo XL TDi (only available in Mint White, comes with power windows at rear only, rear AC vents, suited for taxi) and also a cute little yellow Nano. At some point, I'm going to buy one of them just because they're so cute!

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
defogger on the rear is a bit tricky. if you install sunfilm on the rear glass, the installer will probably (knowingly or unknowingly ruin it) but you dont need it much in kerala weather
I asked the accessories people at Kulathunkal about this, and they assured me that the film they use won't interfere with the defogger. Currently not putting film. Stock tint is dark enough. Besides, it doesn't make sense to partially blind yourself before you've got used to the size of the new car!

What does the defogger do, actually? I was under the impression that it was used during rains to prevent condensation on rear glass. Front glass won't fog up if you put the AC on. If that's the case, then defogger would be useful in a rainy climate, right? Especially while reversing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn
and the strips on the ORVMs are mighty handy if you are prone to rubbing your ORVM's ( I had them installed on my indica )
You can see the strips on the pics I've attached. They're not really rubbing strips, looks like they are only for show on this car. It's chrome, not rubber or plastic. I hope you're right though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn
better do it outside, and dont specifically mention the upsize
Go for 185/60 or 195/60
do shop around. its hard to get the good stuff cheap in tvm
The sales guys tell me it will be okay.

But I'm wondering if I should upsize after all. 175/65s are pretty wide and low profile after all, it's not like the Swift where you get 165/80s that make it look like it's standing on tiptoe.

New Bharat Tyres has offered 6K as buyback for all four stock tyres. That's 1.5K per tyre. Worth it? Not changing the spare as I do not plan to rotate it. Also quoted prices ranging from 14K to 18K for various branded alloys in 14 inch (League, Plati, Acelere)

Shopping around gave interesting results. If you go to a conventional old-school dealer, he will reproachfully advice you to stick to the factory tyres. Others will try to convince you that 205/50R15 is the perfect tyre for you.

Trying Car Park near Killipalam tomorrow. They have a good selection. What I'm looking for is all-black alloys with polished lip.
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Last edited by vivekgk : 24th May 2010 at 20:14.
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