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Old 7th October 2010, 14:21   #16
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Your options 1,3,4,5 & 6 are not driver oriented. They all fail in good handling characteristics. Even with power and featherlight power steering, you will sweat to take some of them through corners.

Let me recall someone else's statement here, about a Hyundai's handling - Get it if you want to be a ship captain

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Originally Posted by amitoj View Post
Unless your friend is aspiring to be a Ship Captain.

I am surprised that you shortlisted most of the cars which are not really driver oriented, keeping your main criteria as driving pleasure.

Last edited by clevermax : 7th October 2010 at 14:28.
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Old 7th October 2010, 15:05   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clevermax View Post
Your options 1,3,4,5 & 6 are not driver oriented. They all fail in good handling characteristics. Even with power and featherlight power steering, you will sweat to take some of them through corners.

Let me recall someone else's statement here, about a Hyundai's handling - Get it if you want to be a ship captain
Quote:
I am surprised that you shortlisted most of the cars which are not really driver oriented, keeping your main criteria as driving pleasure.
I too wanted the echo the same. I would rather buy a Fiesta 1.4D and drive, why?
0-100 and roll-ons(you got gear-box) aren't as important as a Car which reacts the way you want/wish it to in case of an emergency maneuver. You won't be cornering at its top speed, but say at 80-90kmph and this is where a Car with good dynamics is of utter importance.(safety and fun wise)

I would go for a Fiesta/Linea.
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Old 7th October 2010, 21:16   #18
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First of all, thanks a lot for the responses guys. I really appreciate the advice.

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
If you don't want to go the Vento way, the only other diesel sedan I'd recommend for driving pleasure is the Fiat Linea 1.3 MJD. Add on a diesel power box and you're looking at a realistic 100 BHP. The steering, ride & handling are simply class-leading. Sure, it still won't be the fastest, but I suppose you are okay with "acceptable" power since I also see the Dzire / Manza / Fiesta on this thread.

The Optra Magnum is too old, long in the tooth and suffers from extremely shoddy resale (you can lose 50% in a year). Avoid.
The only reason the Dzire/ Manza/ Fiesta are even on the list are due to the lack of options within this budget.

I agree the Optra Magnum is too old, but since I plan to buy used, the low resale value may actually work in my favour.

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Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
Actually sub 9 lakhs there is nothing that will meet your exact requirement in Diesel. Had it been petrol, it would have been a Fiesta S straightaway.

I recommend look for a good conditioned less than 2 years Optra Magnum LT which you can get it for 7 Lakhs or lower. It feels premium than other cars in 7-9 lakhs segment as its slightly above.
The used Magnum is definitely top of the list. Either that or a new i20 1.4 CRDi Asta. If I can find some way to reduce the assistance from the power steering, it would actually make for a pretty decent ride.

If, by some miracle, I can convince dad to go for a petrol, I would buy a Honda Civic without a second thought. I currently have a Civic (is a company car that will be gone in a month or two, making me go on this driver oriented diesel hunt to replace it), and therefore know the characteristics of the car very well, and I absolutely love it to pieces.

Daily running is less than 25 km, tried explaining to Dad that for Diesel to really give return on investment, would have to drive minimum 50 km everyday, but he's being stubborn . I'm going to show him the mathematical calculations on paper, maybe if I'm lucky this will convince him. Here's hoping he relents and listens to my arguments.

Anyways, thanks a lot GTO and mobike for your advice.

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Originally Posted by clevermax View Post
Your options 1,3,4,5 & 6 are not driver oriented. They all fail in good handling characteristics. Even with power and featherlight power steering, you will sweat to take some of them through corners.

Let me recall someone else's statement here, about a Hyundai's handling - Get it if you want to be a ship captain

I am surprised that you shortlisted most of the cars which are not really driver oriented, keeping your main criteria as driving pleasure.
I am aware these cars are not driver oriented, but there aren't that many options for diesels in the sub-9 lakh category.

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Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
I too wanted the echo the same. I would rather buy a Fiesta 1.4D and drive, why?
0-100 and roll-ons(you got gear-box) aren't as important as a Car which reacts the way you want/wish it to in case of an emergency maneuver. You won't be cornering at its top speed, but say at 80-90kmph and this is where a Car with good dynamics is of utter importance.(safety and fun wise)

I would go for a Fiesta/Linea.
True, dynamics are important, and the Fiesta and Linea definitely win in this department, but the fun aspect also requires a bit of power under the hood.

After reading all the replies, I'm beginning to feel that there is no car that fits my overall criteria, except possibly a magnum which I am yet to TD.

Worst come to worst, I'll talk to dad and convince him to sacrifice diesel fuel economy and get a civic.

Note from the Team-BHP Support Team : Please use the "edit" button if posting within 20 minutes of the first post, instead of creating another back-to-back post. Thanks.

Last edited by Amartya : 7th October 2010 at 22:34. Reason: Back to back posts within 20 minutes
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Old 7th October 2010, 22:08   #19
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My two cents:

If choosing pre-owned: A Chevy Optra Magnum (not worth buying new) or Hyundai Elantra, plus repairs and refurbishing; stretch the budget and go for a Sonata Embera CRDi or (if you can find it) a Chevy Cruze.

If choosing brand new: i20 CRDi or DZire Diesel. Or wait for the Toyota Etios sedan (the launch is sooner than you think).

Between a 1.3/1.4L (which you don't like)...
Quote:
Would like something more powerful than the 1.3 ltr DDiS. (Can't question the popularity of this engine though)
Quote:
i20 CRDi... Would still like a larger more powerful engine, but this can be worked around by installing After-market Air Filters and FFE's.
...and a 2.0L diesel (a new car with that engine is out of your price range), you don't have any intermediate choice.

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Old 7th October 2010, 22:19   #20
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After all has been said and discussed i wanted to my two cents here. If i were in a similar scenario i would pick the Vento TDi, the Engine has got best of both worlds, it does not have turbo-lag just like the Fiesta and still pulls like a Verna at top end.

The Handling might not be as fun as the Linea and Fiesta, but it's still very good unlike the Boat on wheels- the Hyundai Verna. The Steering again is neither as quick and Direct as Fiesta nor as well weighted and screaming with the feedback as seen in the Linea, But again it's better than Verna's vague and dead steering which goes crazy with torque steer at most of the times. The problem with Vento's Steering is it's over servo'ed(Can be taken care to an extent with Wider tires), other wise it's actually not worthy of being called Poor.
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Old 7th October 2010, 22:20   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
stretch the budget and go for a Sonata Embera CRDi
Did not know there was a Sonata Embera CRDi.
Seems like a great choice, and much more desirable than a Chevy Magnum.
Thanks very much. Seems like I really may be able to find a powerful and affordable diesel after all .
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Old 7th October 2010, 22:23   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kadanaJ View Post
Did not know there was a Sonata Embera CRDi.
Seems like a great choice, and much more desirable than a Chevy Magnum.
Thanks very much. Seems like I really may be able to find a powerful and affordable diesel after all .
And look what I found on carwale for you
Used 2008 Hyundai Sonata Embera 2.0 CRDi (D246316) for sale in Mumbai - CarWale

Check it out the car seems to be in good shape.
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Old 7th October 2010, 22:26   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kadanaJ View Post
Did not know there was a Sonata Embera CRDi.
A quick carwale search throws up at least 3 Embera CRDi's in the Mumbai area, priced between 9.25-10L.
Used Cars - Search used cars available for sale in India - CarWale
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Old 7th October 2010, 22:26   #24
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@ .anshuman
The Vento TDI Highline is out of budget. 9 lakh was already the maximum stretch.
Also VW's cost of ownership is an unknown, but I doubt it will be cheap.

Thanks to akshay1234 and SS-Traveller. Saw the cars on carwale.
I'm really shocked at seeing such low resale prices.
But for someone buying a used car, the low resale value is a good thing.
I remember reading in GTO's article about lateral upgrading.

Quote:
• Choose a depreciation disaster to get most car for the money: This is great news if you are considering a car from the C+ segment (and higher). As they say, the higher you go, the harder you fall. Generally, any car that costs over 10 lakh rupees depreciates like stink. And in a short while too. It's easy to get 3 year old Civics and Corollas for 6.5 - 8 lakhs, 2 year old Honda Accords & Toyota Camrys at 10 – 12 lakh rupees, a 3 year old BMW 3 series for 18 lakh or even a 3 year old Mercedes S-Class for 35 lakh rupees. You can enjoy the benefits of lateral upgrading, no matter what the market segment.

Last edited by kadanaJ : 7th October 2010 at 22:36.
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Old 7th October 2010, 22:43   #25
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Uh oh, I could only find one Sonata CRDi review in the reviews section, and even that is of the Sonata Embera Transform. Assuming not much difference in performance and handling of the two cars.

Once again handling is a complaint.

Quote:
The worst part of this car is the handling and thats all because of that super light steering. The super light steering can scare u while shifting lanes at even 80kph. It will take a lot of time to get used to such kind of light steering and can completely knock u off if u are an enthusiast and love driving. In heavy traffic the light steering might be a boon but on the highway it can scare u once in a while. Suspension is very well sorted out. The front end doesn't take off when the turbo kicks in and doesn't dip much either while hard braking.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...transform.html (Test Driven : All new Hyundai Sonata Transform.)
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Old 7th October 2010, 22:53   #26
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The Transform is a cosmetic & bells-and-whistles upgrade of the Embera, with no difference to the chassis and mechanicals.

Here's a review: Hyundai Sonata Embera CRDi Review.

Here's one more link: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...transform.html (Sonata facelift w/ new interior: now called Sonata 'Transform').

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Old 7th October 2010, 22:59   #27
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My uncle just sold his Sonata Embera CRDi some time back. I know the car pretty well.

Embera CRDi-

Positives-
  • Dirt Cheap Maintenance, Most jobs as cheap as Verna.
  • Expect parts delivery real quick even after the car is discontinued(Check out my Elantra LTR).
  • Very Good Reliablity.
  • Ride, Comfort and Space amongst class best.
  • Brilliant Highway Cruiser.
  • The VGT engine is a performer and Sixth gear helps on Highways.

Negatives-
  • Turbo Lag- Engine is virtually dead under 2000rpm, Unlike Elantra.
  • Handling and Steering not enthusiastic but safe enough.
  • Interiors not worthy of a car sold in this segment.
  • Tall gearing with Six gears means you will be changing constantly, very annoying.
  • Will depreciate very fast.
  • Huge dimensions might prove to painful for some people in city.

Expect 10-11 Kpl City and 13-16 Kpl Highway.
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Old 7th October 2010, 23:00   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kadanaJ View Post
I am aware these cars are not driver oriented, but there aren't that many options for diesels in the sub-9 lakh category.
You could have listed the Vento TDI also in the list, though you say that it is out of budget. That was one of the obvious choices meeting your criteria more than the boats and the dzires, right?

Last edited by clevermax : 7th October 2010 at 23:02.
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Old 7th October 2010, 23:13   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Will depreciate very fast.
Precisely the reason kadanaJ ought to be able to secure one within his budget. And of course, these facts...
Quote:
Dirt Cheap Maintenance, Most jobs as cheap as Verna.
Expect parts delivery real quick even after the car is discontinued(Check out my Elantra LTR).
Very Good Reliablity.
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Old 7th October 2010, 23:26   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kadanaJ View Post

Thanks to akshay1234 and SS-Traveller. Saw the cars on carwale.
I'm really shocked at seeing such low resale prices.
.
Well I forgot to mention the handling wont be as sharp as your civic, but slightly wider tyres will make you feel much more confident. Also im quite sure the one I pointed out on carwale will available for around 9 or so with a little bargaining.
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