[AVR]

Glad to see Ahmedabad on the list
Looking forward to more details. This is a good start from atleast one of the manufacturers.
With the varied terrains that India offers, I see a good off-road ecosystem shaping up:

- Lot of clubs driven by professional/hobby offroaders
- Mfrs talking about lifestyle vehicles
- Mfrs talking about lifestyle events built around their vehicles
-Pay-and-access Offroad trails and vehicles
- Offroad equipment manufacturers giving us more options like what you see in an offroad magazine in the US
-VFM and DIY options for a vehicle as per owner's exact mix-n-match ideas

-Life is good.

And this is all that I want to dream on a Monday morning

End of post.

[fazalaliadil]

Vinod,

Keep in mind that this should not be a profit making venture.
Charge flat 5K for two, per day, which includes...entry, rental, food, water, T shirt, caps(freebies), fuel etc.

The break up:

Entry: 1000
Food and snacks: 500
Freebies: 500
Fuel: 1000
Vehicle rent: 2000

For participants driving their own vehicles and using their own fuel: 3000.

Assessing the damage if any done on part of the driver, marshal or vehicle is an arbitrary and dark gray area zone, it is better not to put off a potential client and defeat the very purpose of brand promotion.

Let the company foot the 'damages bill', the way to minimize damages is by designing a safer track and if possible put in a experienced guy from the company in the passanger seat for guiding an inexperienced driver.
Regards,

[mac187]

Allowing newbies get a taste of 4X4, is a great step in the right direction. As mentioned by Vinod, for Mahindra, its about increasing the market size. But as someone rightly mentioned newbies may get something different into the sport.
Everyone knows that newbies need not get he same trail as an experienced off roader. Getting them to get a feel of the offroading will surely help the offroader community in a long way.And most importantly play their part in making off roading into a sport!

What i mean is, If more people get interested in off roading, manufacturers will sit up and take notice and get better vehicles and get more professionalisum into the sport a la Polo cup.

So the noobs will be doing some good after...

P.S: I am novice in off roading and I look forward for such great initiatives. Thanks M&M.

[Samurai]

This is a great initiative, and I hope the execution will be equally good.

Lending vehicles to the newbie drivers is not a new concept at MGEs, only the renting part is new. It has been happening for years. Most Scorpio 4x4 seen at MGE is usually owned M&M, given out to major sponsors, driven usually by first time offroaders.

I have couple suggestions to make in context of MGE.

1) Make it a two day event, first day being moderate where 2WD can participate, and second day being hardcore needing 4WD. Apart from the initial briefing, hold a serious briefing for the second day where first timers can really understand what 4WD is all about. Can first timers enter TSD rallies without knowing anything about TSD or navigation? Not really. But it happens in MGEs all the time. Make the serious briefing compulsory for people who are driving rental vehicles.

2) Allow vehicles from any manufacturer, that way people can see how other vehicles perform when compared to Mahindra vehicles. M&M shouldn't be so insecure, we all know Mahindra vehicles can hold their own. You can even design the trail to be torque-centric so that Gypsies would look bad.

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by khan_sultan

That's really steep..!!!

Dont think so Khan saab, 5k is very reasonable since we are using the vehicle for an event and that too for a whole day. 10 laps in track they charge 2k?? As i said no additional fine print like anything broken its on you. Only intentional* damage can be footed.

* need to find time to define this Also lil higher price is good to avoid crazy crowds and you know how it goes after that.

[DKG]

What is the objective of this whole exercise? As I see it its to create reasons for the general public to go out and treat themselves to a Mahindra product and enjoy a lifestyle of adventure. So its not really about renting Thars out to people. Hold these events primarily for Mahindra 4x4 owners so that you give them a new experience which hitherto was not possible, and an opportunity to enjoy a certain aspect of their vehicle which they never experienced before.

You want people to buy your product and you are giving them a new and exciting reason to do so. Offroading as a sport will stress vehicles even if you are careful. There's bound to be loads of wear and tear on a vehicle when you offroad it regularly

I would suggest keep off the rental bit as it will cause more problems for you than help. For a start organise the events well and send invites to all the Mahindra 4x4 owners introducing a new world of fun for them and their families.

Continue with your controlled offroad events like the one you did in Hyderabad at a exhibition to give people a flavour of the Thar and Scorpio 4x4. My recommendation is keep rentals out for the moment and focus more on the event management and making sure the fun is safe and exciting.

Introduce a program of certification and slowly create a world of offroad learning for the owner as he graduates from one level of difficulty to another. If all your marshall vehicles are Thars and recovery vehicles are Thars too then you really don't need to worry about giving your product more exposure.

Ferrari does not rent Ferraris at a track so that more people go out and buy a Ferrari. They simply sponsor F1 and win it so that customers go out and buy the car from a company that has a proven record.

Create a team Thar and start participating all across India and also international events. You need to do this with drivers who are good and will bring acclaim to your product.

Remember when you rent a car and make it very affordable what's to stop a family from buying a hatchback for the year round use as they know they can always rent a Thar once or twice a year for the offroad fun and enjoy a hatch for the rest of the year?

Think about it. I plan to buy a Thar. Now if M&M make it easy for me to fly around and simply rent a Thar for offroad fun why should I buy one? To pose on Hyd roads? Not interested. The whole reason for wanting to buy a Thar is to be able to travel long distances in comfort and participate in events. If you make it easy for me to participate in events by renting a car I personally see no reason to buy a Thar. I am happy with my archaic CJ3B for coffee and icecream trips when not offroading !!

[Axe77]

how does one sign up for these things. can anyone please share registration details for the rental category.

thanks

[DKG]

I remember when I recommended a location here in Hyderabad for the MGE we did a recce with the organiser. While the organiser sat with me in my Jeep one of our locals was allowed to drive the Armada 4x4 (i think that was the car that belonged to M&M) and quite obviously was freaking out abusing the car like it was some bumper car. Crashing into trees, just plain careless. In an offroad environment if you are not driving something you don't own you end up abusing it a bit too much.

Most of you will remember the Thar being driven rather rashly in EXAMM just because someone wanted to show off the vehicle's prowess.

You must own the vehicle you drive in offroad events. There are very few people who will treat someone else's property with care as they'd do their own. Most people will abuse the facility.

[fazalaliadil]

Deepak,

"Hold these events primarily for Mahindra 4x4 owners so that you give them a new experience which hitherto was not possible, and an opportunity to enjoy a certain aspect of their vehicle which they never experienced before".

If this event is limited for/ to only already existing Mahindra owners base only, how does the brand grow unless they tap an open market?

"Continue with your controlled offroad events like the one you did in Hyderabad at a exhibition to give people a flavour of the Thar and Scorpio 4x4. My recommendation is keep rentals out for the moment and focus more on the event management and making sure the fun is safe and exciting."

Then it would be the same MGE events held more frequently all over, The think tank needs to be more innovative and graduate to the next and subsequently to higher levels, high time.

"Offroading as a sport will stress vehicles even if you are careful. There's bound to be loads of wear and tear on a vehicle when you offroad it regularly".

The best way to learn swimming is to take a plunge, right? Likewise, unless an newbie is taken out on an off roading track, how will he experience what its all about, which includes wear and tear and maintainability?

"I would suggest keep off the rental bit as it will cause more problems for you than help. For a start organise the events well and send invites to all the Mahindra 4x4 owners introducing a new world of fun for them and their families."

After all they want to brand Thar as a LIFESTYLE VEHICLE. Mahindra has to take chances, and they may not be major damages, as not all events will end in damages to all rented vehicles.

"Ferrari does not rent Ferraris at a track so that more people go out and buy a Ferrari. They simply sponsor F1 and win it so that customers go out and buy the car from a company that has a proven record."

But then Ferrari is not looking for numbers, which Mahindra needs for the Thar to continue to be production. Ferrari spends in their promos in millions, even if it is just in the form of sponsoring or entering their vehicle in F1's.
Ten thousand times much more than what Mahindra could ever lose in one year of damages.

"Create a team Thar and start participating all across India and also international events. You need to do this with drivers who are good and will bring acclaim to your product."

Great suggestion.

"Think about it. I plan to buy a Thar. Now if M&M make it easy for me to fly around and simply rent a Thar for offroad fun why should I buy one? To pose on Hyd roads? Not interested. The whole reason for wanting to buy a Thar is to be able to travel long distances in comfort and participate in events. If you make it easy for me to participate in events by renting a car I personally see no reason to buy a Thar. I am happy with my archaic CJ3B for coffee and icecream trips when not offroading !!"

A very valid point there.

Mahindra should keep this promo for not more than a year, spread across all major cities of India.

The proposed event/ track will not be as prestigious as Dakar, for experienced Indian off roaders to fly to drive the Thar.
Regards,

Originally Posted by DKG

You must own the vehicle you drive in offroad events. There are very few people who will treat someone else's property with care as they'd do their own. Most people will abuse the facility.

This is a very correct observation.

Maal-e muft
Dil-e be reham.

Roughly translated, What comes free will be treated with a careless heart (callous attitude).

The facility is bound to be abused.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by DKG

What is the objective of this whole exercise? As I see it its to create reasons for the general public to go out and treat themselves to a Mahindra product and enjoy a lifestyle of adventure. So its not really about renting Thars out to people. Hold these events primarily for Mahindra 4x4 owners so that you give them a new experience which hitherto was not possible, and an opportunity to enjoy a certain aspect of their vehicle which they never experienced before.

So, what is new then? It will be same old, same old.

Originally Posted by DKG

and quite obviously was freaking out abusing the car like it was some bumper car. Crashing into trees, just plain careless. In an offroad environment if you are not driving something you don't own you end up abusing it a bit too much.

In every MGE, all the sponsors do get to drive Scorpio 4WD vehicles that they don't own. That has been happening all the time.

Originally Posted by DKG

You must own the vehicle you drive in offroad events. There are very few people who will treat someone else's property with care as they'd do their own. Most people will abuse the facility.

That is why we individual owners never lend our 4WD vehicles to strangers, but M&M can do it under marketing budget.

Originally Posted by fazalaliadil

If this event is limited for/ to only already existing Mahindra owners base only, how does the brand grow unless they tap an open market?

Exactly, M&M can use this rental option to attract new customers into enjoying outdoors with Mahindra 4WD vehicles.

[Tejas@perioimpl]

Mahindra will be renting out vehicles which are in stock condition with road tyres. So what level of difficulty does one expect?

[vinod_nookala]

Originally Posted by motocamp

I think one important point we are all overlooking is that unlike the west, we DO NOT have designated off road trails and tracks.

In my opinion and experience this will be the major limiting factor for 4x4 sports in india.

Right now we get away as it is still unregulated, but with bigger and more publicized events coming up, this is bound to be a problem if you get my drift.

True point noted.

Originally Posted by Jaggu

5k per day + fuel by the user, for a Thar Crde is quite reasonable. Regular wear and tear has to be covered. Intentional damage/damage caused due to ignoring the marshals instruction etc should be footed by the user. Darn difficult to implement though. Let me put on my thinking hat and get back to you on this

THAR/ Scorpio is powerful. Suppose some one hits the bumper and breaks it into two. For THAR it may nto cost much , but for a Scorpio it costs me 12 K. Now if i ask him to foot he bill and if the participant says boss i dont have money, then what do i do? Legal is the last option i would consider.

Originally Posted by khan_sultan

Considering that these will be M&M vehicles, I think 2K is a reasonable price for an A/C Scorpio 4x4, 1800 for A/C Bolero & 1750 for Thar. (per day rates) + fuel by user

That's really steep..!!!

Khan have you ever tried renting a self driven car in Bagalore? The rates what you are speaking about are the minimum rates on an hourly basis for on road use driven by the driver of the renting agency.

For the price you mentioned isnt it too much to expect to drive a Scorpio for just about 2k with an additional fuel of about 1000 bucks?

Originally Posted by AVR

Glad to see Ahmedabad on the list
-Life is good.

And this is all that I want to dream on a Monday morning

End of post.

AVR Ahemdbad was on list beacuse many people wanted an event there. Hope you will have a good time.

Originally Posted by fazalaliadil

Vinod,

Keep in mind that this should not be a profit making venture.
Charge flat 5K for two, per day, which includes...entry, rental, food, water, T shirt, caps(freebies), fuel etc.

Let the company foot the 'damages bill', the way to minimize damages is by designing a safer track and if possible put in a experienced guy from the company in the passanger seat for guiding an inexperienced driver.
Regards,

Fazal sir,

This is purely a brand building exercise and hence profitability is the last thing on our mind. Practically a track for 2wd vehicles and 4wd vehicles itself is difficuilt to find and club it with a flag off venue. Again a milder track for hired vehicle is very tough, first to get a track, get additional permissions and manage a different set of track with additional marshals. Very expensive and time taking.

Originally Posted by mac187

Allowing newbies get a taste of 4X4, is a great step in the right direction. As mentioned by Vinod, for Mahindra, its about increasing the market size. But as someone rightly mentioned newbies may get something different into the sport.
Everyone knows that newbies need not get he same trail as an experienced off roader.

Please read above. We keep the trails not at hard core level just to ensure both a Newbie and regular get some amount of wheel spin

Originally Posted by Samurai

This is a great initiative, and I hope the execution will be equally good.

Lending vehicles to the newbie drivers is not a new concept at MGEs, only the renting part is new. It has been happening for years. Most Scorpio 4x4 seen at MGE is usually owned M&M, given out to major sponsors, driven usually by first time offroaders.

I have couple suggestions to make in context of MGE.

1) Make it a two day event, first day being moderate where 2WD can participate, and second day being hardcore needing 4WD. Apart from the initial briefing, hold a serious briefing for the second day where first timers can really understand what 4WD is all about. Can first timers enter TSD rallies without knowing anything about TSD or navigation? Not really. But it happens in MGEs all the time. Make the serious briefing compulsory for people who are driving rental vehicles.

2) Allow vehicles from any manufacturer, that way people can see how other vehicles perform when compared to Mahindra vehicles. M&M shouldn't be so insecure, we all know Mahindra vehicles can hold their own. You can even design the trail to be torque-centric so that Gypsies would look bad.

Valid sugesstions Samurai. We shall concentrate on briefing part this time. Two day event is expensive. Will depen upon how many first timers i get first day and how many think they can handle even though being a first timer.

We shall conduct two day event if the participants are above 50 per day

Originally Posted by DKG

I remember when I recommended a location here in Hyderabad for the MGE we did a recce with the organiser. While the organiser sat with me in my Jeep one of our locals was allowed to drive the Armada 4x4 (i think that was the car that belonged to M&M) and quite obviously was freaking out abusing the car like it was some bumper car. Crashing into trees, just plain careless. In an offroad environment if you are not driving something you don't own you end up abusing it a bit too much.

Most of you will remember the Thar being driven rather rashly in EXAMM just because someone wanted to show off the vehicle's prowess.

You must own the vehicle you drive in offroad events. There are very few people who will treat someone else's property with care as they'd do their own. Most people will abuse the facility.

Very true!! I have numerous examples to prove this.

In hyderabad one guy burnt our winch!! In the same event some body put our Bolero invader vehicle into deep water. Engine died. Expenses came up to 1 lakh for engine rebuild. In mumbai a brand new scorpio was given to a Media guy and clutch was burnt in flat 1 hour. Costed us 10K!!!


There are many many more examples like these. Now. If it is some bodys esle's property they dont even listen to instructions. They splash water that may lead to engine seisure. THAR & Scorpio have expensive engines. How do i cover that?

Originally Posted by DKG

What is the objective of this whole exercise? As I see it its to create reasons for the general public to go out and treat themselves to a Mahindra product and enjoy a lifestyle of adventure. So its not really about renting Thars out to people. Hold these events primarily for Mahindra 4x4 owners so that you give them a new experience which hitherto was not possible, and an opportunity to enjoy a certain aspect of their vehicle which they never experienced before.

You want people to buy your product and you are giving them a new and exciting reason to do so.


I would suggest keep off the rental bit as it will cause more problems for you than help. For a start organise the events well and send invites to all the Mahindra 4x4 owners introducing a new world of fun for them and their families.

Continue with your controlled offroad events like the one you did in Hyderabad at a exhibition to give people a flavour of the Thar and Scorpio 4x4. My recommendation is keep rentals out for the moment and focus more on the event management and making sure the fun is safe and exciting.

Introduce a program of certification and slowly create a world of offroad learning for the owner as he graduates from one level of difficulty to another. If all your marshall vehicles are Thars and recovery vehicles are Thars too then you really don't need to worry about giving your product more exposure.


Create a team Thar and start participating all across India and also international events. You need to do this with drivers who are good and will bring acclaim to your product.

Remember when you rent a car and make it very affordable what's to stop a family from buying a hatchback for the year round use as they know they can always rent a Thar once or twice a year for the offroad fun and enjoy a hatch for the rest of the year?

Think about it. I plan to buy a Thar. Now if M&M make it easy for me to fly around and simply rent a Thar for offroad fun why should I buy one? To pose on Hyd roads? Not interested. The whole reason for wanting to buy a Thar is to be able to travel long distances in comfort and participate in events. If you make it easy for me to participate in events by renting a car I personally see no reason to buy a Thar. I am happy with my archaic CJ3B for coffee and icecream trips when not offroading !!

Valid inputs DKG as always!!

We plan to keep the rental to be 7 K including fuel regardless of vehicle. With registration it will cost 10 K (including vehicle). I think it is value for money considering it convers 4 people in a vehicle!!

We shall revise the cost depending upon the response as well as the expenses we might incurr.

Now rent out a M&M instead of buying it? I dont think people will exercise paying 10 K every time they off road. Once you are convinced about the sport, you would want to have a vehicle of your own conquering the terrain.

Originally Posted by Axe77

how does one sign up for these things. can anyone please share registration details for the rental category.

thanks

Site isnt up yet. Will let you all know once ready.

[DKG]

Originally Posted by vinod_nookala

We plan to keep the rental to be 7 K including fuel regardless of vehicle. With registration it will cost 10 K (including vehicle). I think it is value for money considering it convers 4 people in a vehicle!!

10K for 4 people? and you say it includes Thar, fuel and food? That's a great deal !!

@Fazal the controlled events I referred to are the kind that are setup at an auto expo in a small area with obstacles, not the MGE

[Samurai]

How about offering a chauffeured vehicle to first timers for a lesser price? That way M&M can offer offroad experience with very little risk to their vehicles.

The drivers could be M&M employees or other seasoned/known 4WD owning offroaders who will drive it for free.

[DKG]

Originally Posted by Samurai

How about offering a chauffeured vehicle to first timers for a lesser price? That way M&M can offer offroad experience with very little risk to their vehicles.

Great idea and the ideal way to go about it ! In the UAE where I lived you have desert safaris in offroad vehicles where we sit in as a passenger. Its a terrific experience and coupled with the food and entertainment a really special experience. It was my first experience as a passenger that eventually lured me to the sport.

Most importantly there in dune bashing, as they call it, you risk a rollover if you are not an experienced driver and don't understand how to drive in desert sand. Not to forget a newbie will sink the car to the diffs in 10 seconds as he would have no clue how to drive in such conditions.