[jeepster]

Originally Posted by Ravveendrra

2. The forest department had enough time to gather personnel from several districts and get them to the spot.
This could have happened only if they had advance notice. A call from a local villager at 11.00 a.m. could not have precipitated action on the scale launched by the MFD (Maharashtra Forest Department).

3. The MFD guys were talking about looking for the jeeps since morning.

4. They saw one participant (bob-tailed Jeep) on the highway and asked him where he was going and where he was coming from. If they were rushing to the spot on definite evidence they would have ignored him or stopped him and impounded his vehicle.

5. If it was a call from a local - a few rangers / guards would have come directly to the spot first and then called for reinforcements if they felt the need. To rush over two dozen MFD personnel, they needed a co-ordinated operation with a very senior officer co-ordinating things.

12. We did see some cattle in the area. They were not disturbed. The question the presence of cattle raises is: If it was forest land, what were the cattle doing there? The Forest Act prescribes a higher punishment for entering into forest with cattle. The presence of the cattle itself is proof that the area used was private land.

13. There was a small stretch of forest (on one slope) thereafter there was private land and then there a dargah further up. Is using the track through the forest land (only access to the private land and the dargah) to get to them such a grave crime?

15. Who brought the journalists? How did they have time to get them if they were acting on a phone call from a local? The tone of the news reports (using the terms news and reports loosely of course), shows a clever mix of "rich" (always good targets), "environment" (not something many people understand, but which they think they have to support), "Supreme Court" (now let the reporter try explain what the Hon'ble court said), "Injury to youth" (always a tear-jerker), "villagers" (every aspiring politicians favourite mantra). As far as I could make out the notification of the Matheran eco-sensitive zone is to regulate development in all areas falling within the zone.

16. Trees felled, saplings uprooted, littering etc. the absence of photographs is telling. These things did not happen. Most participants were scrupulous about not littering. Any litter dropped by careless participants was picked up by the O team.

Increasing number of RAVE parties in Maharashtra is the main reason behind this incident IMO.

Forest Department is also on high alert for tiger hunters.

Red alert in Maharashtra as poachers get order for 25 tigers - Times Of India

This is the main reason behind this incident.

Maha forest minister's son flouts wildlife rules with impunity : India, News - India Today

The Hindu : Today's Paper / IN SCHOOL : Maharashtra forest minister

1. the event details were available on public forum Team-bhp.com
2. the police department & their network is always on lookout
3. the hotel staff must have the event detail
4. maybe they gave the tip to the Forrest guys
5. thats why MFD guys were looking for JEEPS & followed ONE such JEEP
6. the reason behind journalists & 2 dozen MFD guys is that they EXPECTED the 50+ JEEPS probably with WEAPONS & 1 or 2 DEAD ANIMALS.
7. only because of presence of cows in the forest it dose not become privet land.
8. the Forest guys usually dont bother with local farmers.
   if you see few cows that probably mean they belonged to a poor farmer.
9. yes, even going trough forest is a offense but mostly overlooked by officers
10. now days police or Forest officers always keep a witness for their benefits mostly journalists

Yes i agree with Journalists telling half the truth.

I am happy to know that no one was hurt / no vehicles impounded / participants are same.

Originally Posted by speedy

It was not Participants who have mentioned this but an "O Team" member.

Sir Participants were informed by a member of the O Team during his briefing speech, that all permissions that is forest, Police and land owner permissions were taken by them, participants went by the O Teams word.

I know that O team member & the offroader he was refereeing to.
but its not true.

yes its fault of the O team that they didnt know the Land & didnt had all the necessary papers.

but they know how to blame others.

Originally Posted by V-16

I stopped to help but they saw my vehicle had no place to put the poor guy lying down and the people also thanked me for stopping and asked me to move on.


1) No one entered the restricted land on purpose. I was informed that the owner of the private land had given his permission to use his land, which was a meadow type, slushy land, devoid of any real vegetation except grazing grass, leave alone trees or even bushes.

4) There was no board or signage anywhere on the trail and i mean anywhere so no one could dream of it being as a restricted land.

In fact care was taken to ensure that only private land was entered upon. Unfortunately all of us realized that a certain part of the trail leading to this land was not private and that caused the problem

5) The officials told us that they had a tip off from higher ups that there was a hunting party entering into the areas and that is the reason so many of them had turned up on a holiday.

They were of course relieved and a bit miffed at not having found real culprits or poachers but what looked like a band of people out with their spouses, women and children for a day out in the open in brilliant weather. They were also visibly relieved that we were not a hunting party.

6) Even they were not clear as to what part is private and what part is not but were certain that there were some access areas which were not and to get to that private land one could not drive through. This was news to all of us.

9) A fellow participant and a dear friend Jeeper (name withheld and will not be revealed so kindly those who know about it, also keep mum on the identity) was also stopped at the Kolhapur border as there was a tip off from the headquarters of that area with the Jeep make, colour, description and registration number to stop and strip search his vehicle. It was supposed to have been carrying weapons and bombs!! The poor guy was troubled no end till the officials realized this as being a false alarm and swore to trace the guy who tippped them off wrongly.

Now would you all still laugh at this as a stray incident and say that people are imagining? This certainly cannot be the work of a villager. Not wanting to probe,lest some real muck comes out, i have ben disillusioned by the general attitude and blame game that prevails. I guess we should work on getting this corrected first.

Now we can all sit down and either criticize why anyone went into non private land and all that and whose fault it is and begin with "I told you so".
The fact is that this should be taken as a learning case and not something to point fingers at. No one is stupid to put others into trouble knowingly.
I would say it is unfortunate and we should learn from it so that in the future we are more careful in being hoodwinked by fly by wire operators and middlemen.

History is full with examples.

i have clearly advocated that all sorts of permissions be taken before.

The unfortunate part is that no one realized that this is non private land else im sure no one would have ventured even close to it.

We can start Green Otrs and for that i suggest the next OTR, wherever taking place, the participants please ensure from within yourselves to start by obtaining a PUC certificate for you vehicles. A small step but lets start!

lets stop the dissection of the unfortunate event and lets get on.
No one is going to gain from pointing fingers.

You did the right thing by offering help to injured guy.

1. IMO O team Failed
2. O team didnt know the land
3. offroad route was not final
4. most of the times there is only one board in the official entrance of the forest
5. IMO the tip was for Hunting event not OTR
6. yes these people are not well educated & as you said they didnt know the boundary of the forest
7. the bomb tip must be given by the local as such details can be given by the person has seen that vehicle. (very unfortunate)
8. THE O TEAM MEMBER STARTED THE BLAME GAME FIRST.
9. yes HISTORY IS FULL OF EXAMPLES but people dont learn from it.
10. MAY be O team had permissions but they didnt knew the rout.
11. with the past experience this otr should have been THE GREEN OTR

I hope at-least this time people learn from this unfortunate event.

As a LAW student i can say that color/engine swap wide tyres/fog laps/any mod is illegal.

In other words thing REAL JEEP is illegal.

rgds,
Nikhil

[fazalaliadil]

Dear Jeepers,

The O team and the participants did have a great time together, in spite of the odds.

A lot of comments from guys who do not know the ground realities, we were there and know what transpired between us and the forest guys which I choose not to mention here.

We were most courteous to the villagers en route.

This is a case of media trying to get mileage and make things go out of proportion, to the extent of exaggerating and lying.

This area is neither a 'Reserve Forest' nor a 'National Park', it is devoid of any wildlife.

When 50-100 gypsies are allowed into Reserves and National parks twice a day to generate revenue, in forests that are home to scores of endangered species, why are not questions asked then?

Friends who have not been present there physically, kindly refrain from making sweeping judgements based on what the media has reported, as you know the levels of distortion of facts they indulge in.
Regards,

[Sudarshan]

Originally Posted by fazalaliadil

Dear Jeepers,

A lot of comments from guys who do not know the ground realities, we were there and know what transpired between us and the forest guys which I choose not to mention here.

Those details will come out & should come out -- nothing to hide if nothing has gone wrong

This is a case of media trying to get mileage and make things go out of proportion, to the extent of exaggerating and lying.

Sue them Please , I am ready to be a witness - I have relied on their reports to be true & made my mind accordingly --- If You people are getting defamed, I am ready to support you . But dont think they lied , Sakal is a respected organization for years -- they do check before publishing such things .

This area is neither a 'Reserve Forest' nor a 'National Park', it is devoid of any wildlife.

Please Sir be safe with such statements

When 50-100 gypsies are allowed into Reserves and National parks twice a day to generate revenue, in forests that are home to scores of endangered species, why are not questions asked then?

Sir with due respect , two wrongs wont make one right thing

Friends who have not been present there physically, kindly refrain from making sweeping judgements based on what the media has reported, as you know the levels of distortion of facts they indulge in.
Regards,

OK tell us the full story , uncut version -- I trust you & ready to Apologize if necessary -- but no ifs & buts please

Fazal Saab , what ever interaction I have with you , I can confidently trust & Respect you

So no hard feelings for this errand post please

Sudarshan

[V-16]

Fazal Bhai has hit the nail on the head.
I Dont think theres anything new left for discussion here. Almost everyone has given their opinion and everyone has a right to, which must be respected. If anyone wants to believe someone then thats his prerogative. All the best, i have nothing more to say.

I would say that just forget discussing this issue and beating a dead horse from here on and lets discuss the future on the lines of what lessons one can learn from this.

Lets move on with the thread but on on the topic of how ondividual otrs are killing team spirit. For those who were there it is coming out of our ears and is painful when someone does an erroneous dissection of the facts.

Chalo kuch aur baat kartien hain

[satan]

I wasnt present this year at the Mcube on but i did get a fair download of what transpired there. What happened was unfortunate and not sure the O team can be held accountable. Infact I did hear that there was a strong display of leadership by the O team when things got diificult with the officials.

These things happen and our over-eager authorities are always waitiing to make a quick buck. Infact this happened in Lonavala last year too on our way back from Amby Valley after EXAMM, but at that point the authorities werent as organized as they and we managed to give them the slip.

Time to put this discussion behind us, pick up the learnings (if any) and move on.

[Ravveendrra]

Originally Posted by fazalaliadil

Dear Jeepers,

The O team and the participants did have a great time together, in spite of the odds.
...........

Regards,

Originally Posted by V-16

Fazal Bhai has hit the nail on the head.
I Dont think theres anything new left for discussion here. Almost everyone has given their opinion and everyone has a right to, which must be respected. If anyone wants to believe someone then thats his prerogative. All the best, i have nothing more to say.

I would say that just forget discussing this issue and beating a dead horse from here on and lets discuss the future on the lines of what lessons one can learn from this.

Lets move on with the thread but on on the topic of how ondividual otrs are killing team spirit. For those who were there it is coming out of our ears and is painful when someone does an erroneous dissection of the facts.

Chalo kuch aur baat kartien hain

I agree, we are now beating a dead horse here, funny that guys who were there seem to be on one side and guys who were not are on the other!

Like Fazal saab said, it was a great meet. As Gogi says, let us move on. Logical conclusion - let us have a report and let the pictures do the talking!

I have taken the liberty of starting a thread: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ex...cs-report.html

Please move further discussion, reports, pics, videos etc. there and let us not clutter this thread any more.

Cheers and thanks.

[SPIKE ARRESTOR]

With some inputs from members from the organizing committee and some participants it has now become slightly clear why / how this fiasco happened.

As it has been said earlier that not everything published in the newspapers is true (I agree partially), similarly not everything posted here is true (this is the truth). Many participants, satisfied / dissatisfied do not care about posting their experiences in online forums. A few, who post may not necessarily bring out the truth, this can go either ways. Many a times even a goofed up event with lots of pitfalls goes unreported or is hushed down due to reasons unknown, why? In simple language, sometimes even Rakhi Sawant is depicted as Aishwarya Rai with well done make up, why?

The discussion centers around why such an incident happened, its repercussions and how it can be best avoided. I am neither for or against any organizer or person. The point in question is how incidents like these effect the offroading community and the sport, which needs to be answered. Is this wrong on our part as enthusiasts and well wishers of this sport to ask such pertinent questions?

Yes, some of us did not attend these events so it does not affect us directly. But it does affect us indirectly, ask me how? For people like us, offroading is a means to unwind ourselves from the regular chores, go out in the open and enjoy the nature. When I was in Nasik, we regularly used to go out in small groups. As a group of nature lovers, neither we want to organize events neither we want to host a boisterous party outdoors. What we only expect is the freedom to go out with our family and friends and have a good time - without causing inconvenience to villagers / locals. Do you think such outings will be possible, specially after the recent incident? This is our main concern, rest, whether someone organizes an event or does something else, that is none of our business or concern. But if such activities affect us, then it is definitely our concern.

So those of you, trying to put across the message, that those who did not participate or were physically present, should keep quiet - sorry, that is not happening !

Spike

[Sudarshan]

Originally Posted by Ravveendrra

I agree, we are now beating a dead horse here,

Ya true , the horse is dead , now I fear the ghost haunting us ( the others ) . Every time I go out doors I will be Looking for the forest dept sign board / boundary marker . This is not funny , this is scary

funny that guys who were there seem to be on one side and guys who were not are on the other!

Everyone knows why .

As Gogi says, let us move on.

Yes He is 100% right & I respect him

Logical conclusion - let us have a report and let the pictures do the talking!

With due respect & Keeping in mind the Harassment you guys faced what you are saying is Wrong --
Logical conclusion is People come forward accept responsibility & promise to go clean in future -- no blame games , mind well 50- 60 people got harassed

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

As it has been said earlier that not everything published in the newspapers is true (I agree partially), similarly not everything posted here is true (this is the truth). Many participants, satisfied / dissatisfied do not care about posting their experiences in online forums. A few, who post may not necessarily bring out the truth, this can go either ways.

100 % correct

The discussion centers around why such an incident happened, its repercussions and how it can be best avoided. I am neither for or against any organizer or person. The point in question is how incidents like these effect the offroading community and the sport, which needs to be answered. Is this wrong on our part as enthusiasts and well wishers of this sport to ask such pertinent questions?

+ 1 to this Additionally for me some event or Mcube even is not important --I am more worried about the Trend being set

What we only expect is the freedom to go out with our family and friends and have a good time == Do you think such outings will be possible, specially after the recent incident? This is our main concern, rest, whether someone organizes an event or does something else, that is none of our business or concern. But if such activities affect us, then it is definitely our concern.

True

For those who want to know my thinking please refer my earlier post here ,I had expressed my concerns Exactly one year back here http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ex...ml#post2424033

I neither have time nor the will to comment on what went wrong at Mcube , Its History I am worried about future

Sudarshan

[fazalaliadil]

Originally Posted by fazalaliadil

Friends who have not been present there physically, kindly refrain from making sweeping judgements based on what the media has reported, as you know the levels of distortion of facts they indulge in.

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

So those of you, trying to put across the message, that those who did not participate or were physically present, should keep quiet - sorry, that is not happening !
Spike

Dear Spike,

A person who can read simple English can see the distortion between (in bold) my statement and your interpretation of the same.

Unnecessarily Confrontational! Please feel free to continue.

Originally Posted by Sudarshan

Those details will come out & should come out -- nothing to hide if nothing has gone wrong

But dont think they lied , Sakal is a respected organization for years -- they do check before publishing such things .

Please Sir be safe with such statements

Sir with due respect , two wrongs wont make one right thing

Fazal Saab , what ever interaction I have with you , I can confidently trust & Respect you

So no hard feelings for this errand post please

Dear Sudarshan,

The details of the incident on this fora is not for me to make available as I do not constitute the O team.

With due respects, Sakal surely must be a respected organization like you state. But since they were not present, what was reported by them is the version of the forest dept.

Originally Posted by mohan

Flouting Supreme Court Directives and offroading in "Prohibited Matheran Eco-sensitive Zone"

Going by the Marathi to English translation by Mohan, I feel it is clear that it is not a Reserve or National Park.

Very true that two wrongs won't make one right.
Our entering the forest land was unintentional, in contrast my focus was on the planned tours in the National Parks and Reserves.

Thank you sincerely for your kind words, what is the need for any any hard feelings?
[/quote]

Originally Posted by jeepster

Yes i agree with Journalists telling half the truth.

Dear Nikhil,

It is not the half truth that is worrying but the other half.

Originally Posted by V-16

I would say that just forget discussing this issue and beating a dead horse from here on and lets discuss the future on the lines of what lessons one can learn from this.

Gogi bhai,
This is what should be happening and not this.

Originally Posted by fazalaliadil

Suggestions to keep the sport alive, anybody?

Again, lets try anew.
Regards,

[SPIKE ARRESTOR]

Originally Posted by Sudarshan

I neither have time nor the will to comment on what went wrong at Mcube , Its History I am worried about future

Well said, this is our main concern.

Originally Posted by fazalaliadil

Dear Spike,

A person who can read simple English can see the distortion between (in bold) my statement and your interpretation of the same.

Unnecessarily Confrontational! Please feel free to continue.

Dear fazalaliadil,

Not sure if my understanding of English is up to your standards but my statement is based on a few other comments posted earlier, read carefully. Also, my views are not entirely influenced by the news in Sakaal but from the views I got from some of the people who were present there (don't ask me the names I will not tell it).

Why are we trying to muddle up and hide the facts? It is fine if one makes a mistake, but then sleeping over it so that you repeat it next morning is not right. When we realize such a problem occurred, we should look at what we can do to avoid such things in the future. Please note, this has nothing to do with a particular event but to the community as a whole.

If you feel voicing my opinion is "Unnecessarily Confrontational", please feel free to think so. I don't mind.

Spike

[svsantosh]

What did MGE guys do differently in Lonavala a few weeks ago? And other places like rajastan, ooty, kerala, etc too... Vinod.N - is it shareable here? The procedures, et all?

Edit:

While the starting of the problem is a Grey area to non-witnesses, due credit for not landing in bigger trouble like Jail is due to OTeam. Can the negotiation points be shared here? Could be good for future use. Leave out under-table details, but please share other pointers...

Another question - assuming some police record (Not FIR) has been created now, will aspiring VISA/Foreign travellers take a BLACK MARK hit on their police records? Will the PCC/VISA process take a hit?

Also - in case of future 'call-for' from cops, do guys from AP/KA have to travel to mumbai for it? And show the jeeps too?!!

[dwaraka]

Originally Posted by svsantosh

What did MGE guys do differently in Lonavala a few weeks ago? And other places like rajastan, ooty, kerala, etc too... Vinod.N - is it shareable here? The procedures, et all?


Another question - assuming some police record (Not FIR) has been created now, will aspiring VISA/Foreign travellers take a BLACK MARK hit on their police records? Will the PCC/VISA process take a hit?

Also - in case of future 'call-for' from cops, do guys from AP/KA have to travel to mumbai for it? And show the jeeps too?!!

Santosh, you are trying to put fear into offroading aspirants. Discussion here is on what we problem we could face from local authorities and what precautions O'team has to take to avoid uncomfortable situations. Let's reside over the issue.

As for your question on criminal record and so on, if the FIR is filed, then there is chance of getting penalised. Else, it is clear case of warning and penatly for offence. I hope I am correct else, stand to correct.

[AVR]

Few points from a participant's view:
> I was a participant at the much-discussed OTR.
> I thoroughly enjoyed the first day and a half and would love to come back again!
> I missed out on a few obstacles and ended up waiting in a long convoy of vehicles but it was fine as I was with many people I have become good friends with over the past few years
> The issue was serious enough for us to be "grounded" at a 4-star hotel. Not so much of a hassle
> The O-team was obviously not aware we'll run into this issue but at the same time was fully involved in solving the mess which they eventually did
> Let's not forget the O-team aren't really full-time event organizers who do offroad events for a living. They are a group of offroaders who happen to be in one of the most beautiful areas of India and are enthusiastic enough to invite the rest of India for a few days of great fun. I'll ignore the monetary part because even if it were for-profit there isn't a fortune to be made!
> I went there to offroad with people who are friends and others who became friends. I wouldn't like to be a hard-bargaining customer where I crib about missing out on a few hours of fun and not getting my money's worth.
> As time went by, tempers did rise and rightly so but never did I see an organizer shirk responsibility. Totally appreciate that O-team Guys!
> The receipt given by the forest officials closes the topic as nobody can be punished twice for the same thing.
> Will I come back next year? Hell yeah! If I were on the O-team, I would surely ensure I don't have to go through the same kind of hassles again and hedge myself against such issues. Am sure they'll take note of the same.

Now an offroader's view:
> Was it avoidable? - Hopefully it's a lesson learnt for everyone here. We don't have to do every mistake ourselves to learn from it. Let's all tread carefully and ensure we don't find ourselves in similar situations again. Anywhere.
> How does it impact others? - With the media blowing up the issue with all the masala already, Jeepers are bound to be in the eye of the law for sometime. All the more reason to tread carefully. Apologies if any of you get hauled up because of the heat.
> Where does the offroading community stand? - Divided. Guys, it started off as a hobby. An obsession perhaps? Fine. But let's not make this similar to the work-life with the politics, the finger-pointing, the activism, confrontational tones, 'desire' to know the truth as if our lives depended on it. It's ok to not like each other or their choice of vehicle mods but let's not use such times to get back at them.
If you think I am referring to you then yes I am and please take it as a request to chill out rather than argue further.

The monsoons are here (apart from Gujarat) and let's have more threads showing beautiful locations and jeeps! Wasn't that the point of this section anyways?

Cheers,
Adi

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by Sudarshan

Those details will come out & should come out -- nothing to hide if nothing has gone wrong

Originally Posted by Sudarshan

OK tell us the full story , uncut version -- I trust you & ready to Apologize if necessary -- but no ifs & buts please

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

similarly not everything posted here is true (this is the truth).

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

Why are we trying to muddle up and hide the facts? It is fine if one makes a mistake, but then sleeping over it so that you repeat it next morning is not right.

You both are very very right.

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

Also, my views are not entirely influenced by the news in Sakaal but from the views I got from some of the people who were present there (don't ask me the names I will not tell it).

So let's start with you. As you said, no muddling up or hiding the facts. So reveal the facts told to you from your credible sources. Also tell us who they are, don't hide them, that will prove that your info is credible. The truth shall set us free.

[Ravveendrra]

Originally Posted by svsantosh

Another question - assuming some police record (Not FIR) has been created now, will aspiring VISA/Foreign travellers take a BLACK MARK hit on their police records? Will the PCC/VISA process take a hit?

Also - in case of future 'call-for' from cops, do guys from AP/KA have to travel to mumbai for it? And show the jeeps too?!!

Sir, perhaps you missed the following points in my earlier post.

Originally Posted by Ravveendrra

....

1. Police were not involved.

.......

10. No vehicles were impounded. Not a scrap of paper was issued by the MFD other than a compounding receipt for entering forest land.

......

I hope that the matter stands cleared and the bogey of police, case, record, summons, warrant etc. is laid to rest.

Originally Posted by dwaraka

Santosh, you are trying to put fear into offroading aspirants. Discussion here is on what we problem we could face from local authorities and what precautions O'team has to take to avoid uncomfortable situations. Let's reside over the issue.

As for your question on criminal record and so on, if the FIR is filed, then there is chance of getting penalised. Else, it is clear case of warning and penatly for offence. I hope I am correct else, stand to correct.

I agree with Dwaraka.

Just to add - as long as you do not willingly and wantonly break the law, you are safe. In the case of forests, do not pick up any plant or animal matter. No flowers or sandalwood twigs or orchids or ferns or feathers for the folks back home. No littering etc.

Cheers,