[svsantosh]

Originally Posted by dwaraka

Santosh, you are trying to put fear into offroading aspirants. Discussion here is on what we problem we could face from local authorities and what precautions O'team has to take to avoid uncomfortable situations. Let's reside over the issue.

As for your question on criminal record and so on, if the FIR is filed, then there is chance of getting penalised. Else, it is clear case of warning and penatly for offence. I hope I am correct else, stand to correct.

Sir - Why shouldnt the reality of such situations be discussed here? We saw the reality of bad driving when 2 jeeps rolled over in Bangy last year, i think this is also a part of the risk, or no? Better to be informed and take a good judgement call than go blindly into something and mess up ones future.

In the other Arka's thread, a gentleman from Goa posted a exhaustive list on preparing a automobile event. I think a few of the points may have been genuinely missed here and hence the current issue. Who would have thought of getting a collectors and magistrate approval for a day of OTR? I mean written/Govt stamped approval! I havent heard of it... Looks like the yearly Rally circuit around India goes thru all that steps - I think those steps would make the overall cost a super high #, but no legal hassles post the event...

[SPIKE ARRESTOR]

Originally Posted by Samurai

You both are very very right.

So let's start with you. As you said, no muddling up or hiding the facts. So reveal the facts told to you from your credible sources.

Why not we start with you? First things first, why the thread on a particular event disappeared overnight? If there was not something seriously wrong why should a thread go under the covers all of a sudden? Have seen posts getting deleted, edited but a thread of this sort, disappearing? Seems strange to me and a lot of us here, though many will not open their mouth on this due to various reasons (some of them very well known to you).

Tell us the truth, I hope it will set us all free.

Also tell us who they are, don't hide them, that will prove that your info is credible. The truth shall set us free.

I don't want to name anyone because neither is it good on my part nor will it do any good to the people involved.

Spike

[Sudarshan]

Originally Posted by Samurai

You both are very very right.

So let's start with you. As you said, no muddling up or hiding the facts. So reveal the facts told to you from your credible sources. Also tell us who they are, don't hide them, that will prove that your info is credible. The truth shall set us free.

Why dont we call the O Team & have the correct version ( Assuming they wont hide )

Why you Just want Info from spike ?? because he has asked Uncomfortable Questions ??

When My Number is going to come ?? I didnt Organize an event , some one else did , who could be better for such explanations you seek ?

& If I need to present facts that you require -- I may need to File an RTI so High up ,from where the alleged Tip off itself has come . ( May be the Forest Minister ?? )

Leave it Sir as Gogi & Fazal bhai said

Sudarshan

[dwaraka]

Originally Posted by svsantosh

Sir - Why shouldnt the reality of such situations be discussed here? We saw the reality of bad driving when 2 jeeps rolled over in Bangy last year, i think this is also a part of the risk, or no? Better to be informed and take a good judgement call than go blindly into something and mess up ones future.

Santosh,

You have expressed specific concern over visa, future implications w.r.t. Police. Hence, my reply mentioning instilling fear in aspirant. Rest of the things are precautions.

I do remember 2 jeeps roll overs. But they were not bad driving, but over confidence of driver. We were cautioning from the start. Once, the incident happened, these Drivers fell in line. Everything is a lesson.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

Why not we start with you? First things first, why the thread on a particular event disappeared overnight?

Why me? I am not claiming to know the truth here. In fact, I know nothing about this incident apart from what is mentioned in this thread. I was away at Wayanad OTR, and I haven't spoken to anybody who attended MCube yet. That thread was removed temporarily by request of OP, it will be restored soon.

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

I don't want to name anyone because neither is it good on my part nor will it do any good to the people involved.

Ah, but you don't want to extend the same courtesy to the organizers who worked so hard to put together the event?

[khan_sultan]

Friends, let's be real -- we don't live in a perfect world and hence there would be mistakes, oversights etc. Going into forest land (etc etc) with 2-3 jeeps is equally wrong as going with 50 jeeps. Those who want to go and offroad in small groups will still manage to do so without any issues. It's a democracy out there and to each his own -- large groups or small groups : choose your liking.

We are sure that the O-team will learn from this and next time do an even better job. From what i hear, majority of the participants look back at the event with nice things to say about the O-Team -- especially almost ALL the people who drove from different states to be part of this. For them it is meeting the fellow offroaders that is the key part combined with offroading in this terrain. For sure there are bound to be issues here and there. Take them in stride and move on.

The O-team organized the event for fellow offroaders. They put in lots of effort in doing so. Honestly, organizing is a thankless job and most people do get involved only for the love of the sport and to get fellow offroaders together.

At this time, they need support from all fellow offroaders and not just finger pointing -- that they did this wrong and that wrong and didn't think of this and that.

@ to the O-Team: Keep your spirits high and move ahead. You know what's need to be done -- you guys are not kids. At times it is good to ignore the noise that some people love creating or shedding crocodile tears about their self proclaimed love for off-roading.

[vikramvicky1984]

Couldn't resist posting .

A lot of discussion is going on whether the "O" team were responsible for whatever happenned or not.

I am a novice here and dropped out of Mcube at the last moment due to urgent personal issues and do not know what actually happenned. Based on what I read on tbhp this morning, I have certain points to make.

I would urge everyone to ponder over few things before making all the comments here:

1. Firstly, where does all this bashing lead to!! Is the idea here to provide the MCube team and others to learn from mistakes OR to make them disheartened and discourage fellow jeepers throughout the country from organising further such events. Being 4X4 lovers, do we want people to come forward and have many more such events in all parts of the country or not. Can't we simply stick to what we call constructive feedback.

2. Doubting intention of the organisers: Mistakes happen with all of us, I would be genuinely concerned if it was so on part of the organisers. If it was so, please point it out directly with facts. To me, regular off roaders in different parts of the country organise such events to show their terrain, vehicles, promote off roading, catch up and learn offline with people they have only met in cyber space, get newbies like me to know about it better. Should we bash them or help them so that they do better next time!! it's the spirit of the sport and intention that should matter most

3. Was this a concert or an event with a profit motive and are the organisers professional event managers: We should differentiate between a rock concert or cricket match gone bad and a event like this. Okay we paid in both cases. But this wasn't a profit making event, Charges were minimal. Shouldn't we not consider the effort the O teams all over the country take in making it a success. Just imagine the time,effort and money they put in to ensure a good weekend for all of us. They have their own jobs to do for a living as well. They are not professional event managers who do this for a living. They may not have missed out on getting certain permissions or forseeing some events that finally happenned. Isn't it a learning process and is anything perfect!!
Is it morally right on our part!

RTI, forest minister,press, media, FIR, law, team failed, who is to balme, lawyer know legal blah blah......Friends if one is a lawyer, another is a Manager/ businessman/bureaucrat/politician/ mafia/multi millionare etc etc in real life. Over here can't we just stick to being common Indians who share a legal passion for 4X4's. We love cars and respect the consititution and people of India. We unknowingly committed a mistake and paid up the required fine and vowed not to repeat. PERIOD


4. Trust and Bonhomie among tbhpians: How many times have fellow bhpians helped each others with checking out vehicles in other cities, sourcing spares, mechanics, going out for PDIs. they have taken out precious time to help a stranger just because he loves cars. The Moderator insists on putting information on threads rather then PM so that we share whatever we know with everyone.

Two personal experiences I would like to quote

I had saved since i started working in 2008 and was looking for an W124. A well known bhpian helped me source a w124 finally after 2 years of search. i had given up after searching over 50 cars and PM'ed him in depression though he didn't know me. He stopped me from buying lemeons and helped me for a long time giving his feedback on each car I found. He finally helped me find a car through his contacts and also helped me with a mechanic and all spare parts. The car lover in me would have died if I had got a lemon or had he not helped me throughout.

I donot have a 4X4 as of now and don"t have enough resources to get one anytime soon. Still the "O" members invite me each time and ensure I get seat in a jeep to enjoy the event ( their own jeeps do not participate). I haven't ever met them except the events in my 2 years in Mumbai.

So suppose the spare part dealer or the mechanic recommended fleeces me with a few bucks or this time i could not get a seat at Mcube for some reasons. So what am I supposed to do, Shout and take digs at the event at the people who helped me earlier but could not do this time! Was it a help in good faith or a business deal where I have a right to DEMAND!! I start a thread here and bash them publicly again. Okay they would be finally cleared of the blame if it was not there but would that person not think : " Why the hell did I help this unknown boy spending my own time and money and what did I gain.. bhalai ka zamana nahi raha!!"

Will people assist anyone again here in future! Will not people not be strongly discouraged to hold such events in future!
If Sidhu Dhaba gave bsour jalebi during tbhp meet and we bash a fellow member who had organised on the thread who will have the courage to organise the next meet!

Where does this lead to. An important point in personal and professional life is to " praise in public and reprimand in private". Words once said cannot be taken back, shouldn't we be a little more careful before we speak.

Please ask yourself just one question: Do we want more events like this everywhere or not!

I certainly do and will praise the "O" team for their efforts and intentions and feel sorry for them whatever unfortunate happenned. Also point out what was really good at the event and how it was significantly better than last year.

I go to a car event with an expectation to learn and have a good time. I leave my ego and baggage at my office because I am here to have a good time, not to show off or act pricey because I have the knowledge and moolah to possess a real cool customised vehicle and I paid up and something went wrong. Such people remind me of numerous inviduals who shout at waiters in 5 stars or attendants in AC bogeys because they did not get the respect they "believe" the command


I know they are reasonable and responsible bunch of people who have deep passion for this sport and would buck them up/give constructive feedback/assist to ensure that they come back with a better event next time.

I don't know anyone else who invite jeepless people like me with so much respect to such events. I really doubt if a professional event manager would ever let me in.


One question to all participants:" Did you ask the O team about how much fine they paid and offered to chip in for that if it was a substantially large amount and said "chalta hai yaar, take it easy,sab kuch pe control nahi ho sakta apna, hota rehta hai yeh sab life mein, next year better karengey" rather than adding to their woes. Just imagine what they would have been going through while dealing with the forest officials

I know my post is haphazard and isn't exactly concise. Couldn't plan writing it like a business report.
Thanks to everyone who read through

[gsferrari]

Some people just can't resist kicking a man when he is down...nothing new.

Hearing good things about the Day-1 event and it is a pity everyone didn't get to enjoy the tough sections of the trail on Day-2. I missed the event because of work and the fact that I sold my 4X4 right before the event. I'll be there next year...looking forward to M-Cube 2013!

[Desmosedici]

I too think that what has happened has happened and discussion should be closed now. The O-Team has many individuals who love the sport and also help fellow newbies like me in understanding the vehicles, the techniques etc. Public bashing never works and is never appreciated. Even though i got the 4x4 this year (from gsferrari who posted above ), i couldnt make it but i do know that a lot goes in getting these events up and running and would really hope that these events continue to happen.

Cheers to the O Team for their efforts.

[Sudarshan]

Dear All --

there is a small word called --- SORRY -- it ends everything Successfully & Peacefully -- it ends hard feelings -- it dissolves situations

But It takes , what it Takes

The O team would have said that early --- Much before .

Only Gogi Singh expressed that here -- I respect him for that .

Where are the other O brothers ?

SORRY guys -- I touched a wrong issue . Shouldn't have done that .

Some one called >>kicking a man when he is down.<< its very painful for me ,I don't do that .

Again SORRY If I had Kicked a fallen solder .

This IS my last post on the Topic of Mcube -- I will comment on other relevant though .

Regards

Sudarshan

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by svsantosh

What did MGE guys do differently in Lonavala a few weeks ago? And other places like rajastan, ooty, kerala, etc too... Vinod.N - is it shareable here? The procedures, et all?

What's in a brand? Everything, known name = easy to get the approvals etc Plus more funding. Also they are more cautious from my experience, but they also have to go through hell to get things done. Its not that easy as it looks from outside but having an larger machinery and professionals do help.

Originally Posted by svsantosh

Another question - assuming some police record (Not FIR) has been created now, will aspiring VISA/Foreign travellers take a BLACK MARK hit on their police records? Will the PCC/VISA process take a hit?

Woaah!! First of all there was no fir etc, it was the forest dept who settled the matter with appropriate fines. Mere FIR does not put you in black list, unless its a serious criminal offence. Dont be so paranoid

[gsferrari]

Hi Sudarshan, judging by the fact that you quoted my post here on a Facebook page and added your derisive comments (think i wouldnt find out?) clearly underlines your intentions. Your words are hollow and your sorry carries no weight. You cannot hurt someone and then claim to be sorry. You do not have the moral ground to demand an apology from anyone on behalf of anyone. Were you a participant at the event? No? Then leave the empathy for the rare situations you do venture out with these "brothers" you so gleefully attack.

If you want to speak for the participants...become a participant first.

Don't stop your tirade though...entertainment is at a premium these days. Keep it going!

[starter]

Dear Friends,
Can we please end this here and move on with the actual intent of this thread?
It is going way off topic here and leaves a very bitter feeling to hear/read things about people who have organized an event for others.
I have not been to this event but have seen how tiring the job of marshals/O Team is.
Lets try to move on with discussing more constructive content related to this thread here, or in the other thread of Arka, please.
Cheers,
Deepak

PS: @O-Team: +1 to Khan. Time to move on. There is always 2013!!

[SirAlec]

This is such a non- issue.

what if there are no one in your area, who has interests in going offroad.

I mean my nearest 4x4 junkies is 325 kms away in rajasthan and 700kms in my home town. it would be crazy and unpractical, if i go or invite them. logistically and financially its not possible. once in a while its fine though.

And i have read here these events turn into TV serials, or MTV roadies kind of bickering events. people who were perfectly all right online together, became insane over trivial issues.

People!! we are bound by automotive interest and technology here. discuss under the hood things fellas. not whose got bigger b***s.

[esteem_lover]

Originally Posted by AVR

> I missed out on a few obstacles and ended up waiting in a long convoy of vehicles but it was fine as I was with many people I have become good friends with over the past few years
> The issue was serious enough for us to be "grounded" at a 4-star hotel. Not so much of a hassle
> The O-team was obviously not aware we'll run into this issue but at the same time was fully involved in solving the mess which they eventually did
> Let's not forget the O-team aren't really full-time event organizers who do offroad events for a living. They are a group of offroaders who happen to be in one of the most beautiful areas of India and are enthusiastic enough to invite the rest of India for a few days of great fun. I'll ignore the monetary part because even if it were for-profit there isn't a fortune to be made!
> I went there to offroad with people who are friends and others who became friends. I wouldn't like to be a hard-bargaining customer where I crib about missing out on a few hours of fun and not getting my money's worth.
> As time went by, tempers did rise and rightly so but never did I see an organizer shirk responsibility. Totally appreciate that O-team Guys!
> The receipt given by the forest officials closes the topic as nobody can be punished twice for the same thing.
> Will I come back next year? Hell yeah! If I were on the O-team, I would surely ensure I don't have to go through the same kind of hassles again and hedge myself against such issues. Am sure they'll take note of the same.

Now an offroader's view:
> Was it avoidable? - Hopefully it's a lesson learnt for everyone here. We don't have to do every mistake ourselves to learn from it. Let's all tread carefully and ensure we don't find ourselves in similar situations again. Anywhere.
> How does it impact others? - With the media blowing up the issue with all the masala already, Jeepers are bound to be in the eye of the law for sometime. All the more reason to tread carefully. Apologies if any of you get hauled up because of the heat.
> Where does the offroading community stand? - Divided. Adi

Adi, you came up with a terrific post here. I have been to a few off road events and the first time for me was the first time for samurai and quite a few T-BHPians way back in 2006. (We were forced to sit and drive Arka's MM540).

Since then, the offroad community here has invited me for every OTR and not just that, strangers have given me their TLC prepared vehicles and I have enjoyed every OTR I have been in.

Please read your highlighted posts once again. This was the first thing I noticed when I joined this community. This is very bad for any sport/community. When we have similar interests/lifestyles etc, why are we ganging up against each other.

Coming to the point here, organising an event with 50 jeeps and a 100+ crowd is no joke. No O-Team can feel fully and directly responsible for the 100+ crowd there. We are so different even when there is a group of 10. In spite of these differences in specific tastes and cultures, we bond for this one passion we have. Everyone including the organisers/participants/commentators are human and prone to make errors (not that something HUGE has happened here, except for some local tabloid printing "Breaking News"). If I read this paper, firstly my heart will go out for the participants and the organisers of the event and will call them up to find out if they are OK. They are part of our community and any problems/hassles they faced having their wives and kids around should strike a chord immediately even in the most hardened hearts. It is sad that only finger pointing and "I am more righteous than thou" has come out in the form of knowing 'the truth'.

I too was shocked when Arka and Major Roy and their organising of TPC 2010 was most highly ridiculed for their scoring system and organising and made as a joke by some of the most eminent members in this forum for whatever reason I do not know. In the previous years' event also, I saw some participants being very aggressive that food was not served to them at 7.30pm (during the presentation event). Doesn't this all boil down to egos ? In the context of this mishap, the kind of military discipline that Arka and Maj. Roy bring to the OTR is very very important and necessary to avoid these kind of problems, IMHO.

P.S. Hope this fantastic community grows and grows together with every mishap that it faces.