[Blue Thunder]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

...Starting first has its plus and minus if you ask me, depending on the terrain...

Some observations based on the types of terrain in the Palar riverbed :

• Soft sand mounds : difficult for first vehicle, progressively easier for later vehicles (may end up becoming a 'highway', if sufficient vehicles go over it !!!). This does make the job of the marshal difficult : we need to select such obstacles, that the terrain does not change much from the first to the last vehicle.

• Top-layer clayey-slush : difficult for first vehicle, easier for later vehicles, since hard ground would have been touched by the time later vehicles pass through.

• Deep slush : (relatively) easier for the first vehicle, will become tougher for the later vehicles. And if it is clayey, diff-lover for sure.

• Rocky terrain : same level of difficulty for all vehicles

Originally Posted by Jaggu

....second day headers SS that rock climb became close to impossible for the stock gypsies after few teams attempted it right in front of us...

The obstacle # 2 at SS3 on D2 presented an interesting combination of rock and sand.

I had tried this in my Gypsy during one of the recces, and I remembered it as a tough rocky-cum-sandy climb, and a turn immediately to the left, and then descent. I was shocked when I saw it on D2 of the actual competition, all the sand had been 'excavated' by the 4X4s and the rocky boulders were exposed, making the obstacle all the more difficult. This clearly would be tough for stock vehicles....almost impossible, without getting body/underparts seriously damaged.

But lockers (for added traction on those boulders) / SPOA (for additional GC to clear the boulders from hitting the chassis/body) clearly would make a difference.

I was at SS3/D2 towards the fag-end of the day, and had the opportunity to watch team 1-1 clear SS3. It was a pleasure watching Shah Nawaz (khan_sultan) driving his Spidey through obstacle#2 : it seemed to glide through without much ado...probably due to the optimum usage of the lockers/crawlers and the power was being used only as minimally required (no unnecessary gunning) .

[neoranjit]

Originally Posted by fiery enzyme

Btw, you did some fantastic driving. To watch you clear climb 2 on SS-3 on day 2 was pure delight.

Agree. Watching him and Viji complete climb 2 in SS3 was indeed delight. IIRC, only 4 vehicles could manage to complete this climb. The other two being Vijay Anand and Shah Nawaz . Vijay Anand had a great spotter to help him through while it was a walk in the park for Shah Nawaz.

[headers]

@Robi - Will aim at bettering the starting order - The guy who starts first has the advantage of a virgin terrain in certain sections and the opposite in some. Thats the way TPC is, irrespective whether we do toss a coin or call a name to start first!

Imagine - If I were to start first and do a transport leg - I can CHOOSE the route i want and have a blast across.

Imagine - If there was a climb that was to be done square - a heavy weight vehicle [read solid axle coil, engine 4.2 NA, 2.5 tons] does it diagonally and crosses it diagonally, then all the other vehicles dont have much choice but to do it diagonal at the cost of safety. Here opening first has the advantage.

I [my team] have opened Palar in 2009 for all the SS, only to be followed by my friends and take the cup.


End of the day - Its about how the driver manages to preserve the vehicle, understand its limitations and push it within to take the honours

Originally Posted by gsferrari

Either they skipped certain obstacles (SS3 Day-2 for example ) or they had the fortune of arriving at the "faadu" SS's after a few teams had already passed through.

Not really - They have not skipped a single SS

Originally Posted by gsferrari

but perhaps next year we will use the random system of picking your starting slot out of a bucket with chits with team numbers written on it.

This has been done before!!

Note from the Team-BHP Support Team: Please use the "edit" button if posting within 30 minutes of the first post, instead of creating another back-to-back post.

[gsferrari]

Whatever...the Jeep's were more dependable in terms of mechanical strength. Engine reliability is another story. I was having a discussion with Khan about which vehicle we would prefer if we had to traverse the Palar river bed from end-to-end on a daily basis...we both picked the Gypsy because in a non-competitive situation there wouldn't be any rush and every obstacle can be tackled as slow as possible and as fast as necessary.

But having sat in Arka's jeep and watched Javeen, Mansoor, Robi, Ali etc. in action...I am convinced that a Jeep is the way to go if you are forced to take a beating and still keep rolling at the end.

Drove my old CJ3B with near bald HT tires on the soft beach sands yesterday and she FLEW across the sand (I even managed to get into 5th gear in 4W-High!!!). I will spend more time with her and prepare her for the next edition of TPC.

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by gsferrari

Drove my old CJ3B with near bald HT tires on the soft beach sands yesterday and she FLEW across the sand (I even managed to get into 5th gear in 4W-High!!!). I will spend more time with her and prepare her for the next edition of TPC.

What GB/Engine are you running. Asking since you mentioned 5 speed.

EDIT adding video from the other thread since its closed.

The Palar Challenge 2011, Khan Sultan on Spidey - YouTube

The Palar Challenge 2011 - Khan Sultan, Spidey 2 - YouTube

[ex670c]

Originally Posted by robinson.s

Few observations and suggestions

1. The high light of TPC is the two days of drive, completing 12 special stages and 2 technical SS. Hence all the first three best team should have been recognized and called on to the stage for the prize. Not getting sponsors for 2nd and 3rd runner up's was silly excuse.

2. Bonus points: This was one gray area, which I think none of us had any clue how it was getting calculated. We were zapped, when the 2nd day bonus point was only 40, and that was day, we were before time and the one to complete all the SS before many teams.
Suggestion: Transport section points shouldnt have been calculated for the final tally as it’s the drive on the Special Stage which was important, it would have been better, if the bonus points or negative points were calculated, based on the time taken to complete the SS and number of time the vehicle getting winched out by the team.

3. The trail had advantage on Gypsy over Jeeps; hence it would have been better to incorporate few more jeep obstacles to even out the competition for all kinds of vehicles.

4. Scrutiny of the vehicles should have been mandatory, and marshals should check if the seat beats were on before the start of the SS. As one major incident could pour water on all the efforts what you guys have been doing for the last few years. And above all that, people safety is the most important factor no matter what.

5. The Special Stage alotment to the team should have been through lots, as we experienced, people who opened the Special Stage like day 1 SS-5 and day two SS-2 had major disadvantage, as they were next to impossible SS for first few teams, and later the obstacles were at least doable.
Really should thank Kurien (Kottayam Jeeper) in his land cruiser, which made the tail easier for many of us.

Hi Robinson,

Thank you for your kind words. We look forward to hosting you again next year.

I will answer in points.
1) We gave away 21 Prizes to the Competitors and 3 to the Organizers.
If we are to give Runners-Up and 2nd Runners-Up then the same has to be incorporated for First Amongst the First Timers, and Technical Events, the total no. of trophies would jump to 6X6 = another 36 Trophies @ Rs500= 18K.

2) The Time Bonus was Total Run Time (Start to Finish) - Total Holding Time at each SS.
This was calculated for each team.

Then they were ranked 1-10 For Day#1 & 1-10 for Day#2. (3 Teams Didn't finish the Days Run on both Days so 10 Teams)

then applying (N-n)X10 = First Ranked Team (Least Actual Run time) get 100pts ans so on.

3) Each vehicle has advantages and disadvantages, its all up to the Driver.

4) I ABSOLUTELY AGREE, I had to because I didn't want to send some one back, but the person was warned and exercised caution. SCRUTINY will be enforced in TPC2012

5) The allotment of Starting/Finishing SS by lots is what we will do in TPC2012 to let chance play a bigger role, and remove any ambiguity.

Regards,

Arka

Please Check the attachment of the Time Calculations.

[Jaggu]

This time bonus thing was confusing for marshals also i guess. I remember someone asking the question at team briefing and Major Roy explaining that only first vehicle time reporting will be taken (after some up and down). But the the reality was total confusion, some marshals look at first vehicle reporting, then some insisted that all have to report.

After few such confusions at SS we decided to stop this rush to report like others, just drive araam se to preserve the vehicle and report as and when. I was even taking stop watch reading on my own on first 2 ss, then just stopped doing it EDIT: Oh and one more thing, time bonus helps if all the teams are forced to do all obstacles or try to max possible time. Imagine we skipping one two obstacles by just attempting and not completing it and then rushing to other ss, getting the advantage of time bonus also. Actually coming to think of it, that was a better plan he he

Similarly some confusions with the obstacle approach also, some allowed teams to decide on their own line, some insisted that teams had to follow the prescribed approach. To be honest i was slightly pissed off when another team said that marshal at a particular stage allowed some leniency. But i guess we also got some good will from other marshals. So didn't bother to escalate.

The only difference from last year for BODA team 1.1 was to have fun, do best as possible, rest just chuck it, atleast as much as possible. Yeah saying all that since we won, but i know the feelings, when one is on the other side. Hence the request to keep the rules as uniform as possible and not leave it to people to interpret the handbook as they would like to, be it competitors or the marshals.

Honestly after one read from camp to river bed on day 1, i never referred back to rule book, coz i felt it will not help and everything is in the hands of the marshals at the end of the day

Another point (which many or most would not agree), i totally don't agree to vehicle breaker obstacles, especially if the chances of this happening are very high. Competition? i agree! but i dont think its fair to knowingly allow competition to continue when the terrain changes and makes it dangerous or damaging to vehicles. I love them and cant see them being destroyed. No its not easy to just skip it also, when you are "competing". Well that's just me.

[ex670c]

Hi Guys,

Last set from Day#1 SS1.

@ Jaggu,

Performance Anxiety/Stage Fright come into play especially for experienced teams, this is where a cool head and a realistic "goal setting" matters. i.e do as many obstacles as possible, ZERO damage to vehicles, self-discipline (3 attempts and move on)

Regards,

Arka

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by ex670c

@ Jaggu,

Performance Anxiety/Stage Fright come into play especially for experienced teams, this is where a cool head and a realistic "goal setting" matters. i.e do as many obstacles as possible, ZERO damage to vehicles, self-discipline (3 attempts and move on)

Not that Arka, a simple rock can scar the vehicle even if you have excellent discipline and skills. When things are obvious i would definitely like to avoid it, making a competition tough can be done otherwise also. That was my point. Experience people will atleast get this anxiety (and this saved us), imagine a newb, why does he have to endure the pain of learning it the hard way. And in a high adrenalin competition environment who will really listen, even if one were to reason.

I did not see your SS when it was virgin, but when we reached it was very safe for both vehicle and participants. But some of the other SS were not really cake walk once few vehicles butchered it.

[Samurai]

Towing using the grills? How did this come about?

[King413]

Originally Posted by ex670c

TPC2011 – Event Report.

Hi Arka,

I would really appreciate if you do mention the names of all the winners rather than just the drivers.(our co-drivers deserve as much recognition in the winners table as much as the drivers)








More than what machine Jeep/Gypsy, it is a combination of things and mostly a Team game, i would say. At every stage we as drivers, asked our spotters to be ready in areas where we needed help, planned the team order, quick recovery etc. We had a good team, though many saw us arguing all the time, it was that understanding we had among each other, that coordination between driver-driver and driver-co-drivers that worked for us. Saving vehicle, pushing it to its limit but not breaking it is a tough line to mark and this is where the driver and his understanding of his vehicle comes in play. On the whole I loved the event and thank the organizers again for TPC2011.

Prithvi

[khan_sultan]

Originally Posted by King413

....I would really appreciate if you do mention the names of all the winners rather than just the drivers.(our co-drivers deserve as much recognition in the winners table as much as the drivers) ....

Agree & have edited the first post and added the co-driver/navigator names to the winning team list.

Just for the record, these are the excellent co-drivers & navigators that the winning teams had. Without these wonderful co-drivers/navigators/spotters, TPC would become twice as tough for all of us -- especially Bangalore folks

Team 1.1 - Jaggu, Chetan & Nitin
Team 1.2 - Siva & Fazul
Team 1.3 - Nikhil, Andrew & Jilu
Team 2.1 - Manu & Sujith

[Jaggu]

Ok enough of this and that, some iPhone pics from my side. This is all i have since i was part of a competing team

[Jaggu]

Ok since a post has a max limit of 30 pics, creating one more

[robinson.s]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Its not just black and white.

We had heard that Arka's second day SS was a hell for opening. On reaching there i understood from the marshals that the trick was not rip through the water, which will get you stuck. Crawling worked well for all of us if you ask me, oh and the last climb was totally messed up and at an angle with a nice boulder in between. It was sheer luck that it got dislodged by spidey's tyres that the stock gypsies could climb without hurting itself.

In short there is no absolute answer if its advantageous or not. Just my observations.

Jaggu beg to differ little form what you saying.

Arka's SS on Day 2 was completely different when it got opened. ,We saw Ali and his team crawling through the water and getting stuck royally, followed by his recovery mate and then time out. He being expert driver and well versed with the palar terrain couldn't complete as it wasn't possible.
After the LC and Mansoor's vehicle attempted the trail, cleared off most of the boulders and leveled the rut, it sort off had become a highway. Therefore, it becomes lot more challenging if you start first.

Guess its the reverse principle for mud. If you are the last lot, you will be done.

Regards

Originally Posted by ex670c

Hi Robinson,

Thank you for your kind words. We look forward to hosting you again next year.

I will answer in points.
1) We gave away 21 Prizes to the Competitors and 3 to the Organizers.
If we are to give Runners-Up and 2nd Runners-Up then the same has to be incorporated for First Amongst the First Timers, and Technical Events, the total no. of trophies would jump to 6X6 = another 36 Trophies @ Rs500= 18K.

2) The Time Bonus was Total Run Time (Start to Finish) - Total Holding Time at each SS.
This was calculated for each team.

Then they were ranked 1-10 For Day#1 & 1-10 for Day#2. (3 Teams Didn't finish the Days Run on both Days so 10 Teams)

then applying (N-n)X10 = First Ranked Team (Least Actual Run time) get 100pts ans so on.

3) Each vehicle has advantages and disadvantages, its all up to the Driver.

4) I ABSOLUTELY AGREE, I had to because I didn't want to send some one back, but the person was warned and exercised caution. SCRUTINY will be enforced in TPC2012

5) The allotment of Starting/Finishing SS by lots is what we will do in TPC2012 to let chance play a bigger role, and remove any ambiguity.

Regards,

Arka

Please Check the attachment of the Time Calculations.

Arka,
Appreciate for considering these points and looking forward to see it happen next year.

Coming back to point no: one. TPC being one of the biggest national and only competitive event, at least recognizing the runners up's would be appropriate.

Thanks for flashing the points calculation sheet.

Regards