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-   -   Recovery and Salvage techniques.. Post Here (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-excursions/44485-recovery-salvage-techniques-post-here-5.html)

Alfa_Kilo 23rd August 2008 00:51

Does anyone use a turfer to recover vehicles over here. My vehicle was stuck at Rajmachi, and we had to use a turfer to recover it. Here are the videos.

YouTube - AlfaNovember94's Playlists

On different occasions, my vehicle was pulled out by nylon straps. Restraint must be excercised when using the snatch technique. Please dont let any 'spectators' stand on either side of a rope/cable unde tension.

YouTube - trying to recover a jeep

DirtyDan 23rd August 2008 03:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by susan3004 (Post 949558)
Now, when the vehicle attemps a recovery, the force which is applied on the stuck vehicle doubles up and even loaded vehicles stuck are pulled out.(Don't ask me to explain the law of physics please, but this happens)

Yeah, I know what you mean. It has to be something similar (not identical) to gears and fulcrums to get the added power. I think Arka will have more to say on this shortly.

ex670c 23rd August 2008 13:43

Stand-Off Recovery - Winching
 
1) Calculate the Resistance. (for a MM540XD Stuck in Chassis deep mud) 3500lbs X3 =10500lbs pull

2) Calculate Winch Pull - i.e 9000lbs Winch then use a pulley/snatch block to double the effort.

3) Rigging-
i) Position the Winch JEEP in a straight line with the Stuck JEEP (as straight as the ground permits)

ii) Check the ground i.e make sure the stuck vehicle has enough space to be pulled out

iii) Clear out the wheels of the stuck vehicle
a) Sand - Put packing under each wheel if possible
b) Mud - put leaves branches or a vehicle mat
c) Rock/Hard ground - Put rocks under the wheel

iv) Attach a polyprop Rope Slings on the front/Rear to attach Winch Cable or Snatch Block/pulley.

v) if using a snatch block/pulley put the winch cable through the snatch block and attach it to a polyprop Rope Slings on the Winch JEEP.

vi) If using the only the winch then attach the winch cable to the polyprop Rope Sling.

vii) If using multiple Winches attach each winch cable to a separate polyprop Rope Sling.

viii) If using multiple Winches attach each winch cable to a separate polyprop Rope Sling; and attach each sling to the same side of the vehicle.
i.e All Winch Cables pull at one end, to prevent the Chassis from getting bent/crushed/stretched.

viii) After the winch cables are attached to the recovered JEEP - They Are LIVE. Do not walk/skip or jump over these cables

ix) Check that polyprop Rope Slings or Winch Cables do not cross each other.

x) Place a cable damper over each winch cable.

xi) clear all persons to twice the radius of the tow cable and far in front of the recovery JEEPs or Far behind the Recovered JEEP.

xii) Recovery In-Charge briefs all the drivers about the procedure.

xiii) Recovery In-Charge re-checks all rigging/lashing.

xiv) Checks all person are clear.

xv) Recovery In-Charge positions himself safely and Signals drivers to take in the slack and then gradually winch out the vehicle.

CAUTIONS
1) Check the Equipment
2) Always Use gloves to handle ISW Ropes
3) Check the lashings
4) Clear all persons
5) Brief the drivers
6) Check Cable Dampers
7) NEVER ATTACH A WINCH CABLE BACK ON ITSELF (Looped)
8) Start your engines are keep them revved to 1500-2000rpm (to Charge the Battery)
9) Apply Brakes Foot & Hand to prevent the Winch JEEPs from moving.
10) While using Electric Winches 1:9 (use:rest)
11) Winch in Short Runs (15secs-60secs)

PS - Will be posting a few recovery pics after the basic techniques are discussed.

DirtyDan 23rd August 2008 14:14

I think I am going to have to see some pictures so I know what is what. For example, what is a polyprop Rope Sling?

The pulley/snatch block that doubles the power also makes a 5000lbs-6000lbs winch more viable if you know how to use it, 'ay? And more affordable than the big ones.

ex670c 23rd August 2008 14:19

Snatch Blocks/ Pulley Blocks
 
4 Attachment(s)
Snatch Blocks are used to
i) Change the direction of pull
ii) Increase the pull.

1) Snatch Block Rigging Calculator

2) Winching Basics - 4 Wheel Drive & Sport Utility Magazine

3) Technical Winch information on winching theory

Using the Snatch Block to change direction of pull, due to inadequate space.

Cable Dampers HAVE NOT been used.

DirtyDan 23rd August 2008 16:57

The white strap around the rock is the polyprop rope sling? What is the capacity of that winch, Arka?

RedMM340 23rd August 2008 17:26

Pic #2 is a good illustration of where people should not be standing during a pull. Especially the guy with the blue shirt/tan pants in the center. At least the guy on the right side looks like he is running for cover.

Regarding the use of a snatch block, I would also add that this cuts the line speed in half, so only use it if absolutely needed and you cannot perform the extraction with a direct pull.

Half line speed is an issue for your charging system. Dual batteries and a 100 amp(or more) alternator are very desirable.

The safest pull is just a direct pull.

DirtyDan 23rd August 2008 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedMM340 (Post 950099)
Pic #2 is a good illustration of where people should not be standing during a pull. Especially the guy with the blue shirt/tan pants in the center.

Yeah, I noticed that. Let's hope they are just beginning to take up the slack and that he is getting out of the way, late though he may be. I also have seen pics of recovery vehicles that open their bonnets to have them serve as a sheild in case the cable snaps back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedMM340 (Post 950099)
Half line speed is an issue for your charging system. Dual batteries and a 100 amp(or more) alternator are very desirable.

Good idea. You can use the extra juice for extra lights, too, when you are not using the winch. Can you get big alternators in India?

RedMM340 23rd August 2008 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyDan (Post 950171)
Yeah, I noticed that. Let's hope they are just beginning to take up the slack and that he is getting out of the way, late though he may be. I also have seen pics of recovery vehicles that open their bonnets to have them serve as a sheild in case the cable snaps back.



Good idea. You can use the extra juice for extra lights, too, when you are not using the winch. Can you get big alternators in India?

Having shattered a windshield of a jeep that I was trying to extract, I would say that opening the bonnet is a very good idea.

My alternator for the 340 is a 90 amp unit with vacuum pump. I believe that there are larger alternators, but these may not have a vacuum pump required for power brakes.

I have a 160 amp unit that I bought in the U.S. from Premier Power Welder, but never got around to installing it.

DKG 23rd August 2008 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedMM340 (Post 950099)
Pic #2 is a good illustration of where people should not be standing during a pull. Especially the guy with the blue shirt/tan pants in the center. At least the guy on the right side looks like he is running for cover.

True that's almost like a sling shot hit if the belt slips. Arka were you there when this winching took place?

Thanks Arka for a most comprehensive post on recovery. Do please cover any additional aids one may use to aid in traction like grip ladders or the like. A little more on driving technique as you get bogged down. Often good driving gets you out of seemingly stuck situations. Some tips on that would help.

jyobeb 23rd August 2008 19:52

The guy in the blue shirt is Arka and he is the one setting up things. As you can see he is the one operating the winch after everyone gets clear.

motocamp 23rd August 2008 19:54

i think one point we overlooked,is the fact that any wire rope,chain,or strop is only as strong as it's weakest link.

I think in many cases this might actually be the hooks and mounting points available on our vehicles.

unless your hooks and fixing points are above SWL and our tightened down with grade 8 bolts, you might be courting disaster.

DirtyDan 23rd August 2008 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by DKG (Post 950215)
True that's almost like a sling shot hit if the belt slips. Arka were you there when this winching took place?

I think they have just taken up most of the slack and are not really winching full out at this point. Arka, this is great info. Makes me wanta go out there and get stuck!

DKG 23rd August 2008 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyDan (Post 950235)
If you look closely you will see there is still a lot of slack in the cable. They are not in an unsafe situation as this picture is taken.

Possibly so. In a similar situation it may be advisable to stand on the right side of the winching Jeep clear of the V, you know just in case.

RedMM340 23rd August 2008 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by ex670c (Post 949930)
Snatch Blocks are used to
i) Change the direction of pull
ii) Increase the pull.

1) Snatch Block Rigging Calculator

2) Winching Basics - 4 Wheel Drive & Sport Utility Magazine

3) Technical Winch information on winching theory

Using the Snatch Block to change direction of pull, due to inadequate space.

Cable Dampers HAVE NOT been used.

I almost did not recognize Arka with his very cool sunglasses!

After looking at the pictures some more, I just realized that the Toyota is being extracted, and the rock is an anchor point. In this case, the line speed is not halved. You get full line speed, but a change in direction.

Since I was not present at the time and all I have are the pictures, I would say that it appears that there is enough space to do a direct pull in front of the Toyota.

My personal preference would be a direct pull without the snatch block & nylon strap. The less components for a pull, the less the chances for a failure. Problem is that even if one component such as the snatch block, cable, or nylon strap break, the failure can be catastrophic.

Not trying to criticize, just trying to point out how possibly to do a safer extraction.


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