Taprobana 4x4 Challenge 2009

dwaraka · 9th November 2009, 13:16

that was one great offroading you had.

Spitfire · 9th November 2009, 13:21

I got goose bumps just by viewing the pics. Congrats. Nice to see the tricolour too.

petrol_head · 9th November 2009, 14:31

Great to see Jeep Thrills and Ignite stickers beyond our shores.. Way to go guys.. you made us proud.

ex670c · 9th November 2009, 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by flanker.r

We also realized that our MM 540, CJ3B and gypsy were excellent vehicles after all. Maybe we will do the Taprobana challenge next year in a MM550 on which I am working in my workshop right now. Again nothing fancy, just blue print the engine, maybe turbo-charge it and we’ll see how it fares. People who are learning off roading on Mahindras and Gypsys- this is the way to go. These are very capable machines and it was only because we had ground our axe on these machines that we were appreciated on numerous occasions about our skills. As our dear ‘Old fox’ said, ‘Technology has replaced skills in our drivers and it is so refreshing to see you guys show our top drivers what skill is all about’. Dare I say that I was even telling Sanjay that obstacles that Land cruisers and Land Rovers were struggling I thought my petrol 3B could clear and he nodded in agreement.

Hi Raghav,

Nice write-up and good to have experienced off-roaders amongst us.

Since you have seen both Indian and Foreign 4WDs and worked on quite a few of them.

Could you please elaborate on what makes the M&M series and MG410 series, excellent off-roaders, do our vehicles have any advantage if any, other than serving as good training platforms.

Regards,

Arka

PS - I would like Sean Hameed to also add his valuable comments.

LKCRUISERS · 10th November 2009, 08:54

Great Report, I did not know that you guys had such a good time. Thank you for proving my theory right.

The Key fetures of a Gypsey & MM540 is that they are light, and have rigid axles. The MM540 final drive I heard was 5.29, and the Gypsey is about 950 Kg.

My competion cruiser has about 190 horses, but most of it is wasted to carry the 1900kg of the vehicle. Power to weight is the bottomline.

The Unimog has a 1.7 litre diesel doing all the hard work, does not rev past 3000, so end of the day how you put the torque down to the ground.

When a vehicle is light a normal warn 8274 can pull through with ease, where we are heavy, and the guys are spoilt with twin motor giglepin conversion to pull the weight.

A modification must be carried out when the vehicle limits the driver's ability, and the modification must be concentrated on enhancing that particular limitation, then the man an machine is in syc.

Most guys build their off road machines looking at others or in 4x4 magazines. Everytime they perform less than par they blame the machine, and change the specs or further upgrade. Always a hardware upgrade and never think it is a software problem.

So the MM540 and the Gypsey is a good base vehicle to modify, The MM540 I would like to play around with the diesel pump a bit, run a bit advance and turbo charge it for more response. Gypsey, I would like to see whether we can get the swift EFI engine in, responds better and can seal better for water crossings. Both I would take the leaf spring suspension out and convert to coil. If the articulation is good you will not need a diff lock. A 8274 Warn in the front, these machines will be in Par with the So called monsters that you see here competing.

The basics of off roading, If you can't walk it you can't drive it, all the rest of the modifications are mostly for intimidation of fellow competitors.

Cheers

10th November 2009, 16:12

It's a mantra. Chant it.

IF YOU CAN'T WALK IN IT, YOU CAN"T DRIVE IN IT. IF YOU CAN'T WALK IN IT, YOU CAN"T DRIVE IN IT. IF YOU CAN'T WALK IN IT, YOU CAN"T DRIVE IN IT. IF YOU CAN'T WALK IN IT, YOU CAN"T DRIVE IN IT. IF YOU CAN'T WALK IN IT, YOU CAN"T DRIVE IN IT.

Ym-enjn · 10th November 2009, 22:36

GOSHhh!! Is that a Gypsy inside this deadly offroader??

Took this pic from the main event site 4x4.lk

Taprobana 4x4 Challenge 2009-20090922day4005.jpg

flanker.r · 11th November 2009, 14:01

The MM and gypsy are excellent platforms for even international events. Their off road credentials, chassis design and specifications, standardization as per accepted international design practices, affordable parts and adherence to metric system makes them ideal. Also, the simplicity of design and non-conformance to pretentious add ons like power windows, unnecessary electronics makes them inherently more reliable than other international vehicles that people think have superior off road ability.

Easy availability of spares, engine, transmission and drive-train design that has withstood the test of time and serviceability on the field add on to its virtues of giving the bigger boys a run for both money and performance

It is a common misconception that these vehicles are unreliable. They seem to have earned this name only because of the unknown history of the maintenance carried out on these machines and too much ‘band-aid’ solutions that have gone into them by previous owners and mechanics. A proper blue printed machine would definitely not have the unreliability factor plaguing it. I have seen Landcruisers and Patrols with M-seal at various points, wrongly timed FIPs, relays bypassed, fuses made direct, wire harnesses cut, taped, cut again and taped and these exhibit the same level of unreliability as the MMs and gypsy’s we tend to call as unreliable. Also in India, jeeps are quite often worked by the same people who work on LCV and low tech garages with crude equipment. This adds on to the bad image they seem to have earned. I strongly feel it is a scenario where ‘Cause’ and ‘Effect’ have been reversed.

MM AND THE GYPSY ARE NOT UNREALIABLE AS PEOPLE THINK THEY ARE (notice the absence of ‘as’ in the sentence)

As Sean has already mentioned and I strongly agree, power to weight is the key and the MM and Gypsys excel in these. With a good winch like a Warn 8275 these can clear obstacles much faster while also extending the life of the winches themselves and making them work a lot faster compared to the competition shaving vital minutes in SSs. Turbocharging the MM and coils for the Gypsy would be a great idea. Sean I am with you in this and work in already in progress with regard to exploring retrofitting parts which are readily available in the international market off the shelf for these vehicles.

Regards
Raghav

headers · 11th November 2009, 22:28

I tend to agree that our vehicles excel by their simplicity in design.

I've seen examples of excellent as well as roughed up MMs and Gypsies and more often it has to do with the bad lineage of the vehicle than the vehicle itself..

ex670c · 13th November 2009, 17:19

Hi Guys,

Sanjay David & Raghav in today's Economic Times Chennai edition.

Regards,

Arka

khan_sultan · 13th November 2009, 17:56

what is a 180 degree slope as mentioned in the opening line? Am i missing something here or is it Friday evening syndrome for me.!!

headers · 14th November 2009, 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by khan_sultan

what is a 180 degree slope as mentioned in the opening line? Am i missing something here or is it Friday evening syndrome for me.!!

You got to meet they guys KS. It was a wonderful experience i believe!!

Samurai · 14th November 2009, 18:29

The opening line of the article asks us to imagine a 180 degree slope. I can't imagine it either, what does that mean?

headers · 14th November 2009, 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samurai

The opening line of the article asks us to imagine a 180 degree slope. I can't imagine it either, what does that mean?

A 180 degree slope is a straight line!!

Guys: Ignore the opening press lines and look at the content of the event. And what is amazing is that our boys did the event with the minimal of fantasy equipment!

HappyWheels · 14th November 2009, 22:34

ROFL! So the question of 180 was asked!

Lets go with Headers suggestion - Please blank out the first sentence in the report, people. Mark it under reporters-blunder!

9th November 2009, 13:16	#31
dwaraka Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,240 Thanked: 229 Times	that was one great offroading you had.
	() Thanks

9th November 2009, 13:21	#32
Spitfire BANNED Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Panaji - Goa/Bangalore - Karnataka Posts: 3,312 Thanked: 774 Times	I got goose bumps just by viewing the pics. Congrats. Nice to see the tricolour too.
	() Thanks

9th November 2009, 14:31	#33
petrol_head BHPian Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Madras Posts: 234 Thanked: 60 Times	Great to see Jeep Thrills and Ignite stickers beyond our shores.. Way to go guys.. you made us proud.
	() Thanks

10th November 2009, 08:54	#35
LKCRUISERS BHPian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Colombo Posts: 71 Thanked: 45 Times	Great Report, I did not know that you guys had such a good time. Thank you for proving my theory right. The Key fetures of a Gypsey & MM540 is that they are light, and have rigid axles. The MM540 final drive I heard was 5.29, and the Gypsey is about 950 Kg. My competion cruiser has about 190 horses, but most of it is wasted to carry the 1900kg of the vehicle. Power to weight is the bottomline. The Unimog has a 1.7 litre diesel doing all the hard work, does not rev past 3000, so end of the day how you put the torque down to the ground. When a vehicle is light a normal warn 8274 can pull through with ease, where we are heavy, and the guys are spoilt with twin motor giglepin conversion to pull the weight. A modification must be carried out when the vehicle limits the driver's ability, and the modification must be concentrated on enhancing that particular limitation, then the man an machine is in syc. Most guys build their off road machines looking at others or in 4x4 magazines. Everytime they perform less than par they blame the machine, and change the specs or further upgrade. Always a hardware upgrade and never think it is a software problem. So the MM540 and the Gypsey is a good base vehicle to modify, The MM540 I would like to play around with the diesel pump a bit, run a bit advance and turbo charge it for more response. Gypsey, I would like to see whether we can get the swift EFI engine in, responds better and can seal better for water crossings. Both I would take the leaf spring suspension out and convert to coil. If the articulation is good you will not need a diff lock. A 8274 Warn in the front, these machines will be in Par with the So called monsters that you see here competing. The basics of off roading, If you can't walk it you can't drive it, all the rest of the modifications are mostly for intimidation of fellow competitors. Cheers
	() Thanks

10th November 2009, 16:12	#36
octaneoverdose Posts: n/a	It's a mantra. Chant it. IF YOU CAN'T WALK IN IT, YOU CAN"T DRIVE IN IT. IF YOU CAN'T WALK IN IT, YOU CAN"T DRIVE IN IT. IF YOU CAN'T WALK IN IT, YOU CAN"T DRIVE IN IT. IF YOU CAN'T WALK IN IT, YOU CAN"T DRIVE IN IT. IF YOU CAN'T WALK IN IT, YOU CAN"T DRIVE IN IT.
	() Thanks

10th November 2009, 22:36	#37
Ym-enjn Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Jaipur Posts: 1,039 Thanked: 59 Times	GOSHhh!! Is that a Gypsy inside this deadly offroader?? Took this pic from the main event site 4x4.lk
	() Thanks

11th November 2009, 14:01	#38
flanker.r Newbie Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Chennai Posts: 6 Thanked: 0 Times	The MM and gypsy are excellent platforms for even international events. Their off road credentials, chassis design and specifications, standardization as per accepted international design practices, affordable parts and adherence to metric system makes them ideal. Also, the simplicity of design and non-conformance to pretentious add ons like power windows, unnecessary electronics makes them inherently more reliable than other international vehicles that people think have superior off road ability. Easy availability of spares, engine, transmission and drive-train design that has withstood the test of time and serviceability on the field add on to its virtues of giving the bigger boys a run for both money and performance It is a common misconception that these vehicles are unreliable. They seem to have earned this name only because of the unknown history of the maintenance carried out on these machines and too much ‘band-aid’ solutions that have gone into them by previous owners and mechanics. A proper blue printed machine would definitely not have the unreliability factor plaguing it. I have seen Landcruisers and Patrols with M-seal at various points, wrongly timed FIPs, relays bypassed, fuses made direct, wire harnesses cut, taped, cut again and taped and these exhibit the same level of unreliability as the MMs and gypsy’s we tend to call as unreliable. Also in India, jeeps are quite often worked by the same people who work on LCV and low tech garages with crude equipment. This adds on to the bad image they seem to have earned. I strongly feel it is a scenario where ‘Cause’ and ‘Effect’ have been reversed. MM AND THE GYPSY ARE NOT UNREALIABLE AS PEOPLE THINK THEY ARE (notice the absence of ‘as’ in the sentence) As Sean has already mentioned and I strongly agree, power to weight is the key and the MM and Gypsys excel in these. With a good winch like a Warn 8275 these can clear obstacles much faster while also extending the life of the winches themselves and making them work a lot faster compared to the competition shaving vital minutes in SSs. Turbocharging the MM and coils for the Gypsy would be a great idea. Sean I am with you in this and work in already in progress with regard to exploring retrofitting parts which are readily available in the international market off the shelf for these vehicles. Regards Raghav Last edited by flanker.r : 11th November 2009 at 14:15. Reason: formatting
	() Thanks

11th November 2009, 22:28	#39
headers Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Greater Chennai Posts: 4,667 Thanked: 559 Times	I tend to agree that our vehicles excel by their simplicity in design. I've seen examples of excellent as well as roughed up MMs and Gypsies and more often it has to do with the bad lineage of the vehicle than the vehicle itself.. Last edited by headers : 11th November 2009 at 22:36.
	() Thanks

13th November 2009, 17:19	#40
ex670c Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Chennai Posts: 2,470 Thanked: 1,937 Times View My Garage	Adventures Across the Borders ET 13/11/2009 Hi Guys, Sanjay David & Raghav in today's Economic Times Chennai edition. Regards, Arka Attached Thumbnails
	() Thanks

13th November 2009, 17:56	#41
khan_sultan Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Noida/Bangalore Posts: 4,925 Thanked: 5,853 Times View My Garage	what is a 180 degree slope as mentioned in the opening line? Am i missing something here or is it Friday evening syndrome for me.!!
	() Thanks

14th November 2009, 18:29	#43
Samurai Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bangalore/Udupi Posts: 25,813 Thanked: 45,447 Times View My Garage	The opening line of the article asks us to imagine a 180 degree slope. I can't imagine it either, what does that mean?
	() Thanks

14th November 2009, 22:34	#45
HappyWheels Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 4,106 Thanked: 537 Times	ROFL! So the question of 180 was asked! Lets go with Headers suggestion - Please blank out the first sentence in the report, people. Mark it under reporters-blunder!
	() Thanks