[star_aqua]

Originally Posted by King413

Aqua
Since nobody completed that stage you don't get any points for attempting it.

which stage are you talking about?? check out the score sheet others have scored 40 out of 40 for the same stage which has 4 obstacles and 33 for few.

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by ex670c

Some teams managed to preserve the vehicles for one full day, only to get back the next day.

And we like fools, inspite of failing vehicles went ahead even on the last SS, for participation sake lol

Originally Posted by khan_sultan

WIt will really help us if we know what these winners exhibited towards the above mentioned criteria.

Yes please atleast for participants for next year, you should publish the point scoring system and criteria's in details and well ahead. This should be shared with all the marshalls so that they all are on same plain while evaluating. We got contradicting instructions this time from different marshals.

Originally Posted by xtreme power

red 2 and red 4 had their share of problems as a result of which they landed late for those stages, that is their loss buddy not mine

===========

if my vehicle was damaged on the last ss of day 1, then what ya

your talking totally against what roy spoke about during our briefing on 12th, since the last group finished the last ss on day 1 , all the ss's should be considered
and if u did not finish them, then ur loss

^^^ Agree, we broke one vehicle at SS3 day 1, and if we waited for that vehicle before proceeding to other stages then results would be, well quite different. But our understanding from Major Roy's briefing was same as Allen's, so we thought of continuing instead and catching up.

Originally Posted by ex670c

Allan, I can understand you disappointment with the scores (SS1/2/3) but please accept my apologies for this confusion, we will definitely iron out these issues for the next TPC. Going by you record performance, this year, I am sure you will be in contention for TPC2011.

No need for apologies or prizes, but if this is the way rules are used then i dont think anybody would be excited for next year. Its no fair for us to pay for O team's confusions.

Originally Posted by xtreme power

sorry arka, but it does not really help me,
if red was late it was their fault and they should pay for it

Yup, and were the clocks started as per the order. ie 20 mts after Red 1, clock of Red 2 started on day 1?

Originally Posted by yzfrj

As Allan mentioned if the 2 teams in question were "late" its their fault and let them pay than penalizing the other 9 teams.

If the compensation for the mistake changes the final outcome (for the majority of the participants), you'd be better off NOT adding that to the picture. This is not rocket science just being fair to the majority of the competition.

Have you ever heard of a rally stage getting canceled since 2 cars were not able to "make it". But it does gets canceled if the stage is dangerous. Was it the case here for the SS in question ? If so why did 9 teams complete it ?

Valid points and atleast for the sake of fairness you should incorporate few rules from rally books.

- Timing card will be carried by the participants OR a copy will be given at each stage

- End of the day, standings and points will be published. Its fine even if its at the beginning of second day. Atleast we will know if we need to push or just have fun and get tanned

- All points or evaluation criteria will be published well before and Marshall's thoroughly briefed to follow the same, without any deviations

Meanwhile a new sheet from my side, with what if points.

ps: Click on image for on your face presentation!

[SPIKE ARRESTOR]

Congratulations to all the winners, organizers as well as the participants for making TPC 2010 a successful event, with lots of fun and learning. Special appreciation for the organizing team for churning out such fantastic arrangements. I can now safely presume that TPC brings out the best performances from "Men and their machines".

Arka, it would be nice if you or someone from the O team could post pics of the SS with a short description of the obstacle. Thanks!

Spike

[headers]

Originally Posted by xtreme power

Also since in my fury i forgot,
congrats to vikram, dr. jones and lokesh
awesome win u guys,
need to learn a few more tricks from vikram the next time im around
was a pleasure to finally catch up with u as well

Yup Allan, I wanted to sample the V8 power but just got caught in the drift!! Am sure we get to spend more time next time around! Thanks for coming and making your presence felt!

Originally Posted by swastikviji

Congratulations to all winners of TPC 2010.
.

Thanks Viji, you guys are good company!

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

Congratulations to all the winners, organizers as well as the participants for making TPC 2010 a successful event, with lots of fun and learning. Special appreciation for the organizing team for churning out such fantastic arrangements. I can now safely presume that TPC brings out the best performances from "Men and their machines".

Hey Spikey, We missed you and the THAR. Hope my friend Vinu is taking the necessary actions in your camp

[khan_sultan]

Originally Posted by King413

....You seem to be all for the Indo Srilankan team....I don't know why?

Strange co-incidence but all this is favoring & benefiting the 2 teams which did not complete SS 1/2/3 on day 1

That Indo-Lankan team in team standings and Manzoor (Team Kerala ) in overall individual standings (Most Performing 4WD). IMHO, Sireesh should be the overall 3rd individual Most Performing 4WD winner with 703 points.

Wonder what is going on here..!!!!!

Originally Posted by yzfrj

....If the compensation for the mistake changes the final outcome (for the majority of the participants), you'd be better off NOT adding that to the picture. This is not rocket science just being fair to the majority of the competition. ...

+1. Never heard of this before.!!!! Am beginning to wonder what's going on behind the scenes here..!!!!

Originally Posted by Jaggu

you should publish the point scoring system and criteria's in details and well ahead.

Right now it's kind of a joke for most of the subjective awards. The less said the better. I think even the winners would be feeling sheepish about the awards as their fellow competitors saw them more than any marshall did.

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by khan_sultan

Right now it's kind of a joke for most of the subjective awards.

Well it needn't be, thats my point. I understand that due to lack of time new awards were introduced, still criteria can be written down and then published which can take care of the subjectivity.

A logical example:

Best driver:

- No of SS completed / Points
- Timings
- No of attempts

Yes one would want multiple timer stopwatches at each sections, since 3 drivers are involved.

Oh and since the terrain is known, planning needs to be made to bring down the total time, consciously, esp when team numbers increase. Palar offers obstacle in each and every corner, so one can definitely cut down on long transport sectors.

ps: Just sharing thoughts, so that it helps for the coming years.

EDIT: I think the ex army gypsy (lokesh) from BLR deserved New B driver award. His vehicle started running 2 weeks back and this is his first OTR!! on any terrain for that matter lol!! ok 2nd if you consider a small drive in the backyard of Viji's native. And first 4x4 vehicle iirc.

But yes how will the marshals or O team figure that out???

[drjones]

Thanks a Lot guys for your wishes. Its like a great tonic for us. I would like to thank every one of you for making it to Chennai for the TPC. Looking at each team, this year in TPC I was really flabbergasted at the amount of effort taken by each individual and teams in preparing their vehicles/travel/planning etc etc. Man, you guys are great. If I was in the O team, I would have really considered giving everyone a trophy just for the amount of effort exerted ;-).
I wish I had more time to spend with each and everyone of you. I could have got a lot of tips on driving techniques/vehicle preparation etc. Each one of the competitors were excelling in a lot of ways. The newbees, I really doubt whether the were new, they were soo good. I really wish I had their talent and their age too.
It was a pleasure to meet Big daddy - UBS sir. He said Iam not the same Dr.Jones he saw 3 years back. I think he meant, the fire inside me has reduced. I also feel my driving has softend a lot. Maybe age is creeping in.
I had a blast of time in the TPC. I congratulate the O team for their immense effort in organising the TPC. I was feeling lucky for not being one of them. As a competitor I had the pleasure of driving my vehicle, but these poor souls had to stand 2 whole days in the sun/rain etc and trying to control a wild crowd. Special thanks to Arka and Major for organising everything from planning/executing/recces/stay/food/toilets/support staff/flags/ORSs etc etc. There were soooo many minute things which they had really thought about and executed. Thanks guys.

P.S.-- About the 'Mistake' of the O team, I appreciate Arka for being bold enough to accept his mistake. Personally I can forgive him, but others might feel its because I was in the winning team. As a competitor it would be really tough to digest. I can understand. For all the effort he took in Organising such a great event and giving all of us a chance to compete in an event of international standards, I think he very well deserves to be forgiven. Its a learning process, TPC is evolving, everyone of us should give a helping hand and sacrifice a bit in its growth. It would be beneficial for all of us. So, to start with, instead of just talking, I need a solution and the problem to be stopped. As team BHP is a wonderful and a distinguished forum, I would like to hand over the decision to its members as of who should be the winner/Ist runner/IInd runner etc by calculating the points in such a way that it is fair for each and every competitor. I would be glad to hand over the trophy to a better winning team. I hope Vikram/Lokesh/Rajmohan/Ranjit would agree with me. Whatever the outcome, Iam willing to abide by the decision.
Guys, lets all join and clear the bitterness, cause it corrodes everything including a good friendship, BADLY.

Dr.Jones

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by drjones

P.S.-- About the 'Mistake' of the O team, I appreciate Arka for being bold enough to accept his mistake. Personally I can forgive him, but others might feel its because I was in the winning team. As a competitor it would be really tough to digest. I can understand. For all the effort he took in Organising such a great event and giving all of us a chance to compete in an event of international standards, I think he very well deserves to be forgiven. Its a learning process, TPC is evolving, everyone of us should give a helping hand and sacrifice a bit in its growth. It would be beneficial for all of us. So, to start with, instead of just talking, I need a solution and the problem to be stopped. As team BHP is a wonderful and a distinguished forum, I would like to hand over the decision to its members as of who should be the winner/Ist runner/IInd runner etc by calculating the points in such a way that it is fair for each and every competitor. I would be glad to hand over the trophy to a better winning team. I hope Vikram/Lokesh/Rajmohan/Ranjit would agree with me. Whatever the outcome, Iam willing to abide by the decision.
Guys, lets all join and clear the bitterness, cause it corrodes everything including a good friendship, BADLY.

Dr.Jones

First of all it was a pleasure to interact and watch your low bonnet perform. As i mentioned to you then, the SWB's are different beasts which these LWB boys wont understand

Second O team rocks!! i have no doubt, the amount of effort they have put is beyond words!! That's why i said "Toughest Challenge from an organizing perspective".

Third, atleast we (red 3) DON't have any contention for any prizes, coz we unanimously agree (between us) that we screwed up ourselves. Nobody can help or blamed. But we had fun doing that.

Fourth, please take a look at the image sheet i uploaded and decide for yourself why we are criticizing. Apart from winners and tail enders, everybody else is affected.

cheers
Jaggu

[SPIKE ARRESTOR]

Originally Posted by headers

Hey Spikey, We missed you and the THAR. Hope my friend Vinu is taking the necessary actions in your camp

Hmm, Headers congrats! So is this 3rd in a row? Necessary actions are taken by someone else, you know who it is :-P

[gsferrari]

Guys where are the rest of the pictures and videos? I've had to hold-off uploading from home because it isn't all that fun over Reliance Netconnect The rest of my videos are coming up tomorrow.

Hope the Bangalore team enjoyed the music from the first video (the registration and scrutiny) ? Your very own Raghu Dixit band...of whom I am a HUGE fan!

Doctor Jones - I was just telling Vikram on the phone yesterday that I am honored and privileged to know and interact with people like Patrick sir, UBS sir and yourself. All of you bring a nowadays rare "class" and gentility wherever you are. It was an ABSOLUTE honor to have all of you at my SS (5 on Day 1 and 3 on Day 2).

To the rest of the participants, it was an absolute honor to have met all of you and watched you guys go over the process of competing and having fun afterwards in the evening. Chennai is an awful place to go off-roading purely from a weather standpoint but where else can we get this sort of terrain with quality lodging and catering nearby? I will be a part of TPC 2011 and we are already having discussions on what we can do differently next year to make it better, tougher and more accessible.

This was my first TPC and I have only been offroading for 4 months now. Some of you have been at this game for YEARS and it was with a great degree of inner doubt that I set about designing the SS on Day-1. When I saw the ease with which my SS was dispatched with (despite snaring Vikram and a few others on the tricky exit to the 2nd climb) I decided to UP the game on Day-2.

When Allan's team (the first to arrive at my SS) refused to attempt the 2nd slush pit that I had marked out, the inner-doubt won over and I agreed to relocate the flags to skirt the slush pit. In my mind, since nobody gained or lost as a result of this change, it was well within the spirit of the event. I do believe that the 2nd slush pit could have been done because I checked the depth and it was only knee deep. The first slush pit which about 30% failed to cross and 70% crossed with relative ease (later in the day of course) was 3-4" above knee depth to begin with.

Now I have a better idea what is doable and what isn't so next time there won't be any inner-doubt. Some of you wanted to know if we drove the SS ourselves and the answer to that is YES. Most of the obstacles have been driven through before over numerous recces but not in the form of an SS. Arka told me that the slush pits on my SS had been used the previous year as well and that it was doable (this was when I confessed to him later in the evening that I wasn't sure I had done the right thing).

Regarding the mild fluctuations in the rules - you have to understand that whatever rules are applied on an SS are applicable to ALL participants. So even a minor change like negative marks for flags (which I enforced - see my scoring) may not have been enforced at other stages but I religiously ensured all participants were AWARE of the rule during the briefing.

I also took the trouble to show each of you the starting line and requested all of you to climb up to the top of the hill so I could show you the entire SS and explain the rules. On my SS, for your effort to classify as an attempt, the rear fender of the vehicle HAD to be past the line of the entry flags. This was the rule I enforced for ALL participants. What is the point in having a slush pit if someone wants to show their nose at the flags and walk away with 3 points and not pushing the machinery? The brave, skilled and spirited individuals walked away with 3 points in some cases...and 10 points in many cases but they all showed me that

TO WIN - YOU HAVE TO TRY!!

2010 is done with...roll on 2011.

[khan_sultan]

About the 'Mistake' of the O team, I appreciate Arka for being bold enough to accept his mistake.

Dr, that mistake is effecting other teams who deserve the award more than who are being given this award now because of this so called mistake. Why should our teams suffer?

Also, believe me, it is not just about those 3 SS's and 2 teams. As I said earlier, even the subjective awards raise a lot of questions for which we can't seem to find any logical answer

Originally Posted by drjones

...
..., I would like to hand over the decision to its members as of who should be the winner/Ist runner/IInd runner etc by calculating the points in such a way that it is fair for each and every competitor. I would be glad to hand over the trophy to a better winning team. I hope Vikram/Lokesh/Rajmohan/Ranjit would agree with me. Whatever the outcome, Iam willing to abide by the decision.

Dr, your team is a TRULY deserving winner. NO doubt about that -- not even for a fleeting second. You guys enjoy your happy moments as they are TRULY well deserved.

Guys, lets all join and clear the bitterness, cause it corrodes everything including a good friendship, BADLY...

Don't worry, this talking things in open will get rid of the bitterness and make sure that participants feeling & sentiments are understood. Afterall, we (the participants) make the event happen. What fun will TPC be if you just have 9 - 10 people taking part

I just hope that next years TPC is not handled the way it has been this year. I really would not want to miss it next year just because i have a doubt in my mind about scoring/transparency/fairness etc.

[joshguy]

COngrats to TPC2010 winners !!1

BTW where are the photos yaar? you people forgot all that due to the confusion going on the scores

[drjones]

Thanks Jaggu,
Just as you had mentioned, sometimes its better to have 'somethings' short ;-) and not Looong LOL.
I totally understand your criticism Bro, lets do something to end it.
Dr.Jones

[khan_sultan]

Guru, you did your job with full full professionalism & 100% commitment.

Originally Posted by gsferrari

....
Regarding the mild fluctuations in the rules - you have to understand that whatever rules are applied on an SS are applicable to ALL participants. So even a minor change like negative marks for flags (which I enforced - see my scoring) may not have been enforced at other stages but I religiously ensured all participants were AWARE of the rule during the briefing.

....

While what you say seems to make sense BUT still I disagree. Rules should be implemented & interpreted in SAME manner by ALL marshalls at all stages. It's having different interpretation of rules that creates confusion.

Example: Major Roy allowing ALL vehicles to go through at his SS but Manoj stopping ALL vehciles to not go through at his SS. So you can say that at that time rules were uniform for all teams at that stage but still from an overall perspective it is creating havoc.

Rules should be for the whole event and not per SS/Marshall.

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by gsferrari

Arka told me that the slush pits on my SS had been used the previous year as well and that it was doable (this was when I confessed to him later in the evening that I wasn't sure I had done the right thing).

Dear things change in Palar within days, that's what people told me

From safety perspective of man and machine, i atleast believe that if my vehicle cant clear it in the morning of the same day, i will not ask others also.

Not pointing fingers at you but i heard Arka also mention the same at ceremony and thought i should make myself very clear.

You have done the right thing from your side.

egs: our beloved Sarjapur pit is a piece of cake these days lol

Originally Posted by gsferrari

Regarding the mild fluctuations in the rules - you have to understand that whatever rules are applied on an SS are applicable to ALL participants. So even a minor change like negative marks for flags (which I enforced - see my scoring) may not have been enforced at other stages but I religiously ensured all participants were AWARE of the rule during the briefing.

I also took the trouble to show each of you the starting line and requested all of you to climb up to the top of the hill so I could show you the entire SS and explain the rules. On my SS, for your effort to classify as an attempt, the rear fender of the vehicle HAD to be past the line of the entry flags. This was the rule I enforced for ALL participants. What is the point in having a slush pit if someone wants to show their nose at the flags and walk away with 3 points and not pushing the machinery? The brave, skilled and spirited individuals walked away with 3 points in some cases...and 10 points in many cases but they all showed me that

TO WIN - YOU HAVE TO TRY!!

2010 is done with...roll on 2011.

GS again you are one of the exceptions! along with few others

Originally Posted by khan_sultan

I just hope that next years TPC is not handled the way it has been this year. I really would not want to miss it next year just because i have a doubt in my mind about scoring/transparency/fairness etc.

Yes please take this as a challenge, so that next TPC will be bigger and better. And please don't wake us up at 5 in the morning!

Originally Posted by joshguy

BTW where are the photos yaar? you people forgot all that due to the confusion going on the scores

I carried a DSLR with 2 lens and never even took the camera out of the bag, coz i was instructed to be serious for a change!!