Team-BHP > Buckle Up > 4x4 & Off-Roading > 4x4 Technical


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 6th June 2018, 00:06   #76
BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: shimla
Posts: 273
Thanked: 297 Times
Default Re: Thar CRDe: Improving its low-end torque

Quote:
Originally Posted by The King View Post
It's not about overtaking or experience, it's about that the Thar is Stalling and requires too much clutch slippage to push it further. No one is competing in drag race, it's just the stand still start performance on steep hills is alot poor that even an Alto can manage very easily.
It is a problem all turbo diesel cars inevitably face. I had an alto about 6 years ago and it was a joy to drive on hilly roads. I drive a figo 1.5 TDCI now and it struggles on very steep hill starts especially with 4-5 on board. The humble alto could handle any hill start you throw at it. Most turbo diesels face this problem. For hilly starts any naturally aspirated petrol or diesel will always be better than a turbo diesel.
bullrun87 is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 6th June 2018, 08:35   #77
Distinguished - BHPian
 
dhanushs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bathery/BLR
Posts: 3,716
Thanked: 5,710 Times
Default Re: Thar CRDe: Improving its low-end torque

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
I am going to try this soon. I have yet to find a clearly reputable re-map shop anywhere near me. I'd like to try that. I will soldier on along that route.
You can remove your ECU from any workshop and send it to Bangalore. They will do the remap and send it back to you.

Quote:
A question for you, Dhanushs. Behram at one point said to just plonk in a 2.6L. He says it's a bolt in propostion since the OE Thar CRDe engine is derived from the 2.6
It will be a bolt on fit, but, I wouldnt recommend it. Not much to gain. The Thar 2.5 Engine itself is more than sufficient once remapped. The problem in hilly areas is low air density. Hence lesser power than in figures, especially below the turbo range. You should try the fix I mentioned above - HUGE difference.
dhanushs is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 6th June 2018, 11:30   #78
Senior - BHPian
 
DirtyDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Dharamsala
Posts: 1,888
Thanked: 978 Times
Default Re: Thar CRDe: Improving its low-end torque

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
There is a sensor on top of the air filter, the Air Mass Sensor. Disconnect it and you will feel a tremendous difference if living in a hilly area with lesser than average air density.

AFAIK, the job of the sensor is to reduce the fueling when the air mass reduces, to avoid fueling to be rich and avoid smoke. With that removed, fuelling will run in the richest setting.
Disconnected it this Morning at 3000 feet. Even at this elevation there was quite an improvement in performance. Immediately noticeable. I did not see any black smoke until I got the revs up to 3600 or so. And it smokes at that rev with the air sensor connected anyway. No smoke during normal driving. I would expect any coking to affect the exhaust valves and that is an acceptable risk to me. The difference is quite amazing! My front end actually rose under heavy acceleration!

Really good tip, Danushs Any idea how much a new ECM for this Thar would cost? Might keep the old one running while waiting for the new one to get tweaked. And/or, might keep trying to find a shop in Chandigarh or Punjab.
DirtyDan is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 6th June 2018, 16:30   #79
Newbie
 
KA09_BIKER_GPER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Mysore
Posts: 18
Thanked: 62 Times
Default Re: Thar CRDe: Improving its low-end torque

So I tried disconnecting the MAF sensor on my 2014 CRDe and boy o boy it's a different animal! Here are my impressions,
  • Check Engine light did not flash.
  • Lot of engine clatter if throttle pressed > 50%. Sounds like a tractor!
  • Significant improvement in pick up from stand still.
  • CRDe is quite sluggish till the turbo spools. Now it just leaps forward between 1K to 2K RPM.
  • Post turbo spool and over 2K RPM there is noticeable increase in pick up.
  • As DirtyDan mentioned, the front does rise on hard acceleration.
I'm not sure if this is going to harm the engine or not but I will be reverting, since I am used to the linear power delivery and prefer it that way. I'm sure people up in the hills will benefit from this little mod.

Last edited by aah78 : 6th June 2018 at 17:03. Reason: reverting back ;)
KA09_BIKER_GPER is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 7th June 2018, 13:17   #80
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NSR
Posts: 41
Thanked: 28 Times
Default Re: Thar CRDe: Improving its low-end torque

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
You can remove your ECU from any workshop and send it to Bangalore. They will do the remap and send it back to you.

Thanks,

May I know, where to send?

Would that also mean, that the warranty will be void, if someone goes for after market remap?
TurboDiesel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th June 2018, 11:02   #81
Senior - BHPian
 
DirtyDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Dharamsala
Posts: 1,888
Thanked: 978 Times
Default Re: Thar CRDe: Improving its low-end torque

Well, a light finally did come on but it isn't the main "Check Engine" light. It's the "MIL"
light.

According to the 2013 Handbook this means either:

1.) Something other than the EMS (Engine Management System) ain't right...(air sensor)
OR
2.) An angry elephant has shoved a watermelon up your exhaust pipe.

I can live with the light which is a lovely pale yellow matching my eyes. Engine running great, still.

Last edited by DirtyDan : 8th June 2018 at 11:06.
DirtyDan is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 8th June 2018, 11:57   #82
BHPian
 
ashishy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: MH02
Posts: 186
Thanked: 76 Times
Default Re: Thar CRDe: Improving its low-end torque

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
Well, a light finally did come on but it isn't the main "Check Engine" light. It's the "MIL"
light.

According to the 2013 Handbook this means either:

1.) Something other than the EMS (Engine Management System) ain't right...(air sensor)
OR
2.) An angry elephant has shoved a watermelon up your exhaust pipe.

I can live with the light which is a lovely pale yellow matching my eyes. Engine running great, still.
What is the difference between check engine and mil light. I thought both are same? Possible to share a picture?
ashishy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th June 2018, 13:57   #83
Senior - BHPian
 
DirtyDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Dharamsala
Posts: 1,888
Thanked: 978 Times
Default Re: Thar CRDe: Improving its low-end torque

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashishy View Post
What is the difference between check engine and mil light. I thought both are same? Possible to share a picture?
My 2013 has two check engine lights. This is only my guess, the MIL
(malfunction indicator light) may refer to peripheral engine components like
the air mass sensor. The other light is is the EMS (engine management system).

Both throw computer codes which can be read thru the OBD terminal (On Board Diagnostic) in a vehicle.

Mahindra's 2013 manual is poorly written and doesn't really shed light. You might Google it to get your answers.

But I am going to keep driving with the MIL light on unless something bad happens. It's not distracting and the power gain is tremendous. "Learn by doing is my motto"...a motto which has occasionally led to some long walks home.
DirtyDan is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 24th June 2018, 17:42   #84
BHPian
 
sharc_biker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Mysore
Posts: 91
Thanked: 233 Times
Default Re: Thar CRDe: Improving its low-end torque

I had disconnected the MAF sensor on my 2011 Thar as it had turned faulty and I've run the Thar that way for close to 2 years. The check engine light used to be on most of the time and the vehicle emitted a ton of black smoke on medium-heavy acceleration. The power delivery wasn't always the smoothest but it never felt inadequate.

I got a new MAF sensor installed a few months ago and I liked how the vehicle delivers the power in a smoother and more linear way as opposed to the raw uneven manner before.

I also got a Dieseltronic piggyback ECU remap installed. The P2 mode is definitely an improvement though one would feel most of the extra power start after 1600-1700 rpm. I have used this mode in the recent BAOTR event and the engine temperature never shot up beyond normal.

I use the stock and P1 mode most of the time and I really like how quickly one can change modes on the go. I also liked the fact that it is a piggyback ECU and it takes only 10-15 minutes to disconnect and bypass the dieseltronic box altogether if required.

The Economy mode is great to go downhill as the engine idles at a lower rpm giving you a slower crawl speed. But one problem I face with this mode is the battery isn't charging (or not charging enough) as the horn fades until it completely stops working on the go. A quick change to P1 or P2 is solving the problem for now.

IMO, a tuning chip with selectable modes is the best bet when it comes to the Thar's performance issues as it offers the flexibility of either running stock everything for reliability and an option of a performance boost for those times when you need it.

Last edited by sharc_biker : 24th June 2018 at 17:45.
sharc_biker is online now   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 9th September 2018, 15:28   #85
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NSR
Posts: 41
Thanked: 28 Times
Default Re: Thar CRDe: Improving its low-end torque

Does anyone has a definitive solution, where to get remapping done in Punjab?
Thar is sluggish as hell when climbing uphills from stand still.

Last edited by TurboDiesel : 9th September 2018 at 15:29.
TurboDiesel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th September 2018, 17:03   #86
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Pune
Posts: 879
Thanked: 1,503 Times
Default Re: Thar CRDe: Improving its low-end torque

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
Disconnected it this Morning at 3000 feet. Even at this elevation there was quite an improvement in performance. Immediately noticeable. I did not see any black smoke until I got the revs up to 3600 or so. And it smokes at that rev with the air sensor connected anyway. No smoke during normal driving.
If your car is out of warranty try extending the wire to the sensor, and adding a switch for it on the dash. use the switch to disconnect the sensor while taking a graded start, and run with the sensor connected in normal conditions.
You can also have relay and a one touch or bell switch with a 8 second timer.
Older engines had 8 second timers for glow plug relays.
I think that 8 seconds is usually enough to gain momentum.
This way you get the low end torque on demand with a single tap and minimise any carbon formation and exhaust clogging by running a rich mix.

I feel that all 4X4 vehicles should have torque at idle or at 1000rpm also mentioned in the specifications.
Try driving a 2.6 Thar DI or force Gurkha both of which have low power and torque in their specs, but still climb or start better on grades.

Rahul
Rahul Rao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2018, 19:40   #87
Senior - BHPian
 
DirtyDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Dharamsala
Posts: 1,888
Thanked: 978 Times
Default Re: Thar CRDe: Improving its low-end torque

Is there any Thar CRDe owner of a 2017-2018 model that has tried unplugging
the air mass sensor? What was the result? I am wondering if the result is the same for a 2018 as it is for a 2013 such as mine.

I am thinking of buying a new 2018 Thar but I will want to unplug the air mass sensor, EGR and then also remap its ECU.

Rahul, I am not really worried about carbon build up. But, an air mass switch is a good idea to get thru instrumented pollution checks, should they commence where I am.
DirtyDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th September 2018, 20:04   #88
BHPian
 
Safari_Beast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Faridabad
Posts: 316
Thanked: 232 Times
Default Re: Thar CRDe: Improving its low-end torque

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboDiesel View Post
Does anyone has a definitive solution, where to get remapping done in Punjab?
Thar is sluggish as hell when climbing uphills from stand still.

Get the thar remapped by Quantam tuning delhi , they will get your car dyno'ed before and after remap so that you can get exact figure after remap.
Safari_Beast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th September 2018, 14:56   #89
Senior - BHPian
 
DirtyDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Dharamsala
Posts: 1,888
Thanked: 978 Times
Default Re: Thar CRDe: Improving its low-end torque

Quote:
Originally Posted by Safari_Beast View Post
Get the thar remapped by Quantam tuning delhi , they will get your car dyno'ed before and after remap so that you can get exact figure after remap.
I sometimes think it would be easier to score some illegal drugs than to find a working tele number of a legit re-mapping shop in India.

Google not much help with this. Numbers given that don't work. Wrong numbers. People answering who don't want to give their location...it's really strange and suspicious.
DirtyDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th September 2018, 15:07   #90
BHPian
 
Safari_Beast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Faridabad
Posts: 316
Thanked: 232 Times
Default Re: Thar CRDe: Improving its low-end torque

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
I sometimes think it would be easier to score some illegal drugs than to find a working tele number of a legit re-mapping shop in India.

Google not much help with this. Numbers given that don't work. Wrong numbers. People answering who don't want to give their location...it's really strange and suspicious.

I don't get it whom you are referring to , but i know four tuners tune-o-tronics ( banglore ) , code 6 ( banglore ) , quantan tuning ( delhi ) , autopysche ( gurgaon- this guy can put maps of code 6 , TOT , revo , tvs engineering ). Till now i have got my two cars remapped from Tune o tronics and have been very satisfactory plus no single issue encountered even after driving 100 K kms on remap. Remap and tuning in india has grown overall , i have more then 20 friends known personally running their remapped cars without any issues. All of these tuners are reachable anytime in case there is any issue. Now even there is running dyno from speedsport in delhi so that we can know how much power has increased after remap. Let me know if you need contacts for any of these guys , i will be happy to assist.
Safari_Beast is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2011 i10 Asta A/T - its Korean, its new, its fast, its red, and its coming. nirupesh Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 1 8th January 2011 10:45
Same issue - opposite effects on low end torque Jeep Technical Stuff 6 26th June 2008 13:38
Increase Low end torque in Swift Petrol pshyamsundar Modifications & Accessories 5 4th April 2007 12:30
Mod for low end torque in Swift talk2anand Technical Stuff 34 31st October 2006 10:20
giving the Swift some low end torque and fatter wheels theEnd Modifications & Accessories 14 21st November 2005 19:07


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 14:41.

Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks