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Old 6th April 2021, 17:39   #1666
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Default Re: The Offroad Rims & Tyres Thread

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The ban has partially been lifted and tyre companies were granted import licensed in January but I think they are allowed to import only about 40% of their sales volumes from previous years. I discussed the issue with the regional sales head of a reputed brand and he feels that initially the tyre companies want to utilize that 40% volume to bring in tires used more commonly to cater to the demand of luxury vehicles rather than bring in niche sizes for off roaders/enthusiasts.
I am glad some of you guys explained this tyre import ban.

For awhile there I actually entertained the notion that some power-elite types hyjacked government and funneled the market toward cheap inferior Indian tyres for less than honorable purposes, power and greed. Gee-whizzers, Captain Ned, I am sure glad that isn't so. I am so relieved!

Peaky, how about 4X4 specialty shops like Azad in Mohali and Bimbra in Gurgaon? If they have a tyre you would probably pay big bucks for it...but???

I would avoid radical tyre size changes myself.
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Old 5th June 2021, 16:20   #1667
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Is there anyone running LT metric A/T tyres on air pressures like 26psi routinely? Have you noticed increased wear and tear due to this?

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Old 5th June 2021, 17:30   #1668
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Is there anyone running LT metric A/T tyres on air pressures like 26psi routinely? Have you noticed increased wear and tear due to this?

Thanks
To ad a different perspective to my previous question (too late to edit it) - Will the ride quality of an LT-metric tyre at 32psi be the same as a P-metric tyre at 26psi given that the thicker construction of an LT-metric results in less air compared to a P-metric for the exact same tyre outer dimensions?
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Old 9th June 2021, 11:27   #1669
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To ad a different perspective to my previous question (too late to edit it) - Will the ride quality of an LT-metric tyre at 32psi be the same as a P-metric tyre at 26psi given that the thicker construction of an LT-metric results in less air compared to a P-metric for the exact same tyre outer dimensions?
I replaced the stock Bridgestone D684ís with BFG KO2ís.
Thatís a p metric tire replaced by a LT tire. No change in tire size. The BFGís have a speed rating of 180kmph and a load index of 119 vs the 210kmph/110 load index of the Duelers.

Toyota recommends 29psi F/R. I used to run 32psi on the Duelers as an acceptable tradeoff between ride and handling.

Using the same pressure on the BFGís results in an unacceptable bouncy ride at highway speeds.

Reducing the tire pressure to 29psi made the ride acceptable but not as comfortable as the Duelers at 32psi.
However the Fortuner handling at 29psi with the BFGís is better than the Duelers at 32psi.
On high speed turns the BFGíS start squealing at a higher speed and can be pushed harder before the vehicle starts to slide.

Unfortunately fuel consumption does take a significant hit with me struggling to achieve double digits on the highway, while I would average 12kmpl on the Duelers.

Hope that answers your question.
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Old 12th June 2021, 04:58   #1670
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Originally Posted by ValuableRecluse View Post
I replaced the stock Bridgestone D684’s with BFG KO2’s.
That’s a p metric tire replaced by a LT tire. No change in tire size. The BFG’s have a speed rating of 180kmph and a load index of 119 vs the 210kmph/110 load index of the Duelers.

Toyota recommends 29psi F/R. I used to run 32psi on the Duelers as an acceptable tradeoff between ride and handling.

Using the same pressure on the BFG’s results in an unacceptable bouncy ride at highway speeds.

Reducing the tire pressure to 29psi made the ride acceptable but not as comfortable as the Duelers at 32psi.
However the Fortuner handling at 29psi with the BFG’s is better than the Duelers at 32psi.
On high speed turns the BFG’S start squealing at a higher speed and can be pushed harder before the vehicle starts to slide.

Unfortunately fuel consumption does take a significant hit with me struggling to achieve double digits on the highway, while I would average 12kmpl on the Duelers.

Hope that answers your question.
Thanks for replying.

The reason for my question is this - From what I know , an LT metric tyre has a lower load rating than a P metric tyre at the same psi. For example if a P metric tyre is safe for 750kg at 28psi an LT metric tyre requires 34psi to safely carry the same load. Correspondingly while a P metric tyre may have a max pressure of 40 psi for its max load capacity, an LT metric tyre can be inflated to 50+ psi for additional load capacity. Just an arbitrary example to illustrate the point. Therefore the minimum safe inflation pressure for an LT tyre would be much lower.

Logically then an LT metric tyre would have a minimum safe pressure for highway driving in the long term that is way higher than a P metric tyre - for the same load carrying capacity. Unless momentarily driving on sand at relatively low speeds for traction.

So my doubt is more like whether running the LT metric tyre at 34 psi is roughly equivalent to the riding comfort of a P metric tyre at 28 psi? Since LT tyres have a thicker carcass and sidewalls with extra ply and deeper treads. So the volume of air inside for the exact same outer dimensions as a P metric tyre is less.

That said you should review the psi vs load capacity graph for your tyre if you can obtain it from BFG. I suspect you are compromising on safety by running the LT tyre at a psi the tyre should not be run at for highway driving - unless your car is always lightly loaded.

Last edited by Ragul : 12th June 2021 at 05:10.
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Old 12th June 2021, 07:14   #1671
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My comment is based upon the assumption that the tire size in question is 265/65R17.

Fitting E-rated LT tires on Toyota Fortuner is a gross overkill and would result in a bouncy ride as compared to a P metric tire which is the OE fitment.

E-rated BFG KO2 comes in at 50Lbs vs 36lbs for the Bridgestone Dueller 684 for 265/65R17 sized tire. This would result in 56lbs (for all 4 tires) of extra unsprung weight that will put a strain on the axles/wheel bearing/transmission and the driveline. Higher than the design unsprung weight also affects handling and steering adversely.

So unless you’re going off the pavement on a regular basis/carrying very heavyweight (although even in that case, the OE tires are designed to carry the GVW of the vehicle), I fail to see the advantage of an E rated tire on a passenger-carrying vehicle. Additionally, E-rated tires are meant for load-carrying commercial vehicles such as ĺ ton pickup trucks owing to their extra load carrying capacity that is typically required for such applications.

As LT-rated tires are required to be inflated at a higher tire pressure for the same load; using the same tire pressure for P metric on the LT tires would be not only incorrect but also unsafe.

For these tires, if the OEM recommended pressure is 29psi for the P metric tires then for the E-rated LT tire the correct tire pressure would be 41psi*.
In case you can get hold of the BFG's load vs tire pressure chart that would be ideal.

* www.tiresize.com.

Name:  LT Vs P.JPG
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Last edited by Vikram Arya : 12th June 2021 at 07:18. Reason: Addition of content
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Old 12th June 2021, 21:38   #1672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragul View Post
Logically then an LT metric tyre would have a minimum safe pressure for highway driving in the long term that is way higher than a P metric tyre - for the same load carrying capacity. Unless momentarily driving on sand at relatively low speeds for traction.
Interesting discussion.

Iíve always considered the manufacturers recommended tire pressure as just that, Ďrecommendedí.

Tire pressure depends on the conditions,
Road- smooth high speed or bumpy low speed.
Offroad- sand, soft-sand, rocks etc.
Load-GVM or significantly lower?
Tires- stock or oversize.

All things considered, while in the drivers seat
The vehicle should feel right.

No point inflating the tires to 35psi and bouncing into the outside lane while negotiating a rumble strip at 40kmph.

29psi feels just right to me for my Fortuner loaded with 350kgs.

After cruising on a highway for at least 45 minutes I stop and touch the sidewalls of all tires. Thatís my first indication that something is amiss, if more than lukewarm.

Also if the tire continues to bound and bounce on a cement expressway at cruise speed, that will eventually lead to youíre shocks overheating and failing prematurely due to the heat buildup.
Also your family will prefer to fly than sit in your car for a day

But like I said, interesting discussion. Iíve done 5k in the BFGs so far, and nothing has failed yet. Will keep you posted.

In the meantime Iím sure there are other members on this thread using BFGís .
What tire pressure are youíll running?

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Originally Posted by Vikram Arya View Post

E-rated BFG KO2 comes in at 50Lbs vs 36lbs for the Bridgestone Dueller 684 for 265/65R17 sized tire. This would result in 56lbs (for all 4 tires) of extra unsprung weight that will put a strain on the axles/wheel bearing/transmission and the driveline. Higher than the design unsprung weight also affects handling and steering adversely.
The Fortuner is an incredibly versatile vehicle. You can drive for 1000km from Mumbai to the Sam dunes in reasonable comfort and still have the energy to hit the dunes. All you have to do is deflate youíre tires.

But the stock tires are the chink in the Fortunerís armour. Donít get me wrong, theyíre more than enough for the vast majority of owners who never leave the pavement. But if you do go Offroad youíll find they get coated with mud and become as smooth as doughnuts within seconds.
Also their sidewalls are paper thin and prone to damage as Iíve unfortunately experienced.

So when it came to tire replacement for my vehicle, my requirements were simple- tough sidewall, aggressive thread, low noise at highway speeds and reasonable grip on dry and wet roads.

In India weíre seriously restricted with tire choice in this size and category. BFGs suited me perfectly. I didnít choose them for the LT, load carrying capability.

I get what youíre trying to explain to me but if you check the Fortuner Aussie and South African forums, drivers there have been using them for years at 1.8-2.2 bar.

Last edited by Sheel : 22nd June 2021 at 08:12. Reason: Please use the EDIT or QUOTE+ (multi-quote) button instead of typing one post after another on the SAME THREAD! Thanks.
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Old 16th June 2021, 01:29   #1673
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Ok I agree as long as your gross weight in actual usage is low it is do-able. I recall reading a safety report that an LT tyre inflated low like a P-metric tyre is bound to fail sooner than a P-metric tyre, notwithstanding the thicker carcass and sidewalls etc. Heat being the biggest killer. But yeah no point suffering the bouncy ride.

I plan to get the LT metric Yoko Geolander G015s instead of the P-metric for two reasons -1. Tougher sidewall 2. More aggressive shoulders (than P-metric) for those Off-Road moments. But my impression of aggressive shoulders for the LT metric tyres is based purely on observing online pics. I am yet to inspect and confirm in person for real. Currently my Gypsy has the older Yoko Geo G012 in P-metric.

I am just apprehensive of making an already average ride even worse with the LT metric tyre. While I drive asphalt mostly I want to equip my car for the vacation rides in bad terrain because that’s what suits the character of a vehicle like the Gypsy.

Last edited by Ragul : 16th June 2021 at 01:32.
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Old 17th June 2021, 01:51   #1674
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Default Re: The Offroad Rims & Tyres Thread

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Originally Posted by ValuableRecluse View Post
The Fortuner is an incredibly versatile vehicle. You can drive for 1000km from Mumbai to the Sam dunes in reasonable comfort and still have the energy to hit the dunes. All you have to do is deflate you’re tires.

But the stock tires are the chink in the Fortuner’s armour. Don’t get me wrong, they’re more than enough for the vast majority of owners who never leave the pavement. But if you do go Offroad you’ll find they get coated with mud and become as smooth as doughnuts within seconds.
Also their sidewalls are paper thin and prone to damage as I’ve unfortunately experienced.

So when it came to tire replacement for my vehicle, my requirements were simple- tough sidewall, aggressive thread, low noise at highway speeds and reasonable grip on dry and wet roads.

In India we’re seriously restricted with tire choice in this size and category. BFGs suited me perfectly. I didn’t choose them for the LT, load carrying capability.

I get what you’re trying to explain to me but if you check the Fortuner Aussie and South African forums, drivers there have been using them for years at 1.8-2.2 bar.
First off, I'm so very impressed with the quality of the discussion on this thread (a lot of learning for me as well).

You're right, it is indeed ironic that given the depth & breadth of the range of vehicles in India we do not access to a wide range of tires both in terms of sizes/specs or load rating, etc.
There is no doubt that an LT tire has a much more robust construction and therefore more capable of sustaining abuse than let's say a P metric tire; an LT tire comes with its own set of negatives, and as long as you're willing to live with those, it's all good.

Just so you know even the mighty Jeep Wrangler Rubicon (US) the granddaddy of them all comes with BFG T/A KO2s (C load range) from the factory.

As for Aussies using the LT tires on their Fortuners; I totally get it for they take their rigs to bush far more often than we are likely to do it in India (with exceptions of course). Additionally, a lot of these guys have off-road bumpers/winches/rooftop tents and other miscellaneous off-road equipment thus the load that these rigs are carrying is far more than what we are likely to load our vehicles with; their off-road credentials notwithstanding.

I'm no expert but I feel a better tire (subject to availability) would have been a BFG KO2 in the "C" load range which is an LT tire but with a C-rated tire and not an E rated which I think is a bit of an overkill (I'm told BFG so far has a limited range available in India).

Bottom line, if these tires work for you, all the power to you man for you know your vehicle/application better than anyone else.

The Offroad Rims & Tyres Thread-ko2.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragul View Post
Ok I agree as long as your gross weight in actual usage is low it is doable. I recall reading a safety report that an LT tyre inflated low like a P-metric tyre is bound to fail sooner than a P-metric tyre, notwithstanding the thicker carcass and sidewalls etc. Heat being the biggest killer. But yeah no point suffering the bouncy ride.

I plan to get the LT metric Yoko Geolander G015s instead of the P-metric for two reasons -1. Tougher sidewall 2. More aggressive shoulders (than P-metric) for those Off-Road moments. But my impression of aggressive shoulders for the LT metric tires is based purely on observing online pics. I am yet to inspect and confirm in person for real. Currently, my Gypsy has the older Yoko Geo G012 in P-metric.

I am just apprehensive of making an already average ride even worse with the LT metric tyre. While I drive asphalt mostly I want to equip my car for the vacation rides in bad terrain because that’s what suits the character of a vehicle like the Gypsy.
That's a great tire that you're considering. I have the same on my 2016 Gypsy and driven it all over the lower Himalayas without a single puncture though I have read some user feedback to the contrary. Although these are LT tires they have a "C" load range so basically a 6 ply rating and 1765 lbs max load per tire and maximum inflation pressure of 50psi (215/75R15).

Last edited by Vikram Arya : 17th June 2021 at 01:55. Reason: Adjusting spacing
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Old 17th June 2021, 02:08   #1675
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That's a great tire that you're considering. I have the same on my 2016 Gypsy and driven it all over the lower Himalayas without a single puncture though I have read some user feedback to the contrary. Although these are LT tires they have a "C" load range so basically a 6 ply rating and 1765 lbs max load per tire and maximum inflation pressure of 50psi (215/75R15).
Exactly why I'm considering Yokos once again! I've done +90k kms on my Yoko Geo G012 now with just one mild puncture in 10 yrs that resulted in losing half the air pressure over a few days, and another one an L shaped sidewall cut due to a step elevation at my parking spot - I park right next to the electricity panels of my apartment and hit the sharp edge of the step while parking. And I've driven over some really bad roads at +50kmph because the gypsy suspension performs better at high speed than low. I'm totally sold on the puncture free ride I've enjoyed over a decade. I don't care if there are other tyres that give an extra mythical X% over the Yokos in some narrow usage scenario. This worry free experience trumps everything else!

Yes the C rating is another aspect that makes me positive about the LTs after considering the possible negatives with some dread! Good point you highlighted.

Last edited by Ragul : 17th June 2021 at 02:16.
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Old 17th June 2021, 13:21   #1676
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Originally Posted by Vikram Arya View Post

I'm no expert but I feel a better tire (subject to availability) would have been a BFG KO2 in the "C" load range which is an LT tire but with a C-rated tire and not an E rated which I think is a bit of an overkill (I'm told BFG so far has a limited range available in India).
Yes a C rated tire would be perfect for my application as the ride would be more pliant and the tire would be about 5lbs lighter, reducing the unsprung mass. Unfortunately, for some inexplicable reason BFG doesn't build a C rated 265/60R18.
Which leaves me with 2 options, either get 17" wheels or upsize to D rated 285/60R18.

Both options not too attractive as the current 265/60 (due to the wider BFG construction) just about fit in the wheel wells with the stock suspension. Negotiating a descending hairpin bend on a bumpy track has the inside front tire scrubbing the wheel arch momentarily.
So a suspension upgrade/lift would be required.

Any of these mods would also void my extended warranty.

I did consider the Apollo AT2, which in isolation looks like a great tire.
But if you put it next to a BFG they look like HT's
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Old 22nd June 2021, 01:05   #1677
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Silly me! I just had a closer look at the smaller print on my existing Yoko G012 and it’s an LT metric! Guess I got fooled by the design of the shoulder of the G015 images on the Internet and thought the flatter and smoother HT like shoulder profile of the G012 may be For P metric. I failed remember that the G015 has its slight design changes.

This means I can safely run the new tyres I will buy without bumping up the psi… So my biggest apprehension is taken care of.

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Old 22nd June 2021, 03:38   #1678
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Yes a C rated tire would be perfect for my application as the ride would be more pliant and the tire would be about 5lbs lighter, reducing the unsprung mass. Unfortunately, for some inexplicable reason BFG doesn't build a C rated 265/60R18.
Which leaves me with 2 options, either get 17" wheels or upsize to D rated 285/60R18.

Both options not too attractive as the current 265/60 (due to the wider BFG construction) just about fit in the wheel wells with the stock suspension. Negotiating a descending hairpin bend on a bumpy track has the inside front tire scrubbing the wheel arch momentarily.
So a suspension upgrade/lift would be required.

Any of these mods would also void my extended warranty.

I did consider the Apollo AT2, which in isolation looks like a great tire.
But if you put it next to a BFG they look like HT's
All these are great points and I'm in agreement with you as I too would like to same tire size rather than change wheel size or do any body chop to accommodate wider tires.

I wonder if you ever considered Falke WILDPEAK A/T AT3WA tires. These tires are available in India. These are lighter as compared to BFG KO2 by about 9lbs per tire. Their load index is 110 @2,337 lbs per tire which is a bit lower than that of the KO2 but is more than enough for the Fortuner.

The Offroad Rims & Tyres Thread-falken.jpg

One of my neighbour who has got a Ford F-150 has these on and he has already done 48,000 kms on these tires without a problem.

Falken is a great brand & I'm considering Falken Azenis FK510 for my 535i. It's a bit underrated tire and in my own research and discussion with some end users {owners of Lexus GX 460 (a twin brother of Toyota Landcruiser Prado) & Toyota 4 Runner who swear by Falken Wildpeak A/T3W} I believe that it is a great tire brand with solid Japanese R&D behind it. Falken owned by Sumitomo Corporation.

Something to consider for your next tire change.
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