MM550 rebuild - new engine ?

bigman · 9th February 2009, 23:32

Some of you may know but I became the owner of a 2001 MM550 last week (army disposal). I had not started a new thread as I do not have any pictures.

I encountered the first big decision in the rebuild. The mechanic took the engine out etc and had a good look at it. It is not in very good condition and he says it will cost at least RS18K to get it into running condition (fuel pump etc needs work, head is not in good condition etc etc).

However he can get a 2003/4 Bolero XD3P engine which is in excellent working order. The chap want RS12K for it, having studied actuarial science etc my brian tells me it is better (financially) to go for the 2003/4 engine. He says the gearbox/transfer case look fine and they will mate with the new engine without any problems. I will get him to change belts, tensioners etc for peace of mind.

I have asked my cousin to contact a place in Punjab where they buy army disposals to check if they have any later MM550 engines with the 5 speed box.

So please can anyone point out any negatives of going for the 03/04 Bolero engine ? I know the army version has an oil cooler and a few extra bhp but besides that are there any other major differences ?

Thanks in advance.

SirAlec · 9th February 2009, 23:42

WHen you bought! it was not even in working order.?

12k for that engine is a steal. But i guess he will want this engine in exchange.

I would recommend you to do and post here the compression test data. So that we can be sure of the condition of your engine.

PS: some images please.

bigman · 9th February 2009, 23:55

Thanks for your quick reply Alec.

Nope not in working order. These army disposals are rarely in working order. Chassis and body are in excellent condition though. The gearbox and transfer case appear to be fine as well.

Yes thats with the current engine in exchange but I could pay a bit more and keep it if I want.

Are there any negatives to using the newer Bolero XD3P ? Also how much is it for brand spanking new XD3P ? I have asked him to start the 03/04 engine and make sure it is in decent condition etc.

I asked my old neighbour to take some pictures but he has not bothered yet. Strange how when he needs help/favours he is willing to do anything, I guess thats human nature.

4x4addict · 10th February 2009, 00:22

I think you should get the Bolero engine if it in good condition. Make sure you remove the oil cooler from the army engine and transfer it to the Bolero engine. These engines are identical except that the army version is tuned output 75 bhp as opposed to 72 pre bsII or 68 for bs II for the Bolero version. I am sure that you can adjust the fuel pump to get the same output as the army version. The army version also has the oil cooler. Other than these two changes, they are the same engines.

New one costs upward of 2 Lakhs. GTO did get one for his Classic.

bigman · 10th February 2009, 01:27

Thanks for that 4x4addict.

I will tell him to take it off and fit to the Bolero engine.

Whereabouts is the oil cooler on the MM550 engine ?

4x4addict · 10th February 2009, 02:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigman

Whereabouts is the oil cooler on the MM550 engine ?

It is placed between the engine and the oil filter. There is a pipe that runs water from the radiator through the cooler.

bigman · 10th February 2009, 02:28

Thanks for that. I have passed on the message to keep the oil cooler.

Just got to wait to see if the army disposal guy has a working engine with a 5 speed box and transfer case before buying the bolero unit.

randeep04 · 10th February 2009, 11:53

Hey Satnam,

Congrats on your new purchase. Waiting for some pics brother. keep pestering your neighbor so that he does take the pics and sends them to you.

Cheers and all the best !!!!!!!

bigman · 10th February 2009, 22:08

Thanks guys.

He got the bolero engine delivered (not paid for yet) and he says he is going to start it etc before he commits to buying it.

How far gone would an engine have to be before it is beyond use. If the sump & head are ok and the fuel pump can be calibrated then it should be ok ....?

Maybe the mechanic is looking for the quickest and cheapest option. I will give him a ring and ask him exactly what is wrong with the original engine.

I am going to keep the original engine as well and get a second opinion on it. They were not giving much for it anyway and it can sit in our garage rather instead of a scrap merchants yard.

TheARUN · 11th February 2009, 13:51

Its a very good idea to keep the old engine.

What I usually do is keep the old parts and then open them up and experiment, put them back again and get the general know-how, anyways it can be sold as scrap later.

Its a very good idea to keep the old engine, and open it up and re-assemble it on your own, awesome education at very less fees

toms_2191 · 11th February 2009, 21:13

two things i always check about engines may be it can help you..

1),Remove breather pipe and lift engine oil dip stick. accelerate the engine to maximum and check any fumes or smoke coming out through both places. hold your hand above breather hole and check the suction power.

If smoke is coming or you don't feel any suction power.. you may need new set of rings and sleeves.

2). reduce the engine idling speed to minimum as possible ( use screw on Fuel Pump) check for any abnormal Knocking sound . if it is there trouble with bearings

Its always advised to check the calibration of fuel pump when you buy vehicle or engine ( diesel) above 75k kms

All the best

DHABHAR.BEHRAM · 12th February 2009, 11:37

Please do let me know if your MM540 originally came with the XDP4.90 or the XD3P. If XDP4.90, then the cooling system will need to be upgraded to work with the extra power of the XD3P. As the engines are from the same family, mountings are identical but check for engine mounting bracket orientation as there are a lot of dress levels in use. Please post some photographs for detailed reply.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

bigman · 12th February 2009, 13:01

Thanks for replies guys.

Behram Dhabhar, it did have a stock xd3p engine. Sadly no photos yet, I am in England and my neighbour does not appear to be compliant with my requests. I will have to wait till my father goes over in a few weeks.

I was looking at rear lights and came across Land Rover NAS lights which are round. Can anyone suggest if anything similar or better is available in India ? My only concern is that of sufficient mounting space, they are 100mm in diameter. They can be flush mounted quite easily. Also military spec ones (NATO) are available which are meant to be tougher.

harjeev · 13th February 2009, 13:51

Satnam
Congrats on you purchase. As everyone, me too eagerly awaiting for the pics.

On the engine swap if I were you I would be more comfortable spending 18k on refurbishing the older engine as
1. If you change the engine then it would not match the engine number on the registration book and this may/can create problems later on.
2. The 12k engine that you are buying, how can you be sure that that engine is not in the same or a worse condition than the one you already have? These engine can be started even with spending very less money and also consider that the person selling you the 12k engine would also be earning something out of it.
3. If you spend 18-20k on the old XD3P engine, it would definitely be more reliable than the 12k engine you are buying as any faulty parts that there might be, would be replaced with new ones.

I have just written what I would do and you should do what feels right to you. Just my 2 cents
Cheers
Harjeev

Red Liner · 13th February 2009, 14:30

This is pretty interesting... I am at the cross roads of doing a rebuild myself (white smoke + burning eyes)...and I was thinking about the XD3P 2.5 Ltr...will keep my eyes peeled here.

I will agree with Harjeev here...when you do a rebuild you get almost a bone-stock new engine and you will know exactly what you've done to it. The trick is to ensure whoever is doing the re-bore knows what they are doing. If the rebore is done well, then the engine should give you top notch performance for the next 100k kms - provided you take good care of the engine.

But the 2.5 Ltr engine is more refined and offers about 15kgm of torque as opposed to the 12.3 kgm of torque from the XDP 4.90 engine. The DI Turbo would be the best bet. 18 kgm torque at 1440 RPM. Superb.

A rebuild should come to between 20 and 25k. Lets wait to hear what others have to say too. Then I will also make a decision.

9th February 2009, 23:32	#1
bigman Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NA Posts: 1,224 Thanked: 93 Times	MM550 rebuild - new engine ? Some of you may know but I became the owner of a 2001 MM550 last week (army disposal). I had not started a new thread as I do not have any pictures. I encountered the first big decision in the rebuild. The mechanic took the engine out etc and had a good look at it. It is not in very good condition and he says it will cost at least RS18K to get it into running condition (fuel pump etc needs work, head is not in good condition etc etc). However he can get a 2003/4 Bolero XD3P engine which is in excellent working order. The chap want RS12K for it, having studied actuarial science etc my brian tells me it is better (financially) to go for the 2003/4 engine. He says the gearbox/transfer case look fine and they will mate with the new engine without any problems. I will get him to change belts, tensioners etc for peace of mind. I have asked my cousin to contact a place in Punjab where they buy army disposals to check if they have any later MM550 engines with the 5 speed box. So please can anyone point out any negatives of going for the 03/04 Bolero engine ? I know the army version has an oil cooler and a few extra bhp but besides that are there any other major differences ? Thanks in advance. Last edited by bigman : 9th February 2009 at 23:42.
	() Thanks

9th February 2009, 23:42	#2
SirAlec Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: zxc Posts: 3,393 Thanked: 726 Times	WHen you bought! it was not even in working order.? 12k for that engine is a steal. But i guess he will want this engine in exchange. I would recommend you to do and post here the compression test data. So that we can be sure of the condition of your engine. PS: some images please.
	() Thanks

9th February 2009, 23:55	#3
bigman Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NA Posts: 1,224 Thanked: 93 Times	Thanks for your quick reply Alec. Nope not in working order. These army disposals are rarely in working order. Chassis and body are in excellent condition though. The gearbox and transfer case appear to be fine as well. Yes thats with the current engine in exchange but I could pay a bit more and keep it if I want. Are there any negatives to using the newer Bolero XD3P ? Also how much is it for brand spanking new XD3P ? I have asked him to start the 03/04 engine and make sure it is in decent condition etc. I asked my old neighbour to take some pictures but he has not bothered yet. Strange how when he needs help/favours he is willing to do anything, I guess thats human nature. Last edited by bigman : 10th February 2009 at 00:02.
	() Thanks

10th February 2009, 00:22	#4
4x4addict Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 4,483 Thanked: 4,531 Times View My Garage Infractions: 0/1 (5)	I think you should get the Bolero engine if it in good condition. Make sure you remove the oil cooler from the army engine and transfer it to the Bolero engine. These engines are identical except that the army version is tuned output 75 bhp as opposed to 72 pre bsII or 68 for bs II for the Bolero version. I am sure that you can adjust the fuel pump to get the same output as the army version. The army version also has the oil cooler. Other than these two changes, they are the same engines. New one costs upward of 2 Lakhs. GTO did get one for his Classic.
	() Thanks

10th February 2009, 01:27	#5
bigman Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NA Posts: 1,224 Thanked: 93 Times	Thanks for that 4x4addict. I will tell him to take it off and fit to the Bolero engine. Whereabouts is the oil cooler on the MM550 engine ? Last edited by bigman : 10th February 2009 at 01:38.
	() Thanks

10th February 2009, 02:28	#7
bigman Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NA Posts: 1,224 Thanked: 93 Times	Thanks for that. I have passed on the message to keep the oil cooler. Just got to wait to see if the army disposal guy has a working engine with a 5 speed box and transfer case before buying the bolero unit.
	() Thanks

10th February 2009, 11:53	#8
randeep04 BHPian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 629 Thanked: 21 Times View My Garage	Hey Satnam, Congrats on your new purchase. Waiting for some pics brother. keep pestering your neighbor so that he does take the pics and sends them to you. Cheers and all the best !!!!!!!
	() Thanks

10th February 2009, 22:08	#9
bigman Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NA Posts: 1,224 Thanked: 93 Times	Thanks guys. He got the bolero engine delivered (not paid for yet) and he says he is going to start it etc before he commits to buying it. How far gone would an engine have to be before it is beyond use. If the sump & head are ok and the fuel pump can be calibrated then it should be ok ....? Maybe the mechanic is looking for the quickest and cheapest option. I will give him a ring and ask him exactly what is wrong with the original engine. I am going to keep the original engine as well and get a second opinion on it. They were not giving much for it anyway and it can sit in our garage rather instead of a scrap merchants yard.
	() Thanks

11th February 2009, 13:51	#10
TheARUN Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,373 Thanked: 958 Times View My Garage	Its a very good idea to keep the old engine. What I usually do is keep the old parts and then open them up and experiment, put them back again and get the general know-how, anyways it can be sold as scrap later. Its a very good idea to keep the old engine, and open it up and re-assemble it on your own, awesome education at very less fees
	() Thanks

11th February 2009, 21:13	#11
toms_2191 BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kannur/Calicut Posts: 136 Thanked: 40 Times	two things i always check about engines may be it can help you.. 1),Remove breather pipe and lift engine oil dip stick. accelerate the engine to maximum and check any fumes or smoke coming out through both places. hold your hand above breather hole and check the suction power. If smoke is coming or you don't feel any suction power.. you may need new set of rings and sleeves. 2). reduce the engine idling speed to minimum as possible ( use screw on Fuel Pump) check for any abnormal Knocking sound . if it is there trouble with bearings Its always advised to check the calibration of fuel pump when you buy vehicle or engine ( diesel) above 75k kms All the best
	() Thanks

12th February 2009, 11:37	#12
DHABHAR.BEHRAM Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: MUMBAI Posts: 3,060 Thanked: 5,353 Times	Please do let me know if your MM540 originally came with the XDP4.90 or the XD3P. If XDP4.90, then the cooling system will need to be upgraded to work with the extra power of the XD3P. As the engines are from the same family, mountings are identical but check for engine mounting bracket orientation as there are a lot of dress levels in use. Please post some photographs for detailed reply. Best regards, Behram Dhabhar
	() Thanks

12th February 2009, 13:01	#13
bigman Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NA Posts: 1,224 Thanked: 93 Times	Thanks for replies guys. Behram Dhabhar, it did have a stock xd3p engine. Sadly no photos yet, I am in England and my neighbour does not appear to be compliant with my requests. I will have to wait till my father goes over in a few weeks. I was looking at rear lights and came across Land Rover NAS lights which are round. Can anyone suggest if anything similar or better is available in India ? My only concern is that of sufficient mounting space, they are 100mm in diameter. They can be flush mounted quite easily. Also military spec ones (NATO) are available which are meant to be tougher. Last edited by bigman : 12th February 2009 at 13:11.
	() Thanks

13th February 2009, 13:51	#14
harjeev Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 1,899 Thanked: 292 Times View My Garage	Satnam Congrats on you purchase. As everyone, me too eagerly awaiting for the pics. On the engine swap if I were you I would be more comfortable spending 18k on refurbishing the older engine as 1. If you change the engine then it would not match the engine number on the registration book and this may/can create problems later on. 2. The 12k engine that you are buying, how can you be sure that that engine is not in the same or a worse condition than the one you already have? These engine can be started even with spending very less money and also consider that the person selling you the 12k engine would also be earning something out of it. 3. If you spend 18-20k on the old XD3P engine, it would definitely be more reliable than the 12k engine you are buying as any faulty parts that there might be, would be replaced with new ones. I have just written what I would do and you should do what feels right to you. Just my 2 cents Cheers Harjeev
	() Thanks

13th February 2009, 14:30	#15
Red Liner Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 5,209 Thanked: 18,044 Times	This is pretty interesting... I am at the cross roads of doing a rebuild myself (white smoke + burning eyes)...and I was thinking about the XD3P 2.5 Ltr...will keep my eyes peeled here. I will agree with Harjeev here...when you do a rebuild you get almost a bone-stock new engine and you will know exactly what you've done to it. The trick is to ensure whoever is doing the re-bore knows what they are doing. If the rebore is done well, then the engine should give you top notch performance for the next 100k kms - provided you take good care of the engine. But the 2.5 Ltr engine is more refined and offers about 15kgm of torque as opposed to the 12.3 kgm of torque from the XDP 4.90 engine. The DI Turbo would be the best bet. 18 kgm torque at 1440 RPM. Superb. A rebuild should come to between 20 and 25k. Lets wait to hear what others have to say too. Then I will also make a decision.
	() Thanks