Composite Fibre Leaf Springs: Can they be used for off-roading?

khan_sultan · 9th March 2009, 14:18

Joyeb has installed Composite Fiber Leaf Springs (also caled carbon fiber leaf springs) on his jeep that he is building as his 'daily drive'
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-of...-my-mm550.html

One of my friends (swastikviji) has got these on his Gypsy too and one of his friends already has it on his Gypsy.

So we have 3 people who have these on their 4x4's

Now some questions:

How good would they would be on 'off-road' trails? Think mud, gravel, rocks. Think rocks/boulders scraping them and also hitting them at times.

Why does this company ONLY suggest that these be put in the rear? What could be the possible issues if we put them in front also? Is the weight of the engine etc in front an issue?

How will they affect articulation/flex -- if at all? (Very important aspect for me in off-roading)

Product Description:
Composites Leaf Springs for Cars and Vans Manufacturer exporting direct from India

Video Here (Shows this in action on Endeavour, SUMO, SPoA setup): MyVideoWebMail

PS: I am assuming/taking for granted that ride quality will improve 'on-road'. They are available in Bangalore for 11,500 for a set.

vinod_nookala · 9th March 2009, 14:56

hey khan,
I have seen this type of suspension on Scorpio's of M&M dealership in hyderabad. I have no knowledge of this breaking. Infact GM area office vehicle in my building has been fitted with this as a sample. concept wise this looks good.

Why shouldnt this be used in front suspension is still a question?
How does this provide progressive spring rate ?

regards vinod

Sha · 9th March 2009, 14:59

Khan we will test swastikviji Gypsy in all coming OTR's. I witnessed swastikviji Gypsy with 7 people on board and doing mini OTR with no problems. only we need to find out front leaf spring part.

fazalaliadil · 9th March 2009, 16:07

Many answers I too am awaiting, meanwhile a question added to the present ones. Unless they come with varied thickness for different tension grades, there seems no way we can set the tension (like in the regular leaf springs either by moping or adding or removing one leaf spring).
Durability is a major factor to consider.

swastikviji · 9th March 2009, 16:39

Hi all i gone for this leaf springs after checking with my cousin he has fixed them on his toyota qualis it run with that setup almost 80K Kms, khan sir they are making the same leafs for front also because of engine weight my gypsy is not bouncing on front, but rear OE its just a horse ride i am talking about our 91 MG 410,again because of price factor i temporarily considered going for rear only.

kittigadu · 9th March 2009, 16:59

what iam really interested is in the fact that they increase the tyre life to 1 lakh kms. Thats the thing written on the sumo.

1.Tyre life min 1 Lac Kms
2.Suspension overall (probably they meant overhaul) after 1Lac kms
3.Balancing alignment reduced by 75%
4.Feel as a car

Regards,
krishna.

swastikviji · 9th March 2009, 18:31

Mr krishna tyre life of 1 Lakh kms in a sumo? by installing a leaf spring ? if we can get a tyre life of almost double, in todays tyre prices 4 tyres cost approximately 20k means we can pay 11k for the leaf spring and still we save 9k check out weather tyre life are spring life, the dealer told me that he gives warranty of 1 lakh kms are 1 year

kittigadu · 9th March 2009, 20:07

Dear vijay,
Yes. 1Lac Kms is what they have on the sumo.
Thats the reason i was quiet interested. Dont know technically how it helps enhance the tyre life. Iam facing a weired situation where iam not able to take a screen shot of that.
For reference, directly jump to 14:03 on the video timeline. You will find the details there.

Regards,
Krishna.

9th March 2009, 22:14

Does the person fabricate these fibre leaf springs to order? What happens to body roll?

khan_sultan · 10th March 2009, 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by rippergeo

Does the person fabricate these fibre leaf springs to order? What happens to body roll?

I think he does fabricate to order.

From the video, there is no evidence of any body roll -- both in SUMO & Endevaour. And they both were driven quite fast on farmland and turns.

khan_sultan · 11th March 2009, 17:05

I had a long chat with the person who deals with them in Bangalore and here is the summary:

They can fabricate as per your suspension needs
- soft: for regular road usage -- a replacement for the stock leaf setup
- stiff: this is for folks who go rallying etc.

The 'soft' ones are available of the shelf, where as the 'stiff' ones have a lead time of 2 months.

They don't advise to put thesein the front, as for some reason there seems to be a wobble in few vehicles where they have put it. They want to investigate this and fully test it out before recommending it for the front of the vehicle. They don't want to recommend/sell for the front just for the sake of it.
- However, if someone insists they will fabricate as per requirement

These have been tested extensively and for past 4 years these are in use in various vehicles. Absolutely NO complaint so far. He even mentioned that many Ford Endeavors sold by Lathangi get this setup done.

He mentioned that it has enough flex & even somehat similar to wringing of clothes type of flex is possible and the setup won't fail/break

In off-road, even if hits a rock etc, it will not break/fail. At most, if it is hit by a razor sharp thing(maybe a razor sharp rock/edge), it might get bruised/defect -- but that also he said should not happen as per his experience. Even in that case he mentioned free replacement.

I have asked him if he can bring his Gypsy/MM's that have this setup to some of the OTR's that we do. That way we can test/see it in off-road action and then come to some conclusion on how it is shaping up. He is ok with that.

Cheers,

Torqy · 11th March 2009, 17:46

How much does this cost? 11K per pair / per piece as swastikviji mentioned?
If this can soften the harsh ride of a Bolero, i'm interested. Hope the softness doesn't come with excess body roll.

-- Torqy

khan_sultan · 11th March 2009, 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torqy

How much does this cost? 11K per pair / per piece as swastikviji mentioned?

I think it is 11.5K for a pair (both leaf springs for rear). Don;t know if prices are different for different vehicles

Quote:

If this can soften the harsh ride of a Bolero, i'm interested. Hope the softness doesn't come with excess body roll.

Do see the video. There is no body roll -- atleast in SUMO/Endevaour.

Steeroid · 11th March 2009, 18:29

Interesting. I wonder how the Xenon's ride is and whether this might make a diff if the ride isnt good.

Torqy · 11th March 2009, 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by khan_sultan

Do see the video. There is no body roll -- atleast in SUMO/Endevaour.

The video was done on gravel / loose sand. Definitely not the best place to judge body roll.

9th March 2009, 14:18	#1
khan_sultan Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Noida/Bangalore Posts: 4,925 Thanked: 5,853 Times View My Garage	Composite Fibre Leaf Springs: Can they be used for off-roading? Joyeb has installed Composite Fiber Leaf Springs (also caled carbon fiber leaf springs) on his jeep that he is building as his 'daily drive' http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-of...-my-mm550.html One of my friends (swastikviji) has got these on his Gypsy too and one of his friends already has it on his Gypsy. So we have 3 people who have these on their 4x4's Now some questions: How good would they would be on 'off-road' trails? Think mud, gravel, rocks. Think rocks/boulders scraping them and also hitting them at times. Why does this company ONLY suggest that these be put in the rear? What could be the possible issues if we put them in front also? Is the weight of the engine etc in front an issue? How will they affect articulation/flex -- if at all? (Very important aspect for me in off-roading) Product Description: Composites Leaf Springs for Cars and Vans Manufacturer exporting direct from India Video Here (Shows this in action on Endeavour, SUMO, SPoA setup): MyVideoWebMail PS: I am assuming/taking for granted that ride quality will improve 'on-road'. They are available in Bangalore for 11,500 for a set. Last edited by khan_sultan : 9th March 2009 at 14:27.
	(1) Thanks

9th March 2009, 14:56	#2
vinod_nookala Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,737 Thanked: 430 Times View My Garage	hey khan, I have seen this type of suspension on Scorpio's of M&M dealership in hyderabad. I have no knowledge of this breaking. Infact GM area office vehicle in my building has been fitted with this as a sample. concept wise this looks good. Why shouldnt this be used in front suspension is still a question? How does this provide progressive spring rate ? regards vinod
	() Thanks

9th March 2009, 14:59	#3
Sha BHPian Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Canberra Posts: 539 Thanked: 17 Times View My Garage	Khan we will test swastikviji Gypsy in all coming OTR's. I witnessed swastikviji Gypsy with 7 people on board and doing mini OTR with no problems. only we need to find out front leaf spring part.
	() Thanks

9th March 2009, 16:07	#4
fazalaliadil Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 2,022 Thanked: 671 Times View My Garage	Many answers I too am awaiting, meanwhile a question added to the present ones. Unless they come with varied thickness for different tension grades, there seems no way we can set the tension (like in the regular leaf springs either by moping or adding or removing one leaf spring). Durability is a major factor to consider.
	() Thanks

9th March 2009, 16:39	#5
swastikviji BHPian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Bangalore Posts: 417 Thanked: 166 Times View My Garage	Hi all i gone for this leaf springs after checking with my cousin he has fixed them on his toyota qualis it run with that setup almost 80K Kms, khan sir they are making the same leafs for front also because of engine weight my gypsy is not bouncing on front, but rear OE its just a horse ride i am talking about our 91 MG 410,again because of price factor i temporarily considered going for rear only. Attached Thumbnails
	() Thanks

9th March 2009, 16:59	#6
kittigadu BHPian Join Date: May 2008 Location: TS-07 Posts: 244 Thanked: 264 Times	what iam really interested is in the fact that they increase the tyre life to 1 lakh kms. Thats the thing written on the sumo. 1.Tyre life min 1 Lac Kms 2.Suspension overall (probably they meant overhaul) after 1Lac kms 3.Balancing alignment reduced by 75% 4.Feel as a car Regards, krishna.
	() Thanks

9th March 2009, 18:31	#7
swastikviji BHPian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Bangalore Posts: 417 Thanked: 166 Times View My Garage	Mr krishna tyre life of 1 Lakh kms in a sumo? by installing a leaf spring ? if we can get a tyre life of almost double, in todays tyre prices 4 tyres cost approximately 20k means we can pay 11k for the leaf spring and still we save 9k check out weather tyre life are spring life, the dealer told me that he gives warranty of 1 lakh kms are 1 year
	() Thanks

9th March 2009, 20:07	#8
kittigadu BHPian Join Date: May 2008 Location: TS-07 Posts: 244 Thanked: 264 Times	Dear vijay, Yes. 1Lac Kms is what they have on the sumo. Thats the reason i was quiet interested. Dont know technically how it helps enhance the tyre life. Iam facing a weired situation where iam not able to take a screen shot of that. For reference, directly jump to 14:03 on the video timeline. You will find the details there. Regards, Krishna.
	() Thanks

9th March 2009, 22:14	#9
rippergeo Posts: n/a	Does the person fabricate these fibre leaf springs to order? What happens to body roll?
	() Thanks

11th March 2009, 17:05	#11
khan_sultan Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Noida/Bangalore Posts: 4,925 Thanked: 5,853 Times View My Garage	I had a long chat with the person who deals with them in Bangalore and here is the summary: They can fabricate as per your suspension needs soft: for regular road usage -- a replacement for the stock leaf setup stiff: this is for folks who go rallying etc. The 'soft' ones are available of the shelf, where as the 'stiff' ones have a lead time of 2 months. They don't advise to put thesein the front, as for some reason there seems to be a wobble in few vehicles where they have put it. They want to investigate this and fully test it out before recommending it for the front of the vehicle. They don't want to recommend/sell for the front just for the sake of it. However, if someone insists they will fabricate as per requirement These have been tested extensively and for past 4 years these are in use in various vehicles. Absolutely NO complaint so far. He even mentioned that many Ford Endeavors sold by Lathangi get this setup done. He mentioned that it has enough flex & even somehat similar to wringing of clothes type of flex is possible and the setup won't fail/break In off-road, even if hits a rock etc, it will not break/fail. At most, if it is hit by a razor sharp thing(maybe a razor sharp rock/edge), it might get bruised/defect -- but that also he said should not happen as per his experience. Even in that case he mentioned free replacement. I have asked him if he can bring his Gypsy/MM's that have this setup to some of the OTR's that we do. That way we can test/see it in off-road action and then come to some conclusion on how it is shaping up. He is ok with that. Cheers,
	() Thanks

11th March 2009, 17:46	#12
Torqy BHPian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 966 Thanked: 244 Times	How much does this cost? 11K per pair / per piece as swastikviji mentioned? If this can soften the harsh ride of a Bolero, i'm interested. Hope the softness doesn't come with excess body roll. -- Torqy
	() Thanks

11th March 2009, 18:29	#14
Steeroid Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: N.A Posts: 7,046 Thanked: 2,751 Times	Interesting. I wonder how the Xenon's ride is and whether this might make a diff if the ride isnt good.
	() Thanks