Project MG 416 W

MexXxentric · 24th March 2009, 16:32

Hellow Friends,

I am planning to unleash my dream project. - MG 416 W

The target is to install a Baleno's 1.6 liter engine in Gypsy King ,and retaining the 4x4 of course.

Experts, please advise me on the feasibility of the project, expected bottle necks and problems, hardware requirement, legal issues, approximate cost involved, etc etc.

GTO · 24th March 2009, 18:36

These threads would be great places to start:

1. Swapping with a 1.6 engine

2. Gypsy options

Brutus · 24th March 2009, 18:44

Saw an Army rally gypsy same days ago at the Sjoba rally,chandigarh, and it had just this sort of an arrangement. The driver was Capt.Amrinder Brar, and i think he is rated at No.06 in the Indian rally circuits. Also another famous rallyist, Sunny Sidhu is rumoured to have this arrangement in his factory sponsored Gypsy.
There are kits available abroad to mate the 1.6 to the factory gearbox, but since these rally vehicles were basically factory sponsored, it is highly likely that Maruti made their own in-house kits.

Infact, taking about Gypsy motor mods, there is a kit for available to mate the fiat/volks 1.9/1.9td motor to the gypsy gearbox. This is the same motor as was used in the previous generation fiat palios(India's last yr and ealier versions) and also the scoda octivia. If someone's come out with a kit to plant a coal burner where originally an 85Kgs(only) motor was to take command, means that the 1.9Td motor is amongst the lightest diesel motors available. I say this because the Toyota 2CT motor, that people in India generally build into a contraption weights 210kgs.

MexXxentric · 26th March 2009, 13:40

Hi,

I've been googling for the topic and i came across some interesting case-studies of the similar type of conversion done in UK.

The links are

Swapping 1300 cc engine to 1600 cc in my Samurai
this tells about a 1.6 liter ( 8valve ) carb. engine swap. I guess that its a G16a engine.

G16a into a samurai - Suzuki Forums: Suzuki Forum Site

The second link is more informative.

From the above links the challenges in the conversion will be

1. Mating the G.B to the the engine ( with or without using adapter plate? )
2. Which flywheel & clutch plate should i use ( 1.3 Gypsy King's or 1.6 Baleno's)
3. Mounting the engine. What all changes are required in the engine foundation
4. to close the hood due to Height of the engine ( should i go for body lift?)
5. The front axle hitting the Oil pan of the 1.6 engine. ( I am not interested in SOA or similar works)
6. Radiator installation ( as 1.6 is a transverse engine )
7. How to handle the extra weight of the engine?

IronWolf · 26th March 2009, 14:47

There is one Black Gypsy which is in Mumbai. Check the Mumbai OTR posts. It faired quite well at the OTR. Monstrous sound as well.

MexXxentric · 26th March 2009, 15:21

Friends got a 2001 Baleno Lxi (side impact accident vehicle with almost intact engine bay)
can anyone enlighten on the engine specs.?
Google cant help me in this :-(

What all components can be transplanted to Gypsy?

I plan to take the following

Engine with flywheel &starter,
Alternator,
P.S pump,
AC ( atleast compressor)
Fuel filter and Pump.
Brake booster ( will it be an over kill?)
Windscreen washer unit
LPG Kit ( yeah the baleno had LPG kit on it

)
Petrol tank ( to serve as a secondary tank)
Front Seats ( if its ergonomically safe)

Again awaiting your suggestions.

nitrous · 26th March 2009, 16:04

There's one in bangalore as well.

pdev29 · 26th March 2009, 16:28

guys we have got 3-4 MG416 in my group, its a simple and reliable mod.

you will fall in love with the gypsy after this swap.

All you need is gypsy king, if you have gypsy 1.0 then you will have to get the 1.3 gearbox.

there is a pic of black 416 in one of my offroad season thread.. check it out

nitrous · 26th March 2009, 16:32

Are they carburetted or fuel injected, Pdev?

MexXxentric · 26th March 2009, 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdev29

guys we have got 3-4 MG416 in my group, its a simple and reliable mod.

Thanks PdeV, can i have some under the hood pictures or the contact info of the 416's owners? It will help me a lot.

I've outsourced the engine as well as king's G.B ( Ashwar87 outsourced them for me. )

My mechanic is suggesting to go with 1.3's Flywheel in the 1.6 engine so that it will fit inside the King's Gear box. But Iam a bit confused.

Which starter motor should be used? 1.3's or 1.6's ??

ashvar87 · 26th March 2009, 19:43

hi friends,
i just want to add few more doubts with what mexxentric has stated above, reg the clutch plates,is that good to go in for a after market "HIGH PERFORMANCE CLUTCH PLATES".

vishwaschettri · 26th March 2009, 23:09

Can I ask how much the gypsy gearbox cost you?

@ pdev - can you please tell us about the baleno engine swap for gypsy in detail.
1. Does it sits on the stock mounts or new mounts have to fabricate?
2. Does the engine mates directly with gypsy gearbox or does one needs an adapter plate.
3. Does oil sump sits above the differential or its clear? Any other issue of front differential clearance during extreme articulation?
4. What about clutch, flywheel, starter motor?

cheers
vishwas

MexXxentric · 27th March 2009, 12:40

Got the G.B alone for 12k(excluding transportation from chennai)
I wanted the flywheel & 1.3 starter, but couldn't get it. :-(

ashvar87 · 27th March 2009, 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by MexXxentric

Got the G.B alone for 12k(excluding transportation from chennai)
I wanted the flywheel & 1.3 starter, but couldn't get it. :-(

no worries i have one 1.3's starter motor.

Cloud_Chaser · 28th March 2009, 14:00

Out of curiosity I wanna ask the experts, for an Baleno Engine Swap to non MPFI Gypsy does the wiring needs to be changed? what about the ECM?

24th March 2009, 16:32	#1
MexXxentric BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Trivandrum Posts: 248 Thanked: 11 Times	Project MG 416 W Hellow Friends, I am planning to unleash my dream project. - MG 416 W The target is to install a Baleno's 1.6 liter engine in Gypsy King ,and retaining the 4x4 of course. Experts, please advise me on the feasibility of the project, expected bottle necks and problems, hardware requirement, legal issues, approximate cost involved, etc etc.
	() Thanks

24th March 2009, 18:36	#2
GTO Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 70,534 Thanked: 300,738 Times View My Garage	These threads would be great places to start: 1. Swapping with a 1.6 engine 2. Gypsy options
	() Thanks

24th March 2009, 18:44	#3
Brutus BHPian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Chandigarh Posts: 376 Thanked: 69 Times	Saw an Army rally gypsy same days ago at the Sjoba rally,chandigarh, and it had just this sort of an arrangement. The driver was Capt.Amrinder Brar, and i think he is rated at No.06 in the Indian rally circuits. Also another famous rallyist, Sunny Sidhu is rumoured to have this arrangement in his factory sponsored Gypsy. There are kits available abroad to mate the 1.6 to the factory gearbox, but since these rally vehicles were basically factory sponsored, it is highly likely that Maruti made their own in-house kits. Infact, taking about Gypsy motor mods, there is a kit for available to mate the fiat/volks 1.9/1.9td motor to the gypsy gearbox. This is the same motor as was used in the previous generation fiat palios(India's last yr and ealier versions) and also the scoda octivia. If someone's come out with a kit to plant a coal burner where originally an 85Kgs(only) motor was to take command, means that the 1.9Td motor is amongst the lightest diesel motors available. I say this because the Toyota 2CT motor, that people in India generally build into a contraption weights 210kgs.
	() Thanks

26th March 2009, 13:40	#4
MexXxentric BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Trivandrum Posts: 248 Thanked: 11 Times	Some Interesting Links Hi, I've been googling for the topic and i came across some interesting case-studies of the similar type of conversion done in UK. The links are Swapping 1300 cc engine to 1600 cc in my Samurai this tells about a 1.6 liter ( 8valve ) carb. engine swap. I guess that its a G16a engine. G16a into a samurai - Suzuki Forums: Suzuki Forum Site The second link is more informative. From the above links the challenges in the conversion will be 1. Mating the G.B to the the engine ( with or without using adapter plate? ) 2. Which flywheel & clutch plate should i use ( 1.3 Gypsy King's or 1.6 Baleno's) 3. Mounting the engine. What all changes are required in the engine foundation 4. to close the hood due to Height of the engine ( should i go for body lift?) 5. The front axle hitting the Oil pan of the 1.6 engine. ( I am not interested in SOA or similar works) 6. Radiator installation ( as 1.6 is a transverse engine ) 7. How to handle the extra weight of the engine?
	() Thanks

26th March 2009, 14:47	#5
IronWolf Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Benga-loo-ru Posts: 1,569 Thanked: 45 Times View My Garage	There is one Black Gypsy which is in Mumbai. Check the Mumbai OTR posts. It faired quite well at the OTR. Monstrous sound as well.
	() Thanks

26th March 2009, 15:21	#6
MexXxentric BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Trivandrum Posts: 248 Thanked: 11 Times	Specs. needed Friends got a 2001 Baleno Lxi (side impact accident vehicle with almost intact engine bay) can anyone enlighten on the engine specs.? Google cant help me in this :-( What all components can be transplanted to Gypsy? I plan to take the following Engine with flywheel &starter, Alternator, P.S pump, AC ( atleast compressor) Fuel filter and Pump. Brake booster ( will it be an over kill?) Windscreen washer unit LPG Kit ( yeah the baleno had LPG kit on it ) Petrol tank ( to serve as a secondary tank) Front Seats ( if its ergonomically safe) Again awaiting your suggestions.
	() Thanks

26th March 2009, 16:04	#7
nitrous Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: UAE/Lon/Madras Posts: 6,965 Thanked: 325 Times View My Garage	There's one in bangalore as well.
	() Thanks

26th March 2009, 16:28	#8
pdev29 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,039 Thanked: 288 Times View My Garage	guys we have got 3-4 MG416 in my group, its a simple and reliable mod. you will fall in love with the gypsy after this swap. All you need is gypsy king, if you have gypsy 1.0 then you will have to get the 1.3 gearbox. there is a pic of black 416 in one of my offroad season thread.. check it out
	() Thanks

26th March 2009, 16:32	#9
nitrous Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: UAE/Lon/Madras Posts: 6,965 Thanked: 325 Times View My Garage	Are they carburetted or fuel injected, Pdev?
	() Thanks

26th March 2009, 19:43	#11
ashvar87 BHPian Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: krishnagiri Posts: 58 Thanked: 151 Times	hi friends, i just want to add few more doubts with what mexxentric has stated above, reg the clutch plates,is that good to go in for a after market "HIGH PERFORMANCE CLUTCH PLATES".
	() Thanks

26th March 2009, 23:09	#12
vishwaschettri BHPian Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Delhi Posts: 338 Thanked: 438 Times	Can I ask how much the gypsy gearbox cost you? @ pdev - can you please tell us about the baleno engine swap for gypsy in detail. 1. Does it sits on the stock mounts or new mounts have to fabricate? 2. Does the engine mates directly with gypsy gearbox or does one needs an adapter plate. 3. Does oil sump sits above the differential or its clear? Any other issue of front differential clearance during extreme articulation? 4. What about clutch, flywheel, starter motor? cheers vishwas
	() Thanks

27th March 2009, 12:40	#13
MexXxentric BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Trivandrum Posts: 248 Thanked: 11 Times	Got the G.B alone for 12k(excluding transportation from chennai) I wanted the flywheel & 1.3 starter, but couldn't get it. :-(
	() Thanks

28th March 2009, 14:00	#15
Cloud_Chaser BHPian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Mumbai Posts: 204 Thanked: 45 Times	Out of curiosity I wanna ask the experts, for an Baleno Engine Swap to non MPFI Gypsy does the wiring needs to be changed? what about the ECM?
	() Thanks