Do Diff locks compensate for lack of articulation?

Jeepy · 23rd March 2010, 11:33

Just check this pic....

http://www.orkut.co.in/Main#AlbumZoo...=1263971089108

With excellent articulation, diff locks are not really needed ....as per my experience.

Samurai · 23rd March 2010, 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeepy

With excellent articulation, diff locks are not really needed ....as per my experience.

If only one wheel in each axle has traction, how is articulation going to help you?

tsk1979 · 23rd March 2010, 11:56

Exactly what if you are in a slush rut with two left wheels in slush, and 2 on dry ground. Even if your vehicle has the best articulation in the world, you are stuck.

Jeepy · 23rd March 2010, 12:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samurai

If only one wheel in each axle has traction, how is articulation going to help you?

Yes if ur tyres are good enough and if u have better articulation one wheel in each axle will do the job, pl check the snaps in the url mentioned above......

Samurai · 23rd March 2010, 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeepy

Yes if ur tyres are good enough and if u have better articulation one wheel in each axle will do the job, pl check the snaps in the url mentioned above......

You think you can get Arka to agree with this statement?

ex670c · 23rd March 2010, 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeepy

Yes if ur tyres are good enough and if u have better articulation one wheel in each axle will do the job, pl check the snaps in the url mentioned above......

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samurai

You think you can get Arka to agree with this statement?

Hi Sharath,

I partly agree to the statement. This will be true if the tyres are very grippy and there is sufficient weight on the mentioned wheels.

However, in such cases we tend to rev the vehicles (open diffs) resulting in strain and failure of the Tyre/ Steering knuckle/ Axle/ Prop-Shaft.

Regards,

Arka

tsk1979 · 23rd March 2010, 12:26

Well if the tires are grippy, then there is no case of losing traction. The question being asked is that if one tire on each axle loses traction(snow/slush etc.,) will an open diff vehicle move? Well it won't no matter how grippy is the tire retaining traction is. In that case a LSD will help, and diff lock will definitely do the trick.

Samurai · 23rd March 2010, 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by ex670c

Hi Sharath,

I partly agree to the statement. This will be true if the tyres are very grippy and there is sufficient weight on the mentioned wheels.

Arka, I specifically said no traction, that is in spite of grippy tyres or weight on the wheels.

vinod_nookala · 23rd March 2010, 12:45

I did not take the poll because both are not mutually exclusive! Hence you cannot choose only one!

According to me an off roaders basic virtue is to have sufficient articulation, diff locks are an advantage over it.

A way to offset lack of differential locks is by providing articulation, but articulation alone will not take you every where. Diff lock is like feather on the cap. But cap in itself is necessary.

Just a small example where one can get away with articulation without diff locks. However if this trail was slippery, then diff locks would have been required if negotiated without sufficient momentum. Bolero struggled even on hard ground in slow speed to clear this stretch due to insufficient articulation and road tires. Diff locks here would have made it easier for the driver to over come the obstacle in single shot

Jaggu · 23rd March 2010, 12:45

"I would go" for difflock, from a very different angle

To improve articulation it takes a hell lot of work, diff lock in comparison is easier to achieve the results.

Whats the point of articulation when the darn axles cant put the power down to move the vehicle?

ex670c · 23rd March 2010, 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaggu

"I would go" for difflock, from a very different angle To improve articulation it takes a hell lot of work, diff lock in comparison is easier to achieve the results.

Whats the point of articulation when the darn axles cant put the power down to move the vehicle?

Hi Jaggu,

That's hell of a think to say, especially from a JEEPer.

Regards,

Arka

PS - If you think Articulation = SPOA, then you are right.

adc · 23rd March 2010, 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by ex670c

Hi ADC,

Diff-Lock will be needed more with Leaf-Spring, as Solid Axle Coil Spring offers better articulation.

However the Solid Axle Coil Spring suffer from a slight axle wrap under acceleration, which does not happen in Solid Axle Leaf Spring.

Regards,

Arka

Thank much Arka, Another query would be like -

If there is IFS [as Thar], bad articulation and all, a front locker with IFS and LSD/MLD rear with leaf springs - the best possible combination [scenario] with the Thar?

ex670c · 23rd March 2010, 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by adc

If there is IFS [read Thar], bad articulation and all, a front locker with IFS and LSD/MLD rear with leaf springs - the best possible combination with the Thar?

Hi ADC

Sounds like a Force Gurkha to me.

Manufacturers rarely give Front and Rear Diff-Locks on Light 4x4s
i.e 1953 Delahaye VLR
1979 MB G-Wagen
2003 JEEP Wrangler Rubicon

In the 1990s Diff-Locks became the Buzz-Word and everyone (OEM) started fitting one on the Rear Differential.

Auto-Locker and M&M MLD are similar in purpose - Locked in Straight Lines, Opens on Turns.

I don't know of any other manufacturer fitting Auto-Lockers/MLD as OEM.

LSD is OEM since the 1960s for many Car & 4x4 manufacturer.

An LSD/MLD/Auto Locker up front (Diff) can cause serious steering issues, with out a Free-Wheeling Hub so Don't Expect them OEM.

Regards,

Arka

adc · 23rd March 2010, 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by ex670c

Hi ADC

Sounds like a Force Gurkha to me.

Ha ha, mostly but for big torque difference. All the benefits of the Gurkha are lost there, my own inference and could be wrong.

As for Thar - Absolutely there's no way that is coming as OEM, and even what the OEM is and how much - big mystery still .

Anyway, another point is like only with front diff locker and rear with LSD - straight line situation okay, but what happens when making a turn in slippery mud track

But if it is a more or less straight line in ice or mud with width available, with front locked there would be more traction A front locker with rear LSD is a good start - before one gets funds for getting the rear locked?

Jaggu · 23rd March 2010, 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by ex670c

Hi Jaggu,

That's hell of a think to say, especially from a JEEPer.

Regards,

Arka

PS - If you think Articulation = SPOA, then you are right.

Ayoooo! Arka i was speaking without reference to any particular model or make, i thought the question was that???

So if i have a choice of having these 2 options in any of the vehicle, which will i pick up?! and hence the reply.

Hope this clears and you will not chase me in my dreams

View Poll Results: Diff locks or Articulation, what do you choose?
Diff locks - I think they are more important than articulation	23	60.53%
Articulation - With excellent articulation, diff locks are not really needed	15	39.47%
Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll

23rd March 2010, 11:33	#16
Jeepy BHPian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Kottayam Posts: 47 Thanked: 2 Times View My Garage	Just check this pic.... http://www.orkut.co.in/Main#AlbumZoo...=1263971089108 With excellent articulation, diff locks are not really needed ....as per my experience. Last edited by Jaggu : 23rd March 2010 at 12:35. Reason: Back to back post, please EDIT the original post instead while editing within 15 mts. Thanks
	() Thanks

23rd March 2010, 11:56	#18
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,717 Thanked: 22,823 Times View My Garage	Exactly what if you are in a slush rut with two left wheels in slush, and 2 on dry ground. Even if your vehicle has the best articulation in the world, you are stuck.
	() Thanks

23rd March 2010, 12:26	#22
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,717 Thanked: 22,823 Times View My Garage	Well if the tires are grippy, then there is no case of losing traction. The question being asked is that if one tire on each axle loses traction(snow/slush etc.,) will an open diff vehicle move? Well it won't no matter how grippy is the tire retaining traction is. In that case a LSD will help, and diff lock will definitely do the trick.
	() Thanks

23rd March 2010, 12:45	#24
vinod_nookala Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,737 Thanked: 430 Times View My Garage	I did not take the poll because both are not mutually exclusive! Hence you cannot choose only one! According to me an off roaders basic virtue is to have sufficient articulation, diff locks are an advantage over it. A way to offset lack of differential locks is by providing articulation, but articulation alone will not take you every where. Diff lock is like feather on the cap. But cap in itself is necessary. Just a small example where one can get away with articulation without diff locks. However if this trail was slippery, then diff locks would have been required if negotiated without sufficient momentum. Bolero struggled even on hard ground in slow speed to clear this stretch due to insufficient articulation and road tires. Diff locks here would have made it easier for the driver to over come the obstacle in single shot Attached Thumbnails Last edited by vinod_nookala : 23rd March 2010 at 12:47.
	() Thanks

23rd March 2010, 12:45	#25
Jaggu Team-BHP Support Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 20,212 Thanked: 15,892 Times	"I would go" for difflock, from a very different angle To improve articulation it takes a hell lot of work, diff lock in comparison is easier to achieve the results. Whats the point of articulation when the darn axles cant put the power down to move the vehicle?
	() Thanks