[ex670c]

Hi Guys,

Some Basic Information FIP from the Bosch Technical Information VHK2-040 00.

I happened to pick quite a few Technical Information Bulletins from a Paper Scrap Dealer.

Regards,

Arka

PS - If anyone in interested I have VKD-0 42 00 Governors for inline Fuel Injection Pumps, will scan and upload.

[SPIKE ARRESTOR]

Originally Posted by ex670c

I happened to pick quite a few Technical Information Bulletins from a Paper Scrap Dealer.

Hi Arka,

Till now I was thinking, you only get Spare parts from the scrap dealer, I am surprised to see you getting "Technical Information Bulletins" from Paper Scrap Dealers. Probably the guy who threw this away did not realize its true worth, thanks for sharing some useful info!

Spike

[Sudarshan]

Originally Posted by ex670c

I happened to pick quite a few Technical Information Bulletins from a Paper Scrap Dealer.

Me too , 70 % of my books are from this source . carry on

PS - If anyone in interested I have VKD-0 42 00 Governors for inline Fuel Injection Pumps, will scan and upload.

I am ,go on ( I may be having it ,but who knows )

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

Hi Arka,

Till now I was thinking, you only get Spare parts from the scrap dealer, I am surprised to see you getting "Technical Information Bulletins" from Paper Scrap Dealers.
Spike

Hey , tell me you haven't done this, & if you haven't done this then you have missed a lot of fun in life .


It was a time when few good people didn't have enough money ( to buy some new books ) in their pockets but saw lot of dreams ,they just drooled through book shops & exhibitions wondering when they will lay their hands on those new books . They sorted out a way , they happened to be roaming every footpath in the city --in search of those 'raddi walas' , some times they just couldn't wait till those guys put their stuff for sale . they just opened their parcels . This is all done for search of knowledge -I am proud to be among them , one of them .

you have missed a lot Spike

Sudarshan

Edit: I must admit , till this date this is one of my sources for books , I visit those footpaths as & when I get a chance.

[SPIKE ARRESTOR]

Originally Posted by Sudarshan

Hey , tell me you haven't done this, & if you haven't done this then you have missed a lot of fun in life .

you have missed a lot Spike

OT- Rajubhai, you miss them "only" if you don't have them with you. I've collected almost everything which you guys can dream of, and BTW I am only 24*

Spike

[ex670c]

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

Hi Arka,

Till now I was thinking, you only get Spare parts from the scrap dealer, I am surprised to see you getting "Technical Information Bulletins" from Paper Scrap Dealers. Probably the guy who threw this away did not realize its true worth, thanks for sharing some useful info!

Hi Spike,

I had picked up 5-6Kgs worth of Technical Bulletins from Bosch, CAV & Lucas-TVS, in December 2004.

My CJ3B was at the auto electrician's shop, to change the Head-Light Bulbs(Non-Halogen) and Rear Light/Indicator Domes.

Next to this shop was a paper scrap dealer and I noticed the MICO-Bosch Bulletins, on searching I found quite a few of them including a book on Automobile Electrical System printed in 1952, these books belonged to an engineer with TVS.

Regards,

Arka

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by ex670c

PS - If anyone in interested I have VKD-0 42 00 Governors for inline Fuel Injection Pumps, will scan and upload.

Are you kidding!? Though I think governors need a separate thread.

IIRC, the CJ accessory list used to list a governor. Useful for agricultural duties, essential for PTO work. Easy (easier actually) to understand, so maybe you can start with that.

Regards
Sutripta

[headers]

Originally Posted by Sutripta

Considering you are no newbie, I'm confused by your confusion. So I hope I'm addressing the right question. As you know, in a CRDI, metering is not done by the pump, but by the injectors. Here we were discussing the means employed in controlling rail pressure.

Sir, I am a newbie in a lot of things that I dont know. Its good to learn all the time.

As far as my understanding goes, the rail pressure is monitored by the rail pressure sensor.

Maybe you could elaborate better on how the monitoring is done.

[star_aqua]

Originally Posted by Sutripta

That means that the plunger will float off the cam.

Yes, which also mean decreased torque demand from the pump to the engine. increase in overall efficiency.

Originally Posted by headers

BTW, how many stages are there in the CR pumps and what is the difference between Audi / Skoda TDI versus the Common Rail adopted by the others?

Stages? they are associated only the Unit Injector System(VW's PD tech)
and not with common rail as the rail pressure buildup and injections are totally independent tasks.
The Audi/Skoda TDI or PD is nothing but the unit injector system. they are discrete pump system. the injector and the pump both are combined in one unit. the main advantage is the pressure buildup which could not be achieved by the common rail. the pressure buildup is instantaneous unlike in common rail. it can be imagined like a very high pressure inline pump. combining both injector and pump in one single unit made possible to withstand high pressure up to 2200bar and reduced risk as high pressure pipes connecting the pump and injector is eliminated. The unit injectors are electro mechanical. Only the total injection quantity is controlled by the solenoid valve on the pump. the pre injection is mechanical and in the main injection the pressure keeps increasing rapidly. with this system the degree of freedom in controlling the injections is very less. and split injections is not so easy as compared to common rail system. The CR system has the advantage of injecting anytime anywhere when you want. this degree of freedom will allow you to achieve various norms and regulations that are imposed and in future.
BUT unit injectors are simple and safer when compared to common rail.
In common rail split injections are easy to do and the pressure remains constant during the injection period, hence precise metering of injected fuel. The distance between the split injections can be varied easily.

[headers]

Originally Posted by star_aqua

Stages? they are associated only the Unit Injector System(VW's PD tech)
and not with common rail as the rail pressure buildup and injections are totally independent tasks.


The Audi/Skoda TDI or PD is nothing but the unit injector system. they are discrete pump system. the injector and the pump both are combined in one unit. the main advantage is the pressure buildup which could not be achieved by the common rail. the pressure buildup is instantaneous unlike in common rail. it can be imagined like a very high pressure inline pump. combining both injector and pump in one single unit made possible to withstand high pressure up to 2200bar and reduced risk as high pressure pipes connecting the pump and injector is eliminated. The unit injectors are electro mechanical. Only the total injection quantity is controlled by the solenoid valve on the pump. the pre injection is mechanical and in the main injection the pressure keeps increasing rapidly. with this system the degree of freedom in controlling the injections is very less. and split injections is not so easy as compared to common rail system. The CR system has the advantage of injecting anytime anywhere when you want. this degree of freedom will allow you to achieve various norms and regulations that are imposed and in future.

BUT unit injectors are simple and safer when compared to common rail.
In common rail split injections are easy to do and the pressure remains constant during the injection period, hence precise metering of injected fuel. The distance between the split injections can be varied easily.

Thanks for the wonderful explanation. Is this why CR is better accepted than PD tech the world over?

Also is the CR a closed loop circuit or does that depend on the manufacturer?

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by headers

Sir, I am a newbie in a lot of things that I dont know. Its good to learn all the time.

As far as my understanding goes, the rail pressure is monitored by the rail pressure sensor.

Maybe you could elaborate better on how the monitoring is done.

First of all, i'm very uncomfortable with 'sir' in a peer group.

I thought you were asking about input side metering.

Originally Posted by headers

Sir, I am getting confused with your question -

If metering is not on the input side, where will it be?

My understanding is that the electric pulse from the engine ECM triggers the pump to meter a certain quantity of fuel based on a host of other parameters from various sensors.

If metering is not done on input side, where will it be from?

Its fairly easy (though might be expensive) to measure rail pressure directly at the rail itself. Trying to derive it would be less accurate. Given its importance in controlling injection quantities, I don't think there is any other option.

@Star_Aqua
Agreed about the higher efficiencies to be achieved when driving the pump. But somehow, the concept of throttling the input of a positive displacement pump working on an incompressible fluid does not seem right. Esp. considering that there are other solutions available for achieving variable displacement.

Re: VWs switchover from PD to CRDI, I think it was inevitable. Though I remember VWs comments of a few years back that they dont need CR because they know exactly what to do, whereas others need the flexibility of CR because they are still learning.

Regards
Sutripta

[DirtyDan]

Righty, righty. Nice to know we have some real experts in this area. How you get fuel into an internal combustion engine has been a puzzle I have wondered about for some time. An external combustion engine I understand. A steam engine? You just shovel coal in the boiler. If you try shoveling fuel into a diesel you will get strange looks from people and wind up with a mess.

Now for a practical exercise. I have a 2009 MDi3200tc. What can I do to the fuel delivery system to get another 10-20 horsepower out of it?

[headers]

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

Now for a practical exercise. I have a 2009 MDi3200tc. What can I do to the fuel delivery system to get another 10-20 horsepower out of it?

Ken, hi, sell it and buy a THAR CRDe! cos you want 20 horsepower more out of a 2009 MDI3200 TC.

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

I have a 2009 MDi3200tc. What can I do to the fuel delivery system to get another 10-20 horsepower out of it?

Hi,
If we tell you how to get more fuel in, will you tell us how to get it to burn properly?

Maybe Spike can tell us the reasons for the various rpm limits in the MDis.

@Arka: What about the rest of the scans? And a thread on governors.

@Everybody: Can we get back to the nature of combustion in a Diesel, and therefore work out best fuel injection strategies.

Regards
Sutripta

[star_aqua]

Originally Posted by headers

Is this why CR is better accepted than PD tech the world over?

Also is the CR a closed loop circuit or does that depend on the manufacturer?

Both are equally good. it is just like windows and linux. the PD had the advantage of very high pressure and now CR has also managed to achieve the same pressure with the advantages of CRS. hence CRS is preferred. The pump modules which were used in PD is being used in newer CRS. to be specific CP2 and CP4.
Injection system is not OEM specific but there are few preferences a manufacturer can have in terms of low pressure side control or high pressure side control or both simultaneously and solenoid injectors or piezo injectors.

Originally Posted by Sutripta

@Star_Aqua
Agreed about the higher efficiencies to be achieved when driving the pump. But somehow, the concept of throttling the input of a positive displacement pump working on an incompressible fluid does not seem right. Esp. considering that there are other solutions available for achieving variable displacement.

Hi, can you tell about the other solutions available. lets see the advantages over each other.

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

Now for a practical exercise. I have a 2009 MDi3200tc. What can I do to the fuel delivery system to get another 10-20 horsepower out of it?

DD, just tweaking the fuel delivery system would not be suffice. the Air System should also support. or else you will end up converting a BS3 engine to BS2 or BS1

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by star_aqua

Hi, can you tell about the other solutions available. lets see the advantages over each other.

Hi,
Swash plate, variable inclination.

Regards
Sutripta