Team-BHP > 4x4 & Off-Roading > 4x4 Vehicles


Reply
  Search this Thread
107,343 views
Old 26th November 2012, 20:54   #151
Senior - BHPian
 
SPIKE ARRESTOR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,854
Thanked: 1,529 Times
Re: JEEPS of the Charminar offroad club

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankenstein View Post

Kind of heard it shuts of the air supply to the engine and the engine runs on some gases, not sure.

UBS sir can explain the mechanism.
Franky, air is also a gas , would be interesting to know more about this.

On a serious note, please update the photos and share more on this. I hope UBS Sir also chips in.

Spike
SPIKE ARRESTOR is offline  
Old 27th November 2012, 19:13   #152
BHPian
 
Frankenstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bangalore/hyderabad
Posts: 385
Thanked: 350 Times
Re: JEEPS of the Charminar offroad club

It seems the cable from the dash closes two pvc valves, thus closing the engine breathers , so the engine only breathes form the snorkel .
Got to know from the owner of the vehicle.
Frankenstein is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 27th November 2012, 20:42   #153
Senior - BHPian
 
headers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greater Chennai
Posts: 4,667
Thanked: 556 Times
Re: JEEPS of the Charminar offroad club

But I dont see that Jeep having a Snorkel or am i missing something here? What about water over Bonnet level? How does it manage?

Cheers
headers is offline  
Old 27th November 2012, 20:52   #154
BHPian
 
Frankenstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bangalore/hyderabad
Posts: 385
Thanked: 350 Times
Re: JEEPS of the Charminar offroad club

Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
But I dont see that Jeep having a Snorkel or am i missing something here? What about water over Bonnet level? How does it manage?

Cheers
Vikram , the mushroom type cover you see on the air filter is removed and a flexi pipe is connected to the airfilter and let out of the bonnet , the mushroom cover is connected to the top of the pipe to act as a snorkel.

There are 2 breathers the fording system closes, one near the carb and the other near the fuel pump.
Frankenstein is offline  
Old 28th November 2012, 18:51   #155
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pune
Posts: 115
Thanked: 65 Times
Re: JEEPS of the Charminar offroad club

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankenstein View Post
2004 MM550, NGCS
XD3P TURBO WITH Scorpio turbo and scorpio water pump
How do you get an XD3P to run reliably on a turbo? I think the stock engine runs 24:1 compression which is too high for turbo-charging? Head-mods?
vivekjayasheel is offline  
Old 28th November 2012, 20:50   #156
Senior - BHPian
 
headers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greater Chennai
Posts: 4,667
Thanked: 556 Times

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankenstein View Post
Vikram , the mushroom type cover you see on the air filter is removed and a flexi pipe is connected to the airfilter and let out of the bonnet , the mushroom cover is connected to the top of the pipe to act as a snorkel.

There are 2 breathers the fording system closes, one near the carb and the other near the fuel pump.
Could we have the pleasure of seeing them? The flexi pipe let out of the bonnet as well as the breather routing from the carb and fuel pump, the breathers from the GB, Front and rear Differentials

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekjayasheel View Post
How do you get an XD3P to run reliably on a turbo? I think the stock engine runs 24:1 compression which is too high for turbo-charging? Head-mods?
A mild boost would not harm the engine. Infact it gives better efficiency. Most of todays diesel engines in India are mild turbos

Last edited by n_aditya : 28th November 2012 at 20:57. Reason: posts merged.
headers is offline  
Old 28th November 2012, 20:57   #157
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pune
Posts: 115
Thanked: 65 Times
Re: JEEPS of the Charminar offroad club

Yeah but the Thar runs like 17:1 compression unlike the XD3P's 24:1. Also since diesels are compression-ignition engines, doesn't changing the CR effectively change the ignition timing itself? I was under the impression that even a mild boost to an "high-comp, NA-by-design" engine will make it deto badly...

Last edited by vivekjayasheel : 28th November 2012 at 20:59.
vivekjayasheel is offline  
Old 29th November 2012, 09:07   #158
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: MUMBAI
Posts: 3,060
Thanked: 5,346 Times
Re: JEEPS of the Charminar offroad club

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekjayasheel View Post
How do you get an XD3P to run reliably on a turbo? I think the stock engine runs 24:1 compression which is too high for turbo-charging? Head-mods?
Dear Vivekjayasheel - original variant of XD3P engine with turbo was made by Peugeot France. Crankshaft material (metallurgical composition) was completely different to take the additional load. Please do not attempt with production crankshaft. We had tried in the laboratory just to see, it broke like a matchstick.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
DHABHAR.BEHRAM is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 29th November 2012, 10:45   #159
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pune
Posts: 115
Thanked: 65 Times
Re: JEEPS of the Charminar offroad club

Respected sir, I am not attempting anything like this (for that I first have to find a jeep
:-D). I was merely curious about what Frankenstein said in his post. Thanks for chipping in, I had no idea that the French XD3 came with a turbo...
vivekjayasheel is offline  
Old 29th November 2012, 13:18   #160
Senior - BHPian
 
fazalaliadil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 2,022
Thanked: 668 Times
Re: JEEPS of the Charminar offroad club

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Vivekjayasheel - original variant of XD3P engine with turbo was made by Peugeot France. Crankshaft material (metallurgical composition) was completely different to take the additional load. Please do not attempt with production crankshaft. We had tried in the laboratory just to see, it broke like a matchstick.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Sir,

With due respects to your experience, observation and logical explanation. How come shaft on the blue 550 from Hyderabad is still working, one you had seen at MCUBE, this year?
Regards,
fazalaliadil is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 29th November 2012, 14:13   #161
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: MUMBAI
Posts: 3,060
Thanked: 5,346 Times
Re: JEEPS of the Charminar offroad club

Dear Fazal - thanks for asking. In a vehicle, a typical engine gets loaded to about 30% of its capability only. I am talking of failure on the engine dynamometer. By the way, have you ever seen the exhaust manifold of an F4/134 engine glow red hot in any vehicle? It glows red hot during FTP test under full load on the dynamometer. Maybe the blue vehicle engine's crankshaft will give infinite life but that does not change the design loads and parameters. That's why life test for an engine is conducted on the dynamometer.

Best regards,

behram Dhabhar
DHABHAR.BEHRAM is offline   (3) Thanks
Old 29th November 2012, 14:37   #162
Senior - BHPian
 
Shubhendra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Poona
Posts: 1,274
Thanked: 2,236 Times
Re: JEEPS of the Charminar offroad club

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Fazal - thanks for asking. In a vehicle, a typical engine gets loaded to about 30% of its capability only. I am talking of failure on the engine dynamometer. By the way, have you ever seen the exhaust manifold of an F4/134 engine glow red hot in any vehicle? It glows red hot during FTP test under full load on the dynamometer. Maybe the blue vehicle engine's crankshaft will give infinite life but that does not change the design loads and parameters. That's why life test for an engine is conducted on the dynamometer.

Best regards,

behram Dhabhar
Dear Sir,
Should we laymen infer from your technical jargon filled sentence that partial turbo (somewhat similar to turbo fitted in M&M’s DI engine) can be fitted and used successfully in XD3P engine? Of course considering that engine would be loaded to 30% of its capability.

Regards,
Shubhendra Singh
Shubhendra is offline  
Old 29th November 2012, 19:05   #163
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pune
Posts: 115
Thanked: 65 Times
Re: JEEPS of the Charminar offroad club

Dear Frankenstein and Behram-sir, I also have a question but pardon me if it seems stupid...

How do you control the "ignition timing" on a vehicle that has been retro-fitted with a turbo?

Firstly, is it that the turboed XDP is running the same 24:1 CR? If not, how was the CR reduced?

If the CR was not reduced, did you also have to use other Scorpio engine parts (like the injectors and pump and other stuff) to ensure that the diesel injection (and therefore ignition) happens at optimum times in turbo, and non-turbo mode (non turbo means maybe at really low RPMs)?
vivekjayasheel is offline  
Old 29th November 2012, 19:08   #164
BHPian
 
Frankenstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bangalore/hyderabad
Posts: 385
Thanked: 350 Times
Re: JEEPS of the Charminar offroad club

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekjayasheel View Post
How do you get an XD3P to run reliably on a turbo? I think the stock engine runs 24:1 compression which is too high for turbo-charging? Head-mods?
Well its running from the past 20k kms, lots of events , fishing camps, pedal to the metal drives by me.

Both the blue and white 550 are running just fine.
Frankenstein is offline  
Old 29th November 2012, 21:02   #165
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pune
Posts: 115
Thanked: 65 Times
Re: JEEPS of the Charminar offroad club

Well I was asking about the "how" of things, not questioning the reliability. :-) Anyway, this seems like a good way of increasing the XDP's power for people who don't want to go for a transplant...
vivekjayasheel is offline  
Reply

Most Viewed
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks