[Endeavour333]

So I found out about Methods Tuning and IgNite The Garage through Team-BHP and I am really glad I did. Because very soon my Endeavour is going to transform into an off roading beast!

My basic goal is to increase the on road AND off road performance of my car since I'm the kind of guy that loves driving on all kinds of terrain. I could be driving a bunch of friends to Mahabalipuram and all of a sudden a nice off road spot would catch my eye and before anyone knows whats going on I would have taken a left into the shrubbery for a mild but fun off roading session. So far I have limited myself to mild off roading terrain but I would like to get into more serious off roading in the near future. hence the modifications that follow.

I saw Raghav at IgNite the day before yesterday to talk to him about what I could do to my car - performance wise. He is a really nice guy and has a great clean workshop. He took my car for a short test drive and once we got back he suggested a K&N air filter, increased turbo pressure, an oil change to Mobil 1 synthetic oil, and since I told him I like to go off roading, he suggested I get some proper off roading tires for my car as well. He said that the Endeavour has plenty of power but will struggle to put it down in the sand.

Since this car is my daily driver I didn't know whether to get these tires or not because I wasn't sure how they'd affect on road driving comfort. Will post before and after pics of my car here soon. everything except the tires will be done by August 6th.

Some question about the modifications that I would be grateful if more knowledgeable members could answer:
- How will off road tires affect my on road performance? Highway performance?
- Same make and type of tires he has on his Gypsy expect mine will be a little bigger

- Was thinking of getting ride height raised too but he said that it will make the ride stiffer. Is this an advisable modification? If you think I should then by how much?

- Are there any other mods that you would advise me to get?

Thank you all for your help! Will post pics as soon as I can.
Looking forward to bringing my Endeavour on future OTRs in Chennai

[shantanupsingh]

I have a 4x2 endeavor and was thinking of getting it modified too so will be following your posts closely. With regards to raising the height, do you really want to do that? The Endeavor is pretty high as it is. I found the suspension a bit weak on speed bumps and rough terrain compared to the off road vehicles and even other SUVs like the Pajero so you might want to look into that. Of course, I stand to be corrected, I haven't driven the 4x4 model.

Also, I'd like some people with better knowledge to comment - Is AT suitable for off roading generally? Thanks

[Parm]

here are few photos to inspire you.

Ironman has good number of add on products for the Everest/Endeavour, im sure you can get in touch with them to source some of their products.

[lugnut]

Originally Posted by shantanupsingh

Is AT suitable for off roading generally? Thanks

60% mud & sand
40% tarmac

All-Terrain T/A KO | BFGoodrich Tires

[Endeavour333]

Originally Posted by lugnut

60% mud & sand
40% tarmac

All-Terrain T/A KO | BFGoodrich Tires

Originally Posted by lugnut

60% mud & sand
40% tarmac

All-Terrain T/A KO | BFGoodrich Tires

What did you mean by this? 60% mud & sand? 40% Tarmac? I too would like to know what the advantage / disadvantage of Automatic is for Off Roading but I'm not too clear on what you just said there. Would be grateful if you clarify

Also, the tires I have in mind are even more off road focused than the ones you linked! Just hoping it doesnt affect on road comfort too much.

Originally Posted by Parm

here are few photos to inspire you.

Ironman has good number of add on products for the Everest/Endeavour, im sure you can get in touch with them to source some of their products.

Parm thank you for the pics and the info. I will certainly get in touch with him if I need any more parts. The Endeavour is also my daily driver so I dont want it to look too different. Wont be getting the chimney style exhaust for example.

Also, I am still looking for answers to the questions I posted in my original post. Would really love some answers. Thank you all for the information so far!

[lugnut]

Originally Posted by Endeavour333

What did you mean by this? 60% mud & sand? 40% Tarmac? I too would like to know what the advantage / disadvantage of Automatic is for Off Roading but I'm not too clear on what you just said there. Would be grateful if you clarify

Also, the tires I have in mind are even more off road focused than the ones you linked! Just hoping it doesnt affect on road comfort too much.

AT = All-Terrain, no? - - I was referring to the tire usage - meant for 60% off-road use / 40% tarmac (tire usage pattern)

[Endeavour333]

Originally Posted by shantanupsingh

I have a 4x2 endeavor and was thinking of getting it modified too so will be following your posts closely. With regards to raising the height, do you really want to do that? The Endeavor is pretty high as it is. I found the suspension a bit weak on speed bumps and rough terrain compared to the off road vehicles and even other SUVs like the Pajero so you might want to look into that. Of course, I stand to be corrected, I haven't driven the 4x4 model.

The reason I want the ride height raised is because of the long wheel base which means it will bottom out quite easily in certain situations. Yes the front suspension is a bit weak but Raghav (the owner of IgNite garage) is looking into some beefier front shocks for me. Will let you know what he comes up with. The wheels i'm getting will apparently raise the ride height by an inch themselves so that alone might be enough.

[SonnyCK]

Hi, Sonny here. I have a 4x4 Endeavour, 2004 model. Good to see a fellow Endeavour owner interested in off-roading. Hope we can meetup sometime!

Originally Posted by Endeavour333

Parm thank you for the pics and the info. I will certainly get in touch with him if I need any more parts. The Endeavour is also my daily driver so I dont want it to look too different. Wont be getting the chimney style exhaust for example.

Also, I am still looking for answers to the questions I posted in my original post. Would really love some answers. Thank you all for the information so far!

First of all, its not a chimney style exhaust, but a snorkel intake. Helps 4x4s wade through deep water.

Now lets try to answer your questions:

1. Since this will be your car for daily use, expect a good drop in mileage figures with an off-road tyre. Just reducing your tyre pressure can give you very good levels of grip, and when you get back on the road, just fill the air up.

2. Increase in ride height will make your ride stiff and most probably make your car unstable, because of the increased center of gravity. You can maybe think of something like a TIEN suspension for varying stiffness settings depending on your requirement.

3. Mods? Go for a tuning box like the ones from Pete's or, I faintly remember Red Rooster Performance also mentioning a tuning box for the Endeavour.
You can add more mods in a step by step process!

Hope it helped!

[shantanupsingh]

Originally Posted by lugnut

AT = All-Terrain, no? - - I was referring to the tire usage - meant for 60% off-road use / 40% tarmac (tire usage pattern)

I meant Automatic Transmission actually. And plus, I quite enjoy the extra rev and torque the Endeavour gives in Manual, is it the same for the Automatic as well? Any inputs Endeavour333?

[Endeavour333]

Originally Posted by SonnyCK

Hi, Sonny here. I have a 4x4 Endeavour, 2004 model. Good to see a fellow Endeavour owner interested in off-roading. Hope we can meetup sometime!



First of all, its not a chimney style exhaust, but a snorkel intake. Helps 4x4s wade through deep water.

Now lets try to answer your questions:

1. Since this will be your car for daily use, expect a good drop in mileage figures with an off-road tyre. Just reducing your tyre pressure can give you very good levels of grip, and when you get back on the road, just fill the air up.

2. Increase in ride height will make your ride stiff and most probably make your car unstable, because of the increased center of gravity. You can maybe think of something like a TIEN suspension for varying stiffness settings depending on your requirement.

3. Mods? Go for a tuning box like the ones from Pete's or, I faintly remember Red Rooster Performance also mentioning a tuning box for the Endeavour.
You can add more mods in a step by step process!

Hope it helped!

Hi Sonny I really appreciate you answering my questions! Also, thanks for that info about the Intake. I really thought it was a raised exhaust to prevent water getting into it. Intake makes sense too. Quite an embarrassing blunder on an off road forum. lol.

With regard to the tires maybe I should go for AT tires instead of full off road tires?

I asked the Garage owner Raghav if he could tune my ECU but he said that it was locked on the Endeavour and fiesta? Will the tuning box enable you to tune the ECU even if it is locked? Maybe it is locked just for the new version of the Endeavour?

[Endeavour333]

Originally Posted by shantanupsingh

I meant Automatic Transmission actually. And plus, I quite enjoy the extra rev and torque the Endeavour gives in Manual, is it the same for the Automatic as well? Any inputs Endeavour333?

The Automatic is definitely not as Peaky in its torque delivery as the manual. I have owned 2 manual Endeavours before my current Automatic. So trust me when I say that. Part of the reason I wanted some extra power was because I missed that torque burst of the manual I had previously (it had also been modified foe extra power).

So I investigated this behavior of the Automatic further and found out that the smoother torque delivery is due to a Dual Mass Flywheel in the Automatic. The sole purpose of the dual mass flywheel is to smoothen torque delivery. I think its used mainly in Automatics, not sure.

On a video review of the Everest the Ford Representative said that the Dual mass flywheel smoothens the torque delivery but in this video it says it is for damping the engine's torsional vibrations. Not sure which is correct. They might mean the same thing too. See this video:

‪ZF zms dual mass flywheel for passanger cars‬‏ - YouTube

[SonnyCK]

Originally Posted by Endeavour333

Hi Sonny I really appreciate you answering my questions! Also, thanks for that info about the Intake. I really thought it was a raised exhaust to prevent water getting into it. Intake makes sense too. Quite an embarrassing blunder on an off road forum. lol.

With regard to the tires maybe I should go for AT tires instead of full off road tires?

I asked the Garage owner Raghav if he could tune my ECU but he said that it was locked on the Endeavour and fiesta? Will the tuning box enable you to tune the ECU even if it is locked? Maybe it is locked just for the new version of the Endeavour?

Hey it happens!

Yea AT should do fine i guess, but I must tell you I haven't used them anytime before.

Please check with Red Rooster or with Pete's. As far as I know, its my model, 2004, that cannot be tuned, but yours, the new model, can.

[SonnyCK]

Originally Posted by Endeavour333

The Automatic is definitely not as Peaky in its torque delivery as the manual. I have owned 2 manual Endeavours before my current Automatic. So trust me when I say that. Part of the reason I wanted some extra power was because I missed that torque burst of the manual I had previously (it had also been modified foe extra power).

So I investigated this behavior of the Automatic further and found out that the smoother torque delivery is due to a Dual Mass Flywheel in the Automatic. The sole purpose of the dual mass flywheel is to smoothen torque delivery. I think its used mainly in Automatics, not sure.

On a video review of the Everest the Ford Representative said that the Dual mass flywheel smoothens the torque delivery but in this video it says it is for damping the engine's torsional vibrations. Not sure which is correct. They might mean the same thing too. See this video:
‪ZF zms dual mass flywheel for passanger cars‬‏ - YouTube

Correct me if I'm wrong but, doesn't this type of clutches automatically disengage when going down hills? Faintly remember reading this somewhere on T'bhp!

[Endeavour333]

Originally Posted by SonnyCK

Correct me if I'm wrong but, doesn't this type of clutches automatically disengage when going down hills? Faintly remember reading this somewhere on T'bhp!

Yup you're right Sonny. The clutch doesnt just disengage when going downhill though, it disengages anytime my foot is off the accelerator. So it is possible to save some fuel by just coasting down streets with only initial acceleration. Feels like its on neutral every time I take my foot off the accelerator. As a result the brake pads suffer additional wear i'm afraid. While going downhill though, I can select gears 3 to 1 to provide engine breaking. Works surprisingly well actually. In these gears even if I let go of the accelerator the clutch is still engaged and engine braking is still taking place. For really steep downhills I would do the same thing except have 4L mode engaged.

With regard to the ECU tuning, could you please give some more details on Red Rooster and Pete's? Like where they are located / website. Thanks a lot.

Apart from that, I'm still not sure I should spend a load on 5 off road tires / All terrain tires / Just keep my present tires. Advice would be greatly appreciated!

[.anshuman]

Originally Posted by Endeavour333

The Automatic is definitely not as Peaky in its torque delivery as the manual. I have owned 2 manual Endeavours before my current Automatic. So trust me when I say that. Part of the reason I wanted some extra power was because I missed that torque burst of the manual I had previously (it had also been modified foe extra power).

So I investigated this behavior of the Automatic further and found out that the smoother torque delivery is due to a Dual Mass Flywheel in the Automatic. The sole purpose of the dual mass flywheel is to smoothen torque delivery. I think its used mainly in Automatics, not sure.

On a video review of the Everest the Ford Representative said that the Dual mass flywheel smoothens the torque delivery but in this video it says it is for damping the engine's torsional vibrations. Not sure which is correct. They might mean the same thing too. See this video:

It's the torque convertor in the Automatic Transmission which makes the power delivered to wheels smoother, since the Torque Convertor masks the Turbo Lag you won't feel a sudden kick as soon as the lag ends and Torque wave arrives.