[Moody]

Originally Posted by cool_dube

Moody - I had absolutely no intention to discourage or de-moralize you. I believe in one-life-live-it mantra and if you do too, just go for it A good middle-path is to get hold of a pre-owned Gypsy and drive it around for some time. This way, even if you decide to sell it off (after the initial excitement wears off, as someone said), you will not lose much since a Gypsy always commands good resale. If you end up liking it and willing to spend on a new one, you will still be able to do so but after having tested the waters.

Hope this helps...

Hey cool_dube,

Don't feel responsible for demoralizing me. I had all those concerns you and the others mentioned in the back of my head. Coming from other more knowledgeable sources gave those thoughts credibility and hence the dampner. But I like your suggestions of getting a pre-owned one and try to live with first. I'll keep an eye on the classified section.

Cheers!

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by Captain Haddock

Really harsh ride in the backside, but at the front it's not that bad. If you travel alone or with one passenger only, it's ok.

Handling is ok at lower speeds but never drive a Gypsy around corners at high speeds as they can roll over. In the city it's good enough though, speeds are on the lower side.

Fuel average is poor and can range between 5-12 KM/litre depending on traffic.


Is the gypsy an option-It can be a life style vehicle if the poor averages and turning radius can be tolerated.

I still use my bought new in 2009 soft top and while I agree with most of your comments, setting the record straight here with respect to the above:

The harsh ride improves whenever the car is fully loaded at the rear - the legal limit is 6 people there, but the ride is a lot better with even 4 full sized adults in the rear. When not so loaded, it is a tough ride even for the front pax!

It isn't a high speed vehicle, and speeds of above 110 kmph or so feel unsafe and must be so. With that respected there is no risk of it toppling. Don't go into turns as you would with a sedan though, something that equally applies to SUVs.

I consistently get 8-10 kmpl in Pune and 12 kmpl on the highway. Average consumption isn't the deal breaker. And it is a very liberating car to drive in city traffic because I don't much care if it gets a dent, which means other people tend to stay away from that driving style. Ironically, I haven't picked up a single dent in 6 years!

I agree though that it isn't a vehicle to be bought if it will be the only one in the family. The big issues are the ride quality and lack of AC - I haven't done the AC thing because I do not want to lose reliability.

And I also agree that while lack of power steering isn't a problem, the Gypsy has an atrociously bad turning circle.

But what it does well, few other cars can do at its price - capital and running costs.

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

I still use my bought new in 2009 soft top and while I agree with most of your comments

Agree with your points, Sawyer! Fact of the matter is, there is no "one size fits all" here - when it comes to "cult" items like Jeeps or Gypsys, it is the heart that takes over rather than the mind, and the rest becomes history I, for one, was not at all convinced to spend close to 8 lac on a bare-bone vehicle. Maybe the me from 10 years back, with no family obligations, would have thought otherwise, but such is life

Moody - to re-iterate, go ahead with a used Gypsy to test the waters and then take the plunge in case you are comfortable. After driving my Gypsy almost daily for the last month or so, I am congratulating myself for not buying a new one

On a side note, drove my Alto to work after 4 weeks of driving to work in my Gypsy and the Alto felt no lesser than a luxury car

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by Moody

Dilemma: So my question to all you Gypsy lovers is that am I overlooking something which would make the Gypsy absolutely unfit for my case. Please be the devils advocate for me, my heart is growing too powerful over my head. I would appreciate any inputs from you guys.

Disclaimer: I have no previous experience with any Jeeps/4x4 so please correct any of my presumptions about them. My experience with cars is limited to Mazda 3; BMW 3 series convertible(In US), WagonR, VW Vento (India)

I've driven a few Gypsies, hardtop, soft-top, and even four-door altered body, both here in Himachal, and in Mizoram where my father-in-law owned one (also have driven his current Wagon-R Stingray quite extensively there). My brother had a Mazda 3 (wagon), and a longtime U.S.-based friend / former college roomie is a high-level BMW tech who's owned a whole slew of 3-series (besides an M5 - and had a 735i myself). So though my tastes and their progression/regression may not be typical, I might have a pertinent perspective, at least.

I also don't think it needs to be a simple head vs. heart thing. If someone wants a Gypsy because they want the tough image, and inside they're really a mouse with no intention of ever really utilizing the thing, then it's almost a kind of dishonesty that will not ultimately satisfy. If on the other hand someone "downgrades" from a posh European luxury sedan to a strong, spartan little 4x4 because they are feeling a decreasing desire for pampering and advanced technology, and because they can value the Maruti for its actual merits and how it fits into a proposed lifestyle (a lot of people worldwide are getting into a mindset of back-to-basics "simplification" these days), then it can be a good, practical choice with even LESS compromises than the alternatives. In short, this comes down to the really important, ALL-important question of what one truly values in life. With that in view, nobody (oneself included) can really tell you what kind of car to buy without really understanding the core motivations.

I think others have outlined pretty well most Gypsy pros and cons, but I've wondered if many/most of the con's could be resolved with minor mods. To add my two paise:

Gypsies have become a HUGE seller up here around Manali the past couple years, far surpassing sales of the Thar-DI/Crd, and everyone who buys them does seem to drive them happily on a daily basis, many being modified with larger tyres, snorkels, etc. Of course, speeds are not too high here, and there's generally no need of A/C. Compared to other rather rudimentary 4x4 vehicle options (Bolero LX, or even our old Marshal):

1. Indeed ridiculous that the turning radius should be even more than our Marshal (a much larger vehicle), especially when the Gypsy has CV-joint front axles (vs. the u-joints of the M&M's) and theoretically are capable of greater shaft angles. I keep wondering if some modification (longer arm on the steering gear, for example, or maybe even a simple adjustment of the steering stops?) could rectify this, as with stock tyres there seems some leeway re: leaf-spring clearance. Shorter-wheelbase U.S.-market Suzuki Samurai's (a cousin was once a salesman and sometimes offroader) were considered to be highly maneuverable with good turning radius, so not sure of the problem here.

2. Road handling and feel of the controls, and even seating position, versus our Marshal, feels decidedly much more car-like (I do drive some small cars up here, too - Alto, Zen, i10, M800, etc). Really depends on how much you need to be coddled. Not much sound insulation, but much smoother and maybe even quieter than most of the the M&M diesel options.

3. Ride quality universally considered harsh, and same for the Thar DI / Bolero LX 4x4 / Camper. BUT the (heavier) 4-door hardtop Gypsy I've driven was surprisingly plush (as is a standard model with 6-8 adults aboard), so it really comes down to an issue of vehicle weight vs. spring rates. Our Marshal's ride was also excessively harsh before removing a couple leafs from the spring packs and re-arching the remaining ones; I can see no reason this couldn't be done with the Gypsy with equally favorable results. This is not rocket science. Incidentally, the Wagon-R (Stingray) ride is rather firm itself, and I've driven both on the same roads. Something can be done here. No, it's not going to handle/ride like a 3-series, but it should be possible to make it much more than merely tolerable. It's got live axles, but they're a lot lighter weight units than on the M&M's, and should be pretty easy to keep controlled even with softer springing.

4. Interior is spartan but functional, and stock buckets reasonably comfy and form-fitting in my view; space and packaging is actually quite good for a car with externally quite compact dimensions (in account, largely, of the short hood). Can't sit three across in a front-facing rear seat, but you CAN put that seat quite forward from its usual position and still have decent legroom and a LOT of luggage room in back. The Bolero's middle/rear seat room is pathetic considering the car's size, and the Marshal is even worse (long hood originally designed with inline-six-cylinder engines in mind).

5. Fuel average is a lot better on the MPFI engines than on the old carb models, with more power to boot. One friend here is claiming 14 in daily use (Rohtang and back). That sounds optimistic to me, but 12, at least, should be possible, which is as good as my neighbor's well-kept i10 is getting up here. Low-end torque is lacking, especially compared to the M&M DI's, but no worse than the Crd/mHawk's, and much more linear. And moreover, it's an engine that doesn't mind being revved high, being quite smooth (smoother than the Wagon-R Stingray). Like any car, have to adjust driving habits to the mechanical design a bit.

Think a lot of this really comes down to one's expectations. To me, a hardtop Gypsy with an A/C conversion, softened springs (not at all costly, if you can find someone to do it) and maybe some mod for the turning radius would be a fully feasible do-everything sort of vehicle for city/hill/light highway use. Simple, rugged, and reliable, with reasonable levels of passenger comfort, a car you could drive all day and easily carry enough stuff in for long weekends / holidays.

I do not pretend to represent the opinions of the majority, however.

-Eric

[dhanushs]

Hi Eric, I agree with almost all the points. Let me also add one more: Unlike the Mahindras, the Gypsys are also car like to maintain. Parts dont keep falling off.

Originally Posted by ringoism

... especially when the Gypsy has CV-joint front axles (vs. the u-joints of the M&M's) and theoretically are capable of greater shaft angles...

IIRC the Gypsy too has u-joints. Closed Knuckle.

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by dhanushs

Hi Eric, I agree with almost all the points. Let me also add one more: Unlike the Mahindras, the Gypsys are also car like to maintain. Parts dont keep falling off.

That is a very true and quite hilarious plus point; Though one friend with an elderly ex-taxi Gypsy (which I had the displeasure of working on quite frequently) has often felt pains equaling our own. Which goes to show that they are not completely immune to the basic laws of science...

Originally Posted by dhanushs

IIRC the Gypsy too has u-joints. Closed Knuckle.

Ahhh, maybe that's the issue. Japanese/U.S.-market Suzuki Samurai's (almost) definitely had CV's. I wonder what it would take to convert...

-
Eric

[Moody]

Originally Posted by ringoism

I also don't think it needs to be a simple head vs. heart thing. If someone wants a Gypsy because they want the tough image, and inside they're really a mouse with no intention of ever really utilizing the thing, then it's almost a kind of dishonesty that will not ultimately satisfy. If on the other hand someone "downgrades" from a posh European luxury sedan to a strong, spartan little 4x4 because they are feeling a decreasing desire for pampering and advanced technology, and because they can value the Maruti for its actual merits and how it fits into a proposed lifestyle (a lot of people worldwide are getting into a mindset of back-to-basics "simplification" these days), then it can be a good, practical choice with even LESS compromises than the alternatives. In short, this comes down to the really important, ALL-important question of what one truly values in life. With that in view, nobody (oneself included) can really tell you what kind of car to buy without really understanding the core motivations.

Beautifully put Eric. After having been exposed to a lot of amazing things in the past couple of years I have observed my tastes move towards more minimalistic things not only in my rides but in almost everything in life. The biggest reason holding me back is that I can buy only one vehicle at this time. Somewhere down I feel not justified to put my parents (both retired) and my wife through some tough rides for my inclinations. I am very sure about getting a Gypsy at some point but from what I have heard in this thread, it might not be a good proposition as your only drive.

[im_srini]

Just wish the Jimny was offered in India.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ6TMVi9bXI

Especially this Brazilian version, which looks very cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHZvfwnlq2I

Would make a perfect commuter for the "roads" of Bengaluru...
Sigh...
.

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by Moody

The biggest reason holding me back is that I can buy only one vehicle at this time. Somewhere down I feel not justified to put my parents (both retired) and my wife through some tough rides for my inclinations.

Very right reasoning there, and good to feel the way you do.

In the context of a life sacrificially lived, the greatest commandment, He said, is to LOVE...

My own act of love was in adding a 4-wheeler to the family; my wife had ridden pillion on the bike, even while fully pregnant, without much complaint, but by the time our son was a year old, it was becoming increasingly uncomfortable / impractical, especially in terms of all-season transportation.

The Marshal isn't exactly the first car that comes to mind when one thinks of comfort, but at least it has a roof! And I'm fortunate to have a partner who, upon once seeing a Jaguar on the expressway, responded with, "hamara Jeep sab se achcha hai". Her father drives a Sumo, and mine, at 72 years old, after more than a decade with a rigid-axle 4x4 Toyota HiLux crewcab, is now behind the wheel of another 4x4 pickup, the VW Amarok. Think it's safe to say I'm in a unique situation here, with loved ones not requiring much pampering... and so I need to find other ways to love...

-Eric

[Bump-Stop]

A hard top mpfi can be suitably "cushioned" inside. But what you would get off the showroom floor would be a basic bare bones vehicle.However, It is important to note here that you need to drive a few good examples to have an idea if both you , your family and the gypsy are basically compatible .

Practically speaking, and having owned one for the past few years, what you and your passengers would find most inconvenient is getting in and out of the rear seats in the standard 2 door, perhaps closely followed by lack of air-conditioning ( but the a/c issue can be addressed as others have mentioned). Others like bumpy ride etc. are highly a matter of what you're used to and can be mitigated to a large extent.....if the roads give you a bumpy ride just drive slower!

After having gone through the advice of people who have lived with one take an informed decision. Have you thought of looking up a new breed of compact SUVs the market has to offer?

FYI attached a pic of my 2 yr old sleeping peacefully at the back during a family trip from Assam to Bhutan and back....and all this through quite a few bumpy roads and with no air conditioning....but you might call me crazy too!!

[shyamkrish]

Hi Friends,

I had posted a question on this thread a couple of months back about buying a new Gypsy for my farmhouse in Kodaikanal. I already have a Cedia sports that i use for regular driving. My family wasn't too keen about buying the Gypsy as the Cedia itself poses an issue due to lack of service centres and parts (though its a brilliant car!). And it would be insane to add another extinct vehicle to my garage

But i proved myself insane and went ahead and booked a Gypsy today ! I don't know why, but for every negative and don't buy comment that i heard about the Gypsy (No PS, Bad suspension , No AC, No spares etc) , my excitement got the better of me.

And so the waiting starts ...

[sourabhzen]

Originally Posted by shyamkrish

Hi Friends,

I had posted a question on this thread a couple of months back about buying a new Gypsy for my farmhouse in Kodaikanal. I already have a Cedia sports that i use for regular driving. My family wasn't too keen about buying the Gypsy as the Cedia itself poses an issue due to lack of service centres and parts (though its a brilliant car!). And it would be insane to add another extinct vehicle to my garage

But i proved myself insane and went ahead and booked a Gypsy today ! I don't know why, but for every negative and don't buy comment that i heard about the Gypsy (No PS, Bad suspension , No AC, No spares etc) , my excitement got the better of me.

And so the waiting starts ...

Congratulations and best wishes for the new drive!

Gypsy is no Cedia for sure. For one, it is very well in production and secondly, Maruti will keep supporting you at least after six-seven years of phasing out and thet seems to be a distant reality. I always wanted one but, as you mentioned, lack of PS and AC kept me away.

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by shyamkrish

But i proved myself insane and went ahead and booked a Gypsy today

Congratulations Shyam! You will not regret your purchase, especially given the fact that it will be a purpose-bought vehicle to be used for your farmhouse trips. Agreed that it lacks basic creature comforts like PS and A/C, so it might not be the best choice to lug your family around. But then, a Gypsy is not meant to be a family car - it does what it is supposed to do and does it like no other car! All the best and have fun! And yes, do not worry about spare parts et al - there are too many Gypsies out there for Maruti to stop supporting it in terms of service and spares. Do not even compare it with Cedia from that aspect.

BTW, how much did it cost you on-road?

P.S. I own a '98 model Gypsy King (carb) and it is my daily drive to work.

[shyamkrish]

BTW, how much did it cost you on-road?

Thanks Cool_dube & Sourabhzen, i really need these words of encouragement as i will be going 15 years back in terms of driving and have to switch between the Cedia and the Gypsy, which i believe will be my biggest challenge !

The Gypsy is 7.6 OTR in Madurai ! Its now available only in white.

Also, since iam new to 4WD, how easy is it to engage it in the Gypsy? Is there a good thread that describes how to use 4WD in the Gypsy?

Thanks
Shyam

[Desmosedici]

Originally Posted by shyamkrish

Also, since iam new to 4WD, how easy is it to engage it in the Gypsy? Is there a good thread that describes how to use 4WD in the Gypsy?

Thanks
Shyam

Congrats Buddy. One of the most simplistic vehicles and boringly reliable.

Engaging the 4WD is very easy. The positions are printed on top of the 4WD gear knob. Press clutch and engage.

2H - 2 Wheel Drive - On Road driving
4H -4WD High Ratio - Can be used at slower speeds on slippery surface
N - Neutral - You totally disengage the gearbox (including the main gearbox)
4L - 4WD Low ratio - Should be used when you really need all the torque to come out of an extreme situation.

Trust this helps. This is just a basic explanation. Experts can provide much more meaningful explanation.