[Sawyer]

As a general comment: it is very hard to break or otherwise damage a Gypsy outside of an accident, it is a very robust car.

There are only 2 exceptions to this that I know of
1. Using 4wd on tarmac will do the trick
2. The clutch is on the weaker side and can start smelling and then burn up if you slip it too much. Get as quickly as possible into the correct gear for the road and don't ride the clutch pedal to compensate for being in the wrong gear, keep your left foot anywhere other than on the pedal.

[shyamkrish]

alright then , this is a test for the Gypsy. Let me try this without switching to 4WD and see if it can clear it. I had a petrol Indica which could do it with some effort and on full throttle on the 2nd Gear. The Indica was a 1400CC Petrol.

[Captain Haddock]

Using Gypsy's 4 Wheel drive on paved roads can cause gearbox failure. When I used to drive the gypsy in town I was told by the management to disconnect the 4WD at a local garage.

The 4WD is used to maintain traction and not to increase torque. The 4WD is specifically designed for sand,snow or mud.

As far as steep gradients are concerned the engine has to be given ample gas to climb as the the torque is lesser than diesel powered Jeeps. But the first gear is very short and has good torque to climb most gradients, just keep the gas going. I am sure that the Gypsy will climb the above mentioned incline.

I am not sure about the newer gypsies but the older ones had a weak handbrake and a fully loaded vehicle cannot be held against that alone on steep inclines. The gypsy's clutch is very strong and just a gentle release can keep the car from rolling back.

[Sawyer]

My experience is exactly the opposite on my 2009 car. The handbrake works fine, if correctly set, but it is very easy to smell the clutch cooking if it is slipped for even a short time to get going uphill, or to use it to keep the car from rolling back. Cook it for too long and it will fail.

[Captain Haddock]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

My experience is exactly the opposite on my 2009 car. The handbrake works fine, if correctly set, but it is very easy to smell the clutch cooking if it is slipped for even a short time to get going uphill, or to use it to keep the car from rolling back. Cook it for too long and it will fail.

I think the newer Gypsies have good hand brakes but the one on the carb 96 model was very unreliable and the cable was prone to failure and on inclines used the clutch extensively due to the heavy traffic. A mm of roll back in Kochi means hitting another car so it was half clutch and accelerator all the way especially on signals and heavy inclines. I know that it will kill the clutch in most vehicles and the gypsy is no exception but I think it took the attrition well enough and cannot be considered as a weakness. The durability from my experience is on par with most modern cars.

The release of the clutch was enough to move the car even from small inclines though the car is petrol powered, it was a big boon in traffic, I was a novice at that point and this feature really helped me.

[shyamkrish]

One thing i noticed in the Gypsy handbrake is, it doesnt have a large pullback unlike the Cedia or any other sedan. So iam not sure how effective it will be. You cant move it all the way back but just an inch or a bit more. The question is, is that effective enough in steep gradients

[Sawyer]

Umm...the clutch actually needs to be stronger than it is in other cars but it isn't. A weakness therefore when it has to cope with the extra torque it has to put through in low range in off road situations, allied to the need to keep the engine rpm higher than it is necessary in a diesel. This latter need creates more opportunity for the unwary to slip the clutch to not let road speeds rise to those that are too high for the situation, unlike in the case of diesels that can chug along at low engine rpm/low road speeds without touching the clutch.

Most people that use the car off road have learnt the skill of driving the vehicle without using the clutch at all except when changing gears. It was almost my first lesson in off roading in the car. Correctly used, it isn't a problem. And coping with city traffic and negotiating climbs in 4WD low are two very different things in terms of the load on the clutch when it is slipping.

[Captain Haddock]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

Umm...the clutch actually needs to be stronger than it is in other cars but it isn't. A weakness therefore when it has to cope with the extra torque it has to put through in low range in off road situations, allied to the need to keep the engine rpm higher than it is necessary in a diesel. This latter need creates more opportunity for the unwary to slip the clutch to not let road speeds rise to those that are too high for the situation, unlike in the case of diesels that can chug along at low engine rpm/low road speeds without touching the clutch.

Most people that use the car off road have learnt the skill of driving the vehicle without using the clutch at all except when changing gears. It was almost my first lesson in off roading in the car. Correctly used, it isn't a problem. And coping with city traffic and negotiating climbs in 4WD low are two very different things in terms of the load on the clutch when it is slipping.

The gypsy's clutch even if released a tiny fraction gives ample power to drive and it makes the car easy to drive in heavy traffic. The clutch may burn out eventually due to this habit, but is it worse than the swifts and ritz out there ?

From my experience the gypsy I used was never serviced regularly and the only work we did was changing the fluids, still It did not have any issues with the clutch.

I must say I don't have a clue about off road driving and used the gypsy exclusively as a city car.

I think you are an off road expert while I am totally ignorant about this aspect

[Vikram Arya]

Hi Shyam,

If the incline that you’re referring is so steep that it cannot be tackled in the first gear safely then you must engage the 4H or 4L (depending upon how steep the incline is) well before the incline begins. The reason is that you’re most likely to stall the engine if you try to engage 4H or 4L midway into this incline as the vehicle ideally has to be stationary while engaging the 4WD.

Now comes the proverbial question whether you should engage 4WD on dry/hard surface? Well if this was dry/hard & LEVEL surface then NO but here we’re talking about an incline that possibly cannot be tackled using the 1st gear & I suspect you may not enough stretch of the road to build up adequate momentum. Secondly please keep in mind your vehicle is brand new & you must refrain from putting unnecessary stress on the engine/clutch plate etc. for the first 1,000 kms and allow the various components to bed in properly.

During my teenage years I have lived in Himachal & had a chance to drive my dad’s petrol Mahindra that came with a transfer case. I do remember innumerable times the driver had to engage the 4WD for going up inclines that the anemic petrol engine just could not cope with & yes in almost all these cases these were paved roads.

Yes it is true that 4WD is primary meant to be engaged in a slushy/sandy/snowy road conditions. Now if you notice there are two parameters common to all these conditions; there is lack of traction & need to provide extra power than what might be available in the lower gears such as 1st.

In case of this incline in question both of these conditions are met; the tires are likely to lose traction & engine may run out of breath well before that owing to paucity of torque even in 1st gear. A rightly suggested by other experienced forum members a lot of people resort to slipping clutch & that’s the last thing you want to do as this may result in premature clutch failure in the long term.

My two cents.

[Sawyer]

I have never faced a long paved grade that defeated the Gypsy - probably because it is unlikely that such a road would be paved in the first place; after all which car that needs paving could do what a current model Gypsy, running 2wd, could not do on it? On a short one it is easy to do all the things that don't need one to stop on it for any reason - be it for oncoming traffic or to change gears.

But assuming there is one, I suspect 4wd high will not make a difference, it might actually make things worse by sending 50% of the power/torque to the two front wheels that don't have the traction to use it, and take it away from the two that can, because of the weight transfer to rear on the grade. 4wd low in theory could work, but I would be very hesitant to try it on a paved road, unless it is dead straight and can be taken without touching the steering wheel. And the only difference between first gear in 2WD versus that in 4WD low is that the car will be going a little slower at the engine speed needed for max torque and power. Unless the road is such that the speed needed to get the same power in first gear in 2WD cannot be maintained, there is nothing gained by going slower. And if going slower is needed to negotiate paved turns, using 4WD is a bad idea anyway.

I suggest you try running the car in first gear in 2WD, with your foot off the clutch pedal and get a feel for it, how fast it goes and how much power reserve it seems to have at different road speeds in first - and don't be overly alarmed at the engine sound. Modern engines that are running in can handle high rpm under low load conditions for short bursts even if they sound like they can't. What can damage a new engine is running/lugging it under load in fourth and have it struggle to do what it will effortlessly if noisily do in first/second.

Being familiar with the car always trumps reading about what it can or cannot do.

[Sawyer]

Another tip - on my car, the OE lights have always done a very poor job of lighting up dark roads at night, and I was advised to not install higher wattage bulbs because the OE reflector material is easily damaged by the extra heat.

My workaround was to install a pair of Hellas in the usual place in front, supported by a relay. They have worked well for over 6 years now, with a couple of relay replacements when it failed. I don't use them in the city, they are too bright for oncoming traffic, but they are very useful on dark state highways.

[Sawyer]

Picture for mounting guidance - note keeping of the airflow to the radiator unobstructed.

[shyamkrish]

Thanks all for the inputs !
Next time iam in Kodai i will take pictures of the gradient so you get an idea of how steep it is. Infact even when you walk on the terrain you have to walk in a zigzag fashion to beat the steepness otherwise you will get tired in a few minutes.

[shyamkrish]

Hi All,

I found a good place to test the 4WD. Its a large muddy ground. Its not deep enough for wheels to spin. So i guess even a 2WD would do.

Now in such a scenario when iam on 4WD, can i turn or should shift to 2WD while turning and then shift back to 4WD

Is turning ok in off- roading or are there some caveats?

[Sawyer]

It really depends on the surface, if the gravel is loose, you ought to be ok. In India, it is best to wait for the rains to do this.

Keep this basic in mind - in a Gypsy type 4WD, when turning, the front wheels/axle need to rotate faster than the rear wheels, but there is no differential between the two axles to allow that. So one of two things happen. Either the drive shaft prevents the front axle/wheels from turning, resulting in under-steer and unsafe handling till the point the drive shaft components literally break. Or, the front wheels rotate faster by breaking traction with the road surface, if they can easily do so - which they can where the road surface is slushy or has very loose gravel.

Where the road surface is poor, the fact that there is tyre slippage on turns also means that power to that extent is not available for moving forward. Hence even off roading, taking obstacles head on with a straight steering wheel is the way to make easier work of them. And thus not applying too much power in a turn is then the way to also save the vehicle.

In a place where there isn't surface where the wheels will spin easily, you aren't going to learn much of the 4WD capability of the car anyway, but go ahead and see how the car behaves. If you have to do U turns, shift to 2wd.