[shyamkrish]

As i had said earlier its been 3-4 months of owning a Gypsy and its been a roller coaster ride till now. This experience has led me to read a lot on engines, transmissions and gear ratios in the last few months. The more i read the more confused iam So hear are a few questions to the experts. To the best of my knowledge i didnt find any good answers to these elsewhere

Based on what limited knowledge i have , the Gypsy has 2 main disadvantages in terms of 4WD capabilities-

1) No center differential between front and rear axles- This is the reason its not recommended to engage 4WD on tarmac

2) Open Differentials in Front and rear axle

Iam more interested in point 2. What that means is, if one were to drive a 2WD (say RWD) vehicle offroad and one of the rear tyres gets stuck in mud (the other rear tyre is on tarmac), the Engine's torque (through the transmission and transfer case) would go to the spinning wheel and this low torque will not be enough to push the other high traction into motion. Thats why RWD gets stuck in offroad conditions

Now lets take the Gypsy. It has 2 open differentials , one in front and other in rear. The transfer case distributes equal torque to each of the 4 wheels. Now lets say the Gypsy lands in the same situation where only one rear wheel is spinning in mud. In such a case the torque sent to the other rear wheel is not enough to move it.Now what about the torque to the 2 front wheels. Assuming they are on a high traction surface, will enough power to go them to get the Gypsy out? My question is, does the rear spinning wheel limit the torque across all tyres or just to the other rear tyre?

Now take a scenario where the Gypsy is in a situation where 2 tyres are spinning in mud. Say, one right front tyre and the a left rear tyre. In this case what happens. Since the other 2 tyres get very less torque what is the option here?

Would be great if someone could share their experience

Thanks
Shyam

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by shyamkrish

My question is, does the rear spinning wheel limit the torque across all tyres or just to the other rear tyre?

Now take a scenario where the Gypsy is in a situation where 2 tyres are spinning in mud. Say, one right front tyre and the a left rear tyre. In this case what happens. Since the other 2 tyres get very less torque what is the option here?

In the first case, having a rear spinning tyre will still allow the front axle to be driven - if 4WD is engaged - and the car can be driven out easily.

In the second, yes, even the Gypsy will be immobilised.

[schakravarthy]

Originally Posted by shyamkrish

Now take a scenario where the Gypsy is in a situation where 2 tyres are spinning in mud. Say, one right front tyre and the a left rear tyre. In this case what happens. Since the other 2 tyres get very less torque what is the option here?

Would be great if someone could share their experience

Thanks
Shyam

Originally Posted by Sawyer

In the first case, having a rear spinning tyre will still allow the front axle to be driven - if 4WD is engaged - and the car can be driven out easily.

In the second, yes, even the Gypsy will be immobilised.

I had got into a similar situation in my Xenon XT. Front right and rear left tyre were in the air. The car was beached.
Tried quite a few tricks like digging the earth underneath the car, using foot mats/ stones under the tyre for a bit more traction, putting weight in the load bay etc. Nothing worked.
In the end a friend suggested using the handbrake. That did the trick and I was able to extricate myself.

[shankar.balan]

Im going to slightly hijack this thread for a bit.
I wrote to Maruti following some of the advice on this thread and I am absolutely flabbergasted because I actually received a reply from them.
(Attaching screenshots here)
All within 24-48 hours! Quite amazing.
Saying this, lets see how this game pans out!

[shyamkrish]

Shankar,

I also tried this trick before giving in to a white gypsy. I wrote 3 emails and got 3 replies just like you. But all roads lead to only one conclusion - WHITE !!!
They have amazing customer service and will reply to you. Thats it

Shyam

[khan_sultan]

Originally Posted by shyamkrish

As i had said earlier its been 3-4 months of owning a Gypsy and its been a roller coaster ride till now. This experience has led me to read a lot on engines, transmissions and gear ratios in the last few months. The more i read the more confused iam So hear are a few questions to the experts. To the best of my knowledge i didnt find any good answers to these elsewhere

Search & read up on technical threads. Not necessary about Gypsies but general technical threads. Most answers are there. Lookup the toque thread.

Based on what limited knowledge i have , the Gypsy has 2 main disadvantages in terms of 4WD capabilities-

1) No center differential between front and rear axles- This is the reason its not recommended to engage 4WD on tarmac

This is NOT is advantage from 4WD point of view. Only for road it is.

2) Open Differentials in Front and rear axle

==========

Now lets take the Gypsy. It has 2 open differentials , one in front and other in rear. The transfer case distributes equal torque to each of the 4 wheels. Now lets say the Gypsy lands in the same situation where only one rear wheel is spinning in mud. In such a case the torque sent to the other rear wheel is not enough to move it.Now what about the torque to the 2 front wheels. Assuming they are on a high traction surface, will enough power to go them to get the Gypsy out? My question is, does the rear spinning wheel limit the torque across all tyres or just to the other rear tyre?

Yes, in most cases, if your 4WD is working properly, front 2 are on firm flat ground, you can get through.

Now take a scenario where the Gypsy is in a situation where 2 tyres are spinning in mud. Say, one right front tyre and the a left rear tyre. In this case what happens. Since the other 2 tyres get very less torque what is the option here?

Time to call for recovery or get folks to push it out or install lockers

[shyamkrish]

hmm!, Iam happy and sad.

Happy because i atleast got some of the concepts of 4WD.
Sad that the Gypsy is not completely invincible in Off-roading as i had thought earlier.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by shyamkrish

Shankar,

I also tried this trick before giving in to a white gypsy. I wrote 3 emails and got 3 replies just like you. But all roads lead to only one conclusion - WHITE !!!
They have amazing customer service and will reply to you. Thats it

Shyam

OK lets see what happens next.
Also considering used ones in case a good example is found.
Most of those Im coming across look like re furbished ex Army Gypsys and have several niggles about them here and there. And they aren't all that cheap either.

I don't want to buy a battered machine - can't stomach that. Hence the thoughts are turning to a new one.

[Sawyer]

No vehicle made yet is invincible off road; not even a main battle tank on treads. Nature can't be completely conquered. That said, Gypsy can get to most places that a 4WD can.

Often, it is the 4WD people that get stuck because of their over confidence. Those without look for the easier paths, or trek, and reach their destination.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

No vehicle made yet is invincible off road; not even a main battle tank on treads. Nature can't be completely conquered. That said, Gypsy can get to most places that a 4WD can.

Often, it is the 4WD people that get stuck because of their over confidence. Those without look for the easier paths, or trek, and reach their destination.

So true. Know your limitations and that of your vehicle.
We have two legs two hands and a brain. That doesn't mean we can "go anywhere". Here we are talking of a 4WD capable vehicle which is the automotive equivalent of a mountain goat. Yet it also has its limitations because it also has a human piloting it and that human needs to use judgement and wisdom and intelligence.

My dad used to tell me to always respect my machine and nature and the relative juxtaposition when I was learning the basics of 4WD driving in slush and rocky broken roads and steep and wet grassy tracks etc in the hills. (Slippery as the blazes I can tell you.)
He used to say that one should never forget that there is a strong force called "Gravity" and that one was after all driving some machine which uses some hydrocarbons derived from fossils, for its fuel, is literally a hunk of metal plastic and rubber and rides on bits of rubber and metal with some air in between.

Such simple wisdom puts things very rapidly in perspective.
Don't try foolish things with your 4WD just because you think you're invincible.
Against Nature, no one in invincible, irrespective of one's skill levels, perceived or real!

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by shyamkrish

So hear are a few questions to the experts..

Shyam - you remind me of myself about 14 years back when I had forayed into the enchanting world of 4WD. I believe this thread should answer all your queries, irrespective of the 4WD vehicle you drive.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

I wrote to Maruti following some of the advice on this thread and I am absolutely flabbergasted because I actually received a reply from them

Ha... this is all their customer service will do, Shankar. You will get mails over mails with promises to resolve your query ASAP and all they will do is ask you the same details over and over again, and eventually point you back to the dealership. There is ABSOLUTELY NO CONNECT between their customer service and business.

Originally Posted by shyamkrish

But all roads lead to only one conclusion - WHITE !!!

Precisely!! Shankar - you are exactly where I was 3 months back In case you want a new Gypsy, just close your eyes and order a White ST. That is the only variant available - for all practical purposes - despite all the jazz you'd see on their website or brochures.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Most of those Im coming across look like re furbished ex Army Gypsys and have several niggles about them here and there. And they aren't all that cheap either. I don't want to buy a battered machine - can't stomach that. Hence the thoughts are turning to a new one.

Finding a used Gypsy in pristine condition is next to impossible my friend. As you said, 99% of your finds will be ex-services. One tip, based on my experience - do not go for ex-Army ones, even if completely restored. Army's usage of the Gypsy is very very rough, and any amount of restoration, possibly short of replacing every nut and bolt, will not give you peace of mind. Ex-Navy and ex-Air Force ones are better bet, given that their usage is primarily within premises but they are very rare to come by, give that more than 90% of orders from the services are from the Army. That said, nothing beats a brand new King, of course if you (and your better half) can digest the fact that you are paying closes to 8 lacs for a vehicle that will take you 20 years back in time

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Know your limitations and that of your vehicle

Spot on!

[sjcherian]

Originally Posted by Viju

This I believe is the harvest green colour we are talking about. Remember seeing a handful at the factory a few years ago.

Chennai Police has a whole fleet of Gypsy vehicles in this green color patrolling the city now for the past year or so.

[shankar.balan]

Here is a deadly looking rally type Gypsy with a HP registration thats been parked in my neighbourhood for some days. I see it every morning on my dog-walks.

Looks functional if a little over done...

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by sjcherian

Chennai Police has a whole fleet of Gypsy vehicles in this green color patrolling the city now for the past year or so.

Ask them if they'll give me one - second hand... and can you put up a pic or two?

[Sawyer]

Do people that install snorkels ever use them in anger? Considering that once the car is used in that depth of water where an air intake snorkel is useful, a complete wheel strip down, cleaning and inspection/lubrication is mandatory.