[Trojan]

Originally Posted by ringoism

4. Aria: Hardly knew they existed till recently. People seem to like them mostly, probably a better all-round traveler than the Safari and perhaps a bit more reliable / safer, too. Great second-hand deals out there. If the 2014-onwards Pure (simplest, least gadget-laden model) had come with 4x4, it would have been nice. Trying to avoid the electronic bells and whistles of the premium variants. And a low-range transfer case would really be helpful for us here, we use it all the time. And I'm a bit old-school in my preference for being able to see the front fenders / corners of a car. We do a lot of tight maneuvering up here.

5. Gurkha: Would do the job very well, but 5-door 4x4's seem too new (expensive) / too rare. Very few Gurkhas around in general, so parts supply iffy, too.
-Eric

Hey Eric, its always lovely to see the updates and the fabulous pictures you post of your Marshal and the terrain.

I own both of the above cars and thought of adding a few words based on my experience here.

Aria
Its a vehicle at an altogether different level, comfort is unmatched with the kind of suspension it comes with. Power is more than adequate and the cabin is humongous.
We have the Aria Pride 4x4 and while long distance cruising is awesome in it, its not really meant for the kind of roads that you traverse in.
It comes with an AWD system, which kind of judges basis the traction and only then powers the front wheels.
The challenges which I faced were on the tires which could do justice to the powertrain in off-road areas and secondly a major issue in the form of Ground Clearance and underbody protection.
The intercooler is placed right behind the lower lip of the bumper and is the first item to get hit.

What it would need if you could get a good example
- Better Ground Clearance
- Underbody protection
- Good all terrain or off-road tires

Gurkha
This is a proper rugged beast and will take on anything and everything that you throw it and that too with a proper hard top and basic comforts. We are living with it and it is actually nice to own and drive with family.

Link

Difficult to find the 5 door one, was our original choice too but was not available with the company. Even with the new model, the first one to roll out would be the 3 door version and 5 door would be released later on.
If 5 door is what you are keen on, in case you find one in the used market that would be super or you could look at the new generation Trax/Cruiser.

I was at the Force dealership last month and we were talking about how this vehicle would really serve the purpose of many people if it came with a 4wd, and the dealer said why not!!

Apparently they are happy to take a custom order with 4wd fitted on a Trax/Cruiser.
That would provide a bedroom space literally at the rear and plenty of grunt to go places.

Hope this helps!

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by Trojan

Hey Eric, its always lovely to see the updates and the fabulous pictures you post of your Marshal and the terrain.

I own both of the above cars and thought of adding a few words based on my experience here.

Thanks so much for your inputs here - extremely helpful and coming from a highly qualified perspective!

I do remember seeing a Cruiser (/Toofan?) taxi up here years ago - in the snow - which was clearly 4x4... The option was there on the Judo around 2002 when friends bought one, continued at least to the time of the attached sales brochure (2010), and I recall one Bhpian who had one way back. Might still be one running around here but it's a very old unit with the (rugged but painfully slow) N/A engine. Bodies were rust-prone earlier and the Force dealer up here had told us then (around 2007-ish maybe) there was a fault with the basic 4x4 system, some bearing which kept failing - subsequently resolved, I'm sure.




If they'd do a custom order, I'd be thrilled... though with BSVI and other stuff having come in, it won't likely be near our budget new. Anyone with leads on a used one 2010-up, please PM me.

-Eric

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by MB4DI

I am also searching for a similar long wheel base Bolero with stepped roof and 4WD capability. This thing does need couple of upgrades ranging from Rane PS from Camper/Pickup, HVAC including demister from ZLX version and comfortable seats atleast to complete the basic minimums of a daily commuting vehicle.

Great minds think alike, as they say...

I'm trying to find out (from a friend who's a MVI) whether the Camper can be white-plated under any circumstance. They've got plenteous legroom in back (so much that I'd probably move the seat forward and keep a bit of stowage behind it), they've got the 5-speed and P/S the Marshal lacks, and I think are more or less A/C ready (available in the Gold, anyway). Very simple to maintain, of course, and the loading bay would actually be useful for us - a lockable transverse tool-box as commonly used in pickups in North America would take care of secure "boot" space and the rest of the bed can be used for hauling - truly, even for "camping". Thinking to resto a 2015 I found in rough shape - but all depends on getting rid of that commercial plate.

As for the Scorpio 2.6 turbocharger, I wonder how much is due to the turbo size/geometry itself, or whether it is just set to a higher pressure. The MDI is at any rate not going to rev above 3200rpm, and the original turbo was said to be very light-pressure. An intercooler and increased boost (can be tweaked by modding the wastegate actuator) might do that engine considerable good.

-Eric

[AVR]

I would choose between a well-maintained 1) Safari 2.2 and 2) 3.0 Old Fortuner 2010-12
Safari-
Nothing comes close in combining family comfort, space and rough-road capability. The later 2.2s are fairly reliable. I had a 2.2 from 2009 and it didn't give any major issues till I sold it at 1.15L kms and my friend is still happy with it.

Fortuner
The old Fortuner while not the most comfortable long-distance car would come with bulletproof reliability, enough power and rough-road capability.

With both of the above, having a good view of their history, owner-profile would give you a good experience in the future.

Scorpio/Bolero are likely to be uncomfortable and not as spacious. With long-distance plans, they become quite important.

Cheers,
Adi

[ringoism]

Whilst waiting for whatever other vehicle to (perhaps) pan out, got to a bit of work in anticipation of the upcoming 5-yr inspection.

Needs one outer and one inner door handle and something done with the reversing lights which only occasionally work (probably just the connector on the transmission, which has loosened a few times). Other than that, the car's fit as a fiddle mechanically / functionally, and there's not much to do but some cosmetic touching-up. The majority of the (rust) spots this welding required were my fault, either because I wasn't careful about sealing the backsides of some of these areas earlier, or because I'd put up a layer of closed-cell foam sheet as heat-insulation after the last repaint, which I think had the effect of trapping some condensation in the seam behind the gutters - not good.

Anyway, post-welding, today was the first opportunity my nine-year-old had to get into bodywork - and thus far, he seems to enjoy grating/sanding body-filler - enough to have kept going till after dark!

Despite still having a half-liter of the previous 2K paint on hand, not sure how well I'll be able to manage blending (with metallics, "different day, different color", they used to say) - but I'm not too concerned about it... not trying to maintain a beauty queen here.












In between, had some work up at Dundee on the Atal Tunnel road, which made for a nice outing. This is the first Spring that the road's been open to the public, and it's been nice getting up to these areas early enough to see plenty of snow around:







I look at that last one and think: "No Scorpio is gonna give me that much ground clearance" - And then I think, "A Gurkha Extreme with that much ground clearance (and likewise a live axle) would cost 15L... and still be two doors short" :-)

Maybe I should just stuff some sound insulation in there and let it be???

-Eric

[MB4DI]

Originally Posted by ringoism

Great minds think alike, as they say...

I'm trying to find out (from a friend who's a MVI) whether the Camper can be white-plated under any circumstance.

According to one sales guy at Raj Vehicles [Mahindra A.S.S] Mohali has told me that he has facilitated several clients with same problem. As per him, the owner has to submit an affidavit from court to RTO, which mandates him to use his vehicle for strictly private use. Hence, granted with the permission of using white number plates.

Camper being a Bolero with loading bay has got its own advantages for sure. Optimum utilization of vehicle with ease of maintenance and service anywhere capability.

Originally Posted by ringoism

As for the Scorpio 2.6 turbocharger, I wonder how much is due to the turbo size/geometry itself, or whether it is just set to a higher pressure. The MDI is at any rate not going to rev above 3200rpm, and the original turbo was said to be very light-pressure. An intercooler and increased boost (can be tweaked by modding the wastegate actuator) might do that engine considerable good.

-Eric

I think its the both, the size/geometry as well as the increase in boost pressure from more than 20psi with 2.6L Turbo unit vs 9psi of MDI Turbo unit.

As the Bolero comes with 3.73 final drive ratio and if mated with slightly bigger size tires might help in relaxed cruising around 2500 RPM along with added benefit of higher GC during off-roading.

In US, they have got one performance upgrade turbocharger for Mahindra Roxor [MDI3200-TC], which according to them is bigger and has got higher boost pressure as well. LINK 1 & LINK 2

Mahindra parts bin makes it easy to add an overhead Intercooler from the Scorpio/Xylo family or front facing one from an older generation THAR.


Thanks

[BlackPearl]

Nice to see your updates Eric, missed them for a while!

Originally Posted by ringoism

I look at that last one and think: "No Scorpio is gonna give me that much ground clearance" - And then I think, "A Gurkha Extreme with that much ground clearance (and likewise a live axle) would cost 15L... and still be two doors short" :-)

Why are you not looking for a 4x4 Bolero?

[abhikb]

Hi,

A Tata Xenon should come handy as a replacement, had recently come across one here in the plains in Gujarat, a 2015 model with 47K Kms on the ODO having a 3L Dicor engine. The seller had been quoting below 5L for selling the beauty. This is just to give an idea in what price range it is available. Probably up north in Punjab/HR/DEL there might be a few better options available.

Originally Posted by ringoism

I look at that last one and think: "No Scorpio is gonna give me that much ground clearance" - And then I think, "A Gurkha Extreme with that much ground clearance (and likewise a live axle) would cost 15L... and still be two doors short" :-)

Maybe I should just stuff some sound insulation in there and let it be???

-Eric

Unlike the mountains where the summers and other seasons apart from winters are pleasant, in the plains weather gods are generally not lenient. Say after a long day of driving in the plains for 10-12 hours you may feel that having a AC/PS and a bit of comfort would have tired you less. These old beauties are trustworthy workhorses but then they don’t match up with the comfort and convenience of the newer models.

[svsantosh]

Originally Posted by ringoism

...I look at that last one and think: "No Scorpio is gonna give me that much ground clearance" - And then I think, "A Gurkha Extreme with that much ground clearance (and likewise a live axle) would cost 15L... and still be two doors short"...

Only a 4WD Bolero (live axles both side) can give you inner peace whilst replacing the Marshal. No Gurkha, Scorp, Mitsus, Isuzus, Def no Safaris can replace this old school Mahindra. Maybe a gypsy but you need one with a hard top and install a rock crawler for some low end grunt.

Maybe I should just stuff some sound insulation in there and let it be???
-Eric

If you got 5 more years of Fitness certificate done, just get some dynamat or equivalent and stick it to the doors and floor and roof. Let the tinker have his fun with a old Mahindra. A old Jeep needs its metal work days.

[DirtyDan]

Originally Posted by ringoism

I look at that last one and think: "No Scorpio is gonna give me that much ground clearance" - And then I think, "A Gurkha Extreme with that much ground clearance (and likewise a live axle) would cost 15L... and still be two doors short" :-)

Maybe I should just stuff some sound insulation in there and let it be???

-Eric

I got a good offer on my Invader and sold it to a friend two years back. The guy who bought it is as happy as a clam. He cleaned it up and routinely takes it up to Leh. I kept the oil changed and kept it in good shape, 4X4, MDi3200tc with 4:88 crowns I put in it...it's a Himalayan Hot Rod!

If i find a virginal Marshal, I am going to buy it and put some money in it...I think. Am keeping one eye on Maruti to see what they do in the near future.

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by abhikb

A Tata Xenon should come handy as a replacement, had recently come across one here in the plains in Gujarat, a 2015 model with 47K Kms on the ODO having a 3L Dicor engine. The seller had been quoting below 5L for selling the beauty. This is just to give an idea in what price range it is available....

That seems a great deal... A friend here (Aditya Dean) had found me a 3.0 4x4 on one of the sales portals for I think 3 lakhs - it had a lot of km's done and a few dings, but that would have been great. I hadn't realized at the time that the 3.0 had ever come with 4x4 (I thought only with 2.2), and while photo showed 4x4 badges, the description said 4x2... sent message to owner inquiring, but no response, so forgot about it. A mis-step acknowledged on my part when a couple months later, I saw my first 3.0 4x4 in the flesh (local white-plate, no less). Big mistake! Agree they'd be a great car.

Originally Posted by BlackPearl

Nice to see your updates Eric, missed them for a while! Why are you not looking for a 4x4 Bolero?

Hey bro, yeah, Covid had the car parked most of last year - never got more than 50km from home, and started riding bicycles (posting on that thread more) - I thought of you while contemplating all this... You in India? Wanna sell yours ?

They're great cars and I could do that... there are a couple here coming up for sale (2015 bsiii Di); But I think unless we're talking M2DiCR (less torquey off the line but good midrange, and 20kmpl highway!), it may simply seem too slight an upgrade / change over the Marshal. P/S is there and an extra gear, and both are significant- but it wouldn't be too hard to add those to the Marshal, at less cost than changing cars. A/C is an add-on to either, if it's the LX in view. I was reading your past advice to someone else, wherein you stated the Bolero wasn't much for highways. The Storm 4x4 people here were dreaming of / hoping for at one point would've been an entirely different story, of course, had it ever materialized.

Other thing is that Bolero seating and luggage areas are pretty tight. Not sure the actual footprint is less than the Marshal, but the latter's extra headroom allows the seats to be set up higher, effectively adding some legroom... at least it seems so. And considerably more stuff can be crammed vertically in the back, too. Scorpio in comparison to the Bolero is pretty roomy and tall back there.

And then you just start wondering whether the gov. will wake up one fine day and decide that no renewals will be given on BSIII vehicles... or that they'll be banned from traveling through all metros, regardless of year of manufacture, etc... BSIV seems like insurance.

Anyway, M2DiCR 4x4 was only made a couple recent years I believe (now discontinued I'm told), and not sold much as it was around 9.5L. If I could find one that was affordable I'd take it.

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

If i find a virginal Marshal, I am going to buy it and put some money in it...I think. Am keeping one eye on Maruti to see what they do in the near future.

Virginal would certainly be the wrong word to describe ours, better look elsewhere!!!


I'm actually beginning to think the ideal car may be a Scorpio Getaway 4wd mHawk... Parts highly interchangeable with the Scorp "Saloon"s (Xenon a little tougher that way, being a more unique platform); By 2014/15 the torque was sorted, the sub-2.5L saves me a bunch on insurance every year (IIUC), it's got the versatility of the cargo box (some home projects upcoming I think), all the basic creature comforts, reasonable efficiency / refinement. Stowage no issue with a typical North-American style, transverse lockable tool box in the forward section of the bed.

Worth looking for - Seems a rare bird, though... Anyone with leads on either this or a Xenon 2.2 4x4, please PM me.

Otherwise, may have to just pick up whatever more or less works in the interim.

-Eric

[BlackPearl]

Originally Posted by ringoism

started riding bicycles (posting on that thread more) -

What a coincidence, I have started riding cycle as well. It has been a just a couple of weeks though.

Originally Posted by ringoism

I thought of you while contemplating all this... You in India? Wanna sell yours ?

No, I am still in the UK. Have not able to visit India in the last 1.5 years due to the pandemic.

Originally Posted by ringoism

Other thing is that Bolero seating and luggage areas are pretty tight. Not sure the actual footprint is less than the Marshal, but the latter's extra headroom allows the seats to be set up higher, effectively adding some legroom... at least it seems so. And considerably more stuff can be crammed vertically in the back, too. Scorpio in comparison to the Bolero is pretty roomy and tall back there.

Agreed with all your points. Bolero will not be an upgrade from the Marshal.

[MB4DI]

Originally Posted by ringoism

Other thing is that Bolero seating and luggage areas are pretty tight. Not sure the actual footprint is less than the Marshal, but the latter's extra headroom allows the seats to be set up higher, effectively adding some legroom... at least it seems so. And considerably more stuff can be crammed vertically in the back, too. Scorpio in comparison to the Bolero is pretty roomy and tall back there.
-Eric

Eric,
Have a look....

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by MB4DI

Eric,
Have a look....

Lovely... tell me more...

That thing got a 4x4 lever?

The LWB Boleros with solid (live) front axles are very easy to convert to 4x4... find me one with P/S & A/C (and maybe the M2DiCR) and I'll take care of the rest...

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

If i find a virginal Marshal, I am going to buy it and put some money in it...I think.

Here you go...



Last of the (almost?) virginal around...

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by MB4DI

According to one sales guy at Raj Vehicles [Mahindra A.S.S] Mohali has told me that he has facilitated several clients with same problem. As per him, the owner has to submit an affidavit from court to RTO, which mandates him to use his vehicle for strictly private use. Hence, granted with the permission of using white number plates.

Camper being a Bolero with loading bay has got its own advantages for sure. threads/turbo-upgrade-to-stealth.

Yes, was told the same by an MVI in the Northeast. Here in H.P. not sure the local authority knows about or is willing to utilize this provision - too many Campers and too few honest (would-be commercial) owner/operators. Sent a message to local authority, but no reply so may have to inquire in person.

Originally Posted by Trojan

I own both of the above cars and thought of adding a few words based on my experience here.

Aria
Its a vehicle at an altogether different level, comfort is unmatched with the kind of suspension it comes with. Power is more than adequate and the cabin is humongous... a major issue in the form of Ground Clearance and underbody protection.

What it would need if you could get a good example
- Better Ground Clearance
- Underbody protection
- Good all terrain or off-road tires

Tyres can be managed one way or the other, I'm sure. I've got channels for imported take-offs of just about any size/type, if nothing else.

Had a look at the 2013 Pure 2wd yesterday, Apart from not being able to see the front corners while driving, I love the design. With the third row out, stowage area would be very generous despite the lower height.

Radiator and A/C condenser sitting kinda low & completely exposed, and no frame member nearby with which to attach solid protection, so that solution would take some engineering.

Still it's not nearly as low as sedans of course, and I think the suspension could grant an inch or two extra clearance by tweaking with one of a few options, we used to sometimes fit these types of things:



Air-bladders would be pretty cool if they make them for strut/ other coil-around-shocker setups... Just connect to a little onboard 12v compressor with convenient switch someplace, and you've got on-demand extra firmness/ ground clearance when and only when needed - something like an old Citroen!!!

Bigger Aria issues for us are the lack of 4-Lo gear, spotty Tata quality/reliability, and 4wd being available only on pumped up electro-variants... which in combination, as you say, tends to limit confidence. That's a main reason I'm not just taking my friend's clean one-owner Safari 4x4 (3.0) LX, actually. Numerous niggles, and not looking for another child to take care of!

-Eric