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Old 30th October 2016, 16:18   #166
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Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

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Originally Posted by ringoism View Post
Assuming you meant "beating" [re: the original trans. crossmember] and in that case, it's more likely been a great number them! Though it wasn't mentioned on my to-do list, I'm planning to redesign it to gain an inch or two of ground clearance - perhaps complete removal in favor of a piece of inverted heavy-gauge 4" c-channel and/or the newer-style low-profile rubber trans mount would do the trick. I don't do hard-core offroad, but these low hanging bits are what get me hung up when the snow gets deeper.
Just an inexpensive little DIY FYI for anyone else looking to gain a little GC (Ground Clearance) on a Jeep / misc. Mahindra product without having to increase CG (Center of Gravity - via bigger tyres, longer shackles, more radiused springs, etc): A definite win-win situation...

I suppose it was when I inadvertently drove over a huge stone in Solang Valley (also cracking the oil chamber) that I did this to my already well-battered and IMO too-low-hanging crossmember.

Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS-img_20161001_160611214.jpg

...Creating the perfect excuse for this long-intended upgrade...


Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS-img_20161001_185154784_burst000_cover.jpg


...Which took me from this:


Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS-orig-crossmember.jpg


To this (photo angle's a bit different but note the distance from the main frame rail or silencer pipe to the bottom of the crossmember):


Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS-img_20161002_111442.jpg


... Gaining at least an inch or two of mid-chassis GC in a pretty sturdy configuration. Probably could gain even more advantage by utilizing a newer-style rubber mount, which is lower-profile.

Bolted in easily...


Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS-img_20161002_111127.jpg


...and no issues in the nine days of stress-testing on some of the worst roads out there (Spiti/Kinnaur, as recounted last week in this thread).

The cost: an approx 2-3ft length of 4" c-channel, few bolts/nuts, and a couple cutoff wheels for the angle grinder... and a couple hours of work running into evening darkness...(as so often seems to happen)

Regards,
Eric

Last edited by ringoism : 30th October 2016 at 16:32.
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Old 6th December 2017, 11:37   #167
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Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

Loooong time no see Ringoism. How have you and your Marshal been?

Please post some updates.
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Old 10th December 2017, 22:21   #168
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Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

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Loooong time no see Ringoism. How have you and your Marshal been?

Please post some updates.
We're fine, Marshal doing 30kms daily school duties but i'm badly neglecting maintenance the past few months on account of producing these wood- burning stoves, very urgent as the snows approach.

Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS-img_20171103_10520101.jpeg

Hopefully will have completwd 25+ units by month's end. Long, hard work and not a lot of profit margin, but satisfying in some ways...

Marshal to-do list post- December:

1. Power steering (for wifey's sake)
2. front driveshaft u (cross) joints & yoke
3. Clutch (not slipping but drags a little and feels hard, despite lubrication and adjustment, so likely pressure- plate issue)
4. Headliner upholstery and painting of interior door metal and door jambs
5. Several lighting issues.
6. Differential- ring gear maybe, has been howling at speed for years.
7 Wiper motor high speed not working

Etc etc

Most urgently the (annual) selfstarter rebuild, as we're having to roll- start it these cold mornings...

Picked up an old Machismo500 besides... but that's another story/thread.

- Eric
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Old 10th December 2017, 23:04   #169
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Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

Over the course of 2017, the car has carried us to some truly lovely spots, most of them not too far from home. No time for an autumn journey this year (Spiti/Kinnaur/Banjar in 2016, Lahaul in 2015), but can't say we were impoverished:

Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS-img_20170307_1637014.jpg

Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS-img_20170310_105601.jpg

Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS-img_20170311_172215.jpg

Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS-img_20170313_153239.jpg

Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS-img_20170313_153856.jpg

Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS-sam_2085.jpg

Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS-sam_2095.jpg

Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS-sam_6225.jpg

Our weekly car-washings under the bridge became a Saturday afternoon ritual and it seems family tradition...

As usual did some service hauling firewood as well...

Rickety / neglected as it is, the car has been reliable and we're grateful to have it. If I felt like buying something that cost several times what this has, I could probably be tempted to trade up to something like a second-hand AWD Fortuner... but other than that can't think of much that would serve our usual purposes so well...

-Eric

Last edited by ringoism : 10th December 2017 at 23:08.
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Old 29th January 2018, 18:32   #170
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Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

A bit of long overdue upkeep:

First in order, considering the cooler weather, was the self-starter:

Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS-img_20180119_16552301.jpg

I have to say, in the six years we've owned this car, it's been the most problematic component, requiring yearly rebuilds. Hack mechanics as usual, using very little grease, assembling things gritty with low-grade desi parts and no real consideration of correct bushing tolerances... and then charging more for labor than I do for any of my own engineering services. They insist it's normal - just have to rebuild them yearly - which is to say I need to hand them over a couple grand annually. No thanks.

Ultimately the armature would get off-center enough to start dragging on the field poles, and in cold weather, would run the battery down quickly and not always manage to fire the DI at all.

So I figured it was time to do it myself.

Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS-img_20180120_15214802.jpg

Reground the armature shaft on the long end, as it was worn to a taper. Then installed a slightly undersized bushing, and did a little juggad in the form of a cap to seal out the dirt and retain the grease; also added a new "Bendix", as it had been failing to engage lately. A trickle-charge of the battery for a good 20hrs also seemed to do wonders, though the Exide "Little Champ" seems quite inferior to the Amaron Harvest in use earlier. Let's see how it holds up this time:

Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS-img_20180120_15214801.jpg


********

Lighting: I don't think there was a single bulb on the car that was consistently working properly. A brake light on one side, tail light on the other, and the headlights, high or low beam, were completely erratic. So had to play around with the wiring/sockets/bulbs a bit.

Besides that, presumably a young vandal had ripped one of the LED strips that had been serving effectively and unobtrusively as front marker lights. So replaced both with these Chinese units sourced last year in Mizoram - they were supposed to work as marker-cum-indicator, but mysteriously didn't, so just wired them in common together. I never really liked the ungainly, plasticky stock M&M units - these are much brighter and very neat, being flush-mounted:

Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS-img_20180129_133500.jpg

Both the inner small lamps nearer the grille and the markers on the fender sides have been wired as indicators, which seems sufficient to that purpose, leaving these as running/marker lights.

**********

The clutch had been giving trouble the past few months - not slipping or chattering much, but dragging (difficulty engaging 1st/reverse from a standstill), getting hard, and inexplicably requiring very frequent adjustments, till the available fork travel was minimal.

The cause:

Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS-img_20180124_12022701.jpg
Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS-img_20180124_12023801.jpg

And a lesson learned - this is a Rs100 part ("fork") that I neglected to change when the disc/pressure plate were changed five years ago. It subsequently wore all the way through the metal, as seen, where it rests on the ball-pivot. The disc had plenty of life left in it; the pressure plate may or may not have been the cause of the hard action, and the release bearing was unexpectedly getting rough/dry too (think my wife was driving with her foot on the pedal sometimes).

Anyway, now replaced it feels about like driving a Maruti now - very light and smooth. As a tip for anyone with a Mahindra product: According to our local parts guy, most M&M clutches are basically identical, but are packaged / labeled with differing MRP's dependent upon class (segment) of vehicle basically. So a Scorpio unit would apparently be a lot more pricey than the Pickup-packaged one I got, priced at rs3,700 MRP (genuine).

*****

Booster: Lastly, I used to joke that this vintage Jeep was equipped with "ABS" because in truth, it was just about impossible to lock up the brakes. Regardless of how hard the pedal was pushed. I'd assumed it was because it had been converted to disc brakes with no corresponding upgrade to booster, or even addition of a proportioning valve. But a local mechanic had told me that the small booster actually ought to work fine, and the front/rear bias did not seem imbalanced, so got to thinking the booster itself may be defective.

On my last visit to Delhi fellow t-Bhpian Vikrant had offered a nearly new spare booster he had laying around (he'd put a larger one in his own 4x4 Marshal), and I figured I'd give it a try.

Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS-img_20180129_133533.jpg

...Which is to say that my ABS has disappeared, the brakes are now STRONG, and I don't hurt my knees anymore trying to hold it on a hill...

****

Now all we need to make it truly drive like a small car would be power-steering... the kabbad in NerChowk had a complete setup mid-year 2017, for which he wanted rs8,000 - but has since sold it off, so need to start looking for another... shouldn't be too tough now that Bolero Pickups now come with it, and they tend to get wrecked pretty often in the hills.

All for now,
Eric

Last edited by ringoism : 29th January 2018 at 18:43.
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Old 29th January 2018, 19:29   #171
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Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

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Originally Posted by ringoism View Post
And a lesson learned - this is a Rs100 part ("fork") that I neglected to change when the disc/pressure plate were changed five years ago. It subsequently wore all the way through the metal, as seen, where it rests on the ball-pivot.
Thanks. Though it is normally changed during a clutch overhaul, I'll now place it in the must be changed category. Similarly in some models, the linkage includes a short link consisting of a cable with two connectors crimped on. Another part prone to almost sudden failure, and in the must change category.

Don't ignore a hard clutch. It is what I blame for my knee and hip trouble!

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 29th January 2018, 20:00   #172
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Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

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Thanks. Though it is normally changed during a clutch overhaul, I'll now place it in the must be changed category. Similarly in some models, the linkage includes a short link consisting of a cable with two connectors crimped on. Another part prone to almost sudden failure, and in the must change category.
Indeed, that short cable had broken just before the clutch job - on account of the hard action, I suppose. Replacement only rs50 I think. Re: the fork, I'm pretty sure I remember the previous mechanic repeating the old "Chalega" refrain when I asked about installing a new one (very rare is the conscientious / trustworthy mechanic)!!! I confess I'd never seen this happen on any previous car.

Labor for the clutch job was rs1,000 and in light of the aging release bearing, the fork failure was probably a blessing in disguise.

Good hearing from you, Sutripta.

-Eric
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Old 17th February 2018, 09:35   #173
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Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

Passing through Buruwa last weekend, I am pretty sure I spotted this legendary Marshal...
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Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS-20180210_161415.jpg  

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Old 3rd August 2018, 04:08   #174
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Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

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Passing through Buruwa last weekend, I am pretty sure I spotted this legendary Marshal...
You got it... But you really should have stopped in for tea/coffee, you know! If the car's there, chances are we are too! I'll put that invitation out there for any other wandering t-bhpians who might pass through, too.

Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS-img_20180725_15151001.jpg

Was out one day collecting firewood from the river;

I was on the bike: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motorb...o-impulse.html

...so my wife put the car in 4x4Low and managed pretty well over some big rocks and stuff...

She was good at dragging big logs across the river and up the bank, too... I know I got a good one!

...So good that she didn't complain too much when the left front brake pipe utterly failed a month back and she lost her brakes - in the main market - during tourist season...


Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS-img_20180612_13542801.jpg


Thank God she was nearly at a standstill when it happened. Anytime in the previous half-hour when descending towards town it would likely have been catastrophic - 'specially as she is known to drive a bit spiritedly. Also fortunate that it happened in a spot where she could pull off on the side and let traffic pass while she waited for me.

I rushed down and was fortunate to find a replacement pipe within walking distance (the benefit of sharing pickup parts); Borrowed a few tools from the mechanic and got it put on roadside.

I learned one thing I wasn't too happy about here, and I don't know if it's common with other modern vehicles: The thing is that despite the car's having a dual-circuit (f/r) master cylinder, the reservoir, instead of being divided, is common to both - meaning that if you lose brake oil suddenly in any one place in the system, your entire system loses pressure and fails - not just the front or rear independently. Back in the late 1960's this was the whole point of some governments mandating dual-circuit master cylinders - it was an early safety feature - you get a leak/failure, push the pedal further down, and you'd always find some pressure in the remaining, intact circuit. But due to a misunderstanding of this feature or for whatever other reason, it was designed out of our car. Really would like to do something about that.

******

Next day my wife again called me up and apologized... "Sorry to have to tell you this, but the steering seems to be badly binding..."

Aaaare!!! ...It was indeed suddenly, inexplicably very bad. Rebuilt the box (third time now) replacing the worm/roller and pinion in addition to the bearings (again) and top bushing this time - all of which I really should've done earlier. It's about perfect now.... I'd wanted to fit P/S but my kabbad guy didn't still have one in stock, and this needed repairing urgently. So here we are.

There seems to be an issue with water entry into the gear, which is what I guess rusted/pitted the original roller shaft. And I think it's because: 1) the box isn't vented in any way I can see; 2) the plate between bumper and grille was taken off/misplaced and this exposes the gear to both direct sun and also rain. Expansion/contraction of any air inside it, unvented, likely causes it to suck water in through the edges of the top gasket as the box rapidly cools during a rain. Maybe that plate wasn't purely cosmetic as I'd assumed, after all...

Anway, got to thinking the car's getting old and maybe should consider replacing it. Yeah... hard to believe... I thought I might own it till death do us part.

Soon after, was out in Spiti with a friend for several days, driving a 2016 Bolero with the M2DiCr engine. The descendant of our MDI3200 seemed so quiet and smooth observing it as a passenger, my wife would like the power steering and all of us the more highway-appropriate 5-speed and A/C. He said his neighbor in Kangra has a like-new, low-mileage one for sale, and it was tempting me... maybe even to go for the new 4x4 version which is supposed to be available.


Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS-dsc00474.jpg


Till I drove it myself for some hours out there and found it - despite some good points - a real let-down. Not as bad as the mHawk, but so very little low-end torque (as seems to be a curse upon most/all common-rail BS-IV engines). I couldn't believe the mighty DI had been so completely tamed! We struggled through stuff - even got stuck and were burning the clutch badly on that ridiculous sub-aqua concrete pipe at Chhota Dara - which the Marshal could have (and has) pretty much idled up over with complete ease. The Bolero's springing is a bit comfier but overly soft and up front we hit the bottom a number of times, even where there were no visible obstacles in the road.

Got home and behind the wheel of the "orange Jeep" again, and it just felt so responsive and healthy, and hardly weaker in the midrange, either, despite not having a turbo. And maybe the body's not that rattly, and suspension not that harsh after all... I didn't miss the power steering. And the weather's mostly pleasant these days... And the wife still likes it... and as Flotsam has proven, it gets a bit of attention.

So... I guess we'll keep it?!

-Eric

Last edited by ringoism : 3rd August 2018 at 04:17.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 23:33   #175
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Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

Quote:
Originally Posted by ringoism View Post

I learned one thing I wasn't too happy about here, and I don't know if it's common with other modern vehicles: The thing is that despite the car's having a dual-circuit (f/r) master cylinder, the reservoir, instead of being divided, is common to both - meaning that if you lose brake oil suddenly in any one place in the system, your entire system loses pressure and fails - not just the front or rear independently. Back in the late 1960's this was the whole point of some governments mandating dual-circuit master cylinders - it was an early safety feature - you get a leak/failure, push the pedal further down, and you'd always find some pressure in the remaining, intact circuit. But due to a misunderstanding of this feature or for whatever other reason, it was designed out of our car. Really would like to do something about that.
I've had this happen to me. In a Honda.

ARAI had a both at the Auto Expo. Took up this very point (and some others). None of the people manning the stall understood what I was talking about.

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 4th August 2018, 18:30   #176
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Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

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..........
Till I drove it myself for some hours out there and found it - despite some good points - a real let-down. Not as bad as the mHawk, but so very little low-end torque (as seems to be a curse upon most/all common-rail BS-IV engines). I couldn't believe the mighty DI had been so completely tamed! We struggled through stuff - even got stuck and were burning the clutch badly on that ridiculous sub-aqua concrete pipe at Chhota Dara - which the Marshal could have (and has) pretty much idled up over with complete ease. The Bolero's springing is a bit comfier but overly soft and up front we hit the bottom a number of times, even where there were no visible obstacles in the road.

Got home and behind the wheel of the "orange Jeep" again, and it just felt so responsive and healthy, and hardly weaker in the midrange, either, despite not having a turbo. ..........
So... I guess we'll keep it?!

-Eric
That is one of the problems of judging performance just from the Torque and BHP figures. There is a lot to say of the low end "Diesel Engine" torque in the good old DI engine. As they say, displacement is the king. What is really needed is a turbo charged diesel engine designed for high torque at low RPM, to cater to travel in hills and rough terrain.

Modern day turbo engines (be they diesel or petrol) are designed for highways and speed, not for low end low RPM grunt work. That is one of the reasons that Defense Forces have hung on to their large trucks with older engine design. No way a normal modern design truck engine; designed for highways; is going to slog it out in the fields and soft soil terrain.
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Old 7th March 2019, 12:15   #177
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Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

Not much going on with the car these days... and I hesitate to post at all in light of certain bhpians' recently expressing a dislike for my over-rated enthusiasm for the car against modern alternatives... Yes, it's getting old, yes, it's "outdated", yes, a bit of rust is coming lately - from the inside unfortunately; yes, it still does everything we need it to, albeit with the inevitable compromises. Yes, my wife still likes it (perhaps a little less than earlier) yes, it keeps us going in snow, and yes, is still very tolerant of careless maintenance, etc, etc...

It's still slogging it out in (my wife's) daily commuting... drove down as far as the Delhi outskirts in December and left it parked there at a farmhouse (to avoid Sir Kejirwal's displeasure... he had promised to confiscate even parked diesel vehicles over ten years, I heard). Made the mistake of leaving the inverter switch on there, and running the brand-new battery totally flat over two months... it seems to have been restored with the drive back up and a couple overnight charges, but I'm a little worried about it. Started fine these past two sub-zero mornings, let's see.

Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS-sight_2019_03_02_135942_818.jpg



I'd had the bearings greased the night before driving down, and the assistant-kid putting the locking hubs back together got it wrong, it was not fully disengaging on one side, and making a not very nice noise riding along. Locking it in for the next 12 hours was the solution (we were driving at night) till next day when I discovered what had been done wrong. I am not sure how much if any real damage occurred in having the locking splines partly engaging against light spring tension. They still lock in / drive the car in 4x4. The boy also lost two of the allen-screws there in the dark... sigh...

Big news is that it has finally joined the 21st century and graduated to radial tyres:

Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS-adobephotoshopexpress_4edd7a80031e47cb84ef71b6c401a614.jpg


Had discovered the Bara Hindu Rao tyre market last year sometime, and finally made it down (a little riskily) in the car to have some nice, pre-owned imported snow-tyres fitted. Japan-manufacture Bridgestone Blizzak W969's in 205-85-16, a bit taller (exactly 30") and wider than the 6x16 cross-plys but nothing too dramatic, if we keep the car we'll have to do the "passing" in another two years, so want to keep the car relatively stock-looking. And narrowish tyres work better for snow and some types of mud anyway. Probably 95% original tread @13,000/five pieces (comparable model seems around $200 new in the U.S. - which is ridiculous).

Certain E.U. countries and maybe even Japan require the fitting of winter tyres from November to March, and also mandate their scrappage at something like the three-year mark on the assumption that rubber will harden and become less effective on ice especially. So relatively unused vehicles can have nearly new tyres needing to be disposed of, and that's a plus for us. They do seem to work well in the bit of snow/mud we've encountered so far, fairly quiet on the highway (well, meaning they can't be heard at all above the screaming DI / whining diff gears ). Let's see how they work out longer-term!

Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS-sight_2019_03_03_102642_932-2.jpg

Also got the springs re-arched (again)... wish I could find someone who would do a proper heat-treating to restore temper... they always seem to settle down again, but this time added a leaf in each pack and made it a bit higher:

Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS-adobephotoshopexpress_c7a45c1e680f4e0e984ffee24c981a4a.jpg

Ground clearance is better than ever (probably 250mm+ everywhere but the diffs/spring shackles), and it does provide a commanding view of the road and surroundings, which the wife liked. We're all still nimble/young enough that climbing up inside doesn't present real issues... older hill-folks tend to remain limber enough themselves so the big step up doesn't disqualify us from any informal "taxi" duties!

-Eric
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Old 7th March 2019, 16:52   #178
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Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

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Originally Posted by ringoism View Post
Not much going on with the car these days... and I hesitate to post at all in light of certain bhpians' recently expressing a dislike for my over-rated enthusiasm for the car against modern alternatives...
Hey Eric,

I never miss your updates on this thread. Though I rarely post, but as soon as I get email notification of "OUR MARSHAL" (Yes, feels like mine too), I make it a point to log in as soon as I can. Having moved on from Gypsy and Bolero 4WD to the Creta for comfort and practicality(read daily driver), deep inside I still crave for the real bare bone toughies. Still dream of some day owning one again. I love the looks of Marshal and fantasize a custom build - a Marshal body over a 4WD Scorpio chassis! The naive idea is better(or is it more comfortable?) ride quality and the Marshal's rugged looks. I am no engineer, so don't know if it is at all feasible or whether I will even attempt such a stupid project ever. Till then I am living my dreams through your Orangie. Please keep posting.

-Jai
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Old 7th March 2019, 17:05   #179
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Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

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Originally Posted by ringoism View Post
Not much going on with the car these days... and I hesitate to post at all in light of certain bhpians' recently expressing a dislike for my over-rated enthusiasm for the car against modern alternatives...
-Eric
Touché!

Different context, different opinion. Love your write-ups, don’t let us stop you!
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Old 7th March 2019, 17:10   #180
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Re: Our Marshal DI 4x4 NGCS

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Touché! Different context, different opinion. Love your write-ups, don’t let us stop you!
Thanks for that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunwarior View Post
I love the looks of Marshal and fantasize a custom build - a Marshal body over a 4WD Scorpio chassis! The naive idea is better(or is it more comfortable?) ride quality and the Marshal's rugged looks. I am no engineer, so don't know if it is at all feasible or whether I will even attempt such a stupid project ever. Till then I am living my dreams through your Orangie. Please keep posting.
Ahh, so you're up in the Northeast as well (we were out in Mizoram for the winter). Great place for 4x4's, and I think it'd be a really interesting project, quite possibly do-able.

There was a beautifully-maintained 4x4 Marshal PH&E Dept. gov't vehicle in my wife's neighborhood in Aizawl several years ago, and I kind of wish I'd have put a tracer on it and tried to pick it up at auction... it was in new and completely original condition but has since disappeared, obviously replaced with something more modern and fitting current-day Aizawl aspirations (the gov't Gypsies seem to be disappearing as well).

Nearby where that used to sit still sits parked a Scorpio turbo 2.6 4wd... also government... And I really like those, the 4wd was rare in those early models. I'd try and track that one too, but trouble is that H.P. is no longer transferring in outside diesels above ten years...

Can't always get what you want...

Thanks for your interest, it's nice to know I'm not the only crazy one out there...

-Eric

Last edited by ringoism : 7th March 2019 at 17:16.
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