[discoverwild]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Without any doubt on anybody's capabilities, what a manufacturer can do in production, others cannot do, irrespective of what anybody tells you. Please be careful how you spend your hard earned money, "building your Jeeps"! .

DB Sir, with due respect to you, this is precisely why me and quite a lot of other folks have not put their hard earned money on the Thar.

What a manufacturer can do in production, has not been done. No two ways about it.

[Parm]

Originally Posted by desertfox

What is coming.

Jeep Wrangler - JK Manual transmission.

5 Speed Diesel Engine - A - 428 VM Motori - Italy ( Fiat )
4 Cylinder in line, DOHC 2800 cc
Power output - 200 PS ( 197 KW ) about 190 bhp
410 N-m Torque

Euro V / Bharat V emission compliance.

4x4 , low transfer case.

Now the best of Jaisalmer dunes can be tamed !

I want to be among the first to buy it.

Is it the same engine that's sold in UK/Europe?

Expected/indicative retail price in India?

[Sudarshan]

Originally Posted by desertfox

There are many 4x4 vehicles with IFS. But Thar is a 4x4 with unfunctional IFS offroad in 4x4 mode.

Can you please elaborate this claim ?

It would be interesting to share your research & home work that you have made to form such an opinion.

Its not that I am for or against the IFS / SOLID, but would be very interesting to know the reasons behind such sweeping statement.

BTW, any one knows the difference between the front wheel travel of Thar & MM 550 ? Actual & effective figures ?

On a lighter note; does shifting Thar in 4x4 mode locks its suspension too ?

Sudarshan

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Originally Posted by discoverwild

What a manufacturer can do in production, has not been done. No two ways about it.

Dear Discoverwild - a manufacturer can do anything in production provided he wants to. In this case, ask yourself, did he want to do this thingy at all? Did people even understand the potential of this common platform design? Did they ever realize that the vehicle as it exists today is just the first step? Did they even know that a certain vehicle existed as the second step in a series of platform progress propositions that this business brought to their doorstep? Have they ever thought of what they will do when other manufacturers / multinationals come in at the same price point? Those guys have seen blood, they will of course come (testing has already started). Oh come on now!

Similarly, and all of us are also still doing full timepass on "IFS v/s no IFS". You think anybody cares? Oh come on now, standing next to the vehicle also, people will not know whether it is IFS or no IFS. . Believe me, I am not joking!

Nobody is looking at the complete picture!.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[powertrain]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Have they ever thought of what they will do when other manufacturers / multinationals come in at the same price point? Those guys have seen blood, they will of course come (testing has already started). Oh come on now!

Hello BD Sir,
Does the above statement mean that your current employer has begun testing the SWB 4wd?? Please answer in "YES" only??!!
Sorry for being . Could not resist asking this question!!

Regards,
Varun

[fireblade007]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Discoverwild - a manufacturer can do anything in production provided he wants to. In this case, ask yourself, did he want to do this thingy at all? Did people even understand the potential of this common platform design? Did they ever realize that the vehicle as it exists today is just the first step? Did they even know that a certain vehicle existed as the second step in a series of platform progress propositions that this business brought to their doorstep? Have they ever thought of what they will do when other manufacturers / multinationals come in at the same price point? Those guys have seen blood, they will of course come (testing has already started). Oh come on now!

Similarly, and all of us are also still doing full timepass on "IFS v/s no IFS". You think anybody cares? Oh come on now, standing next to the vehicle also, people will not know whether it is IFS or no IFS. . Believe me, I am not joking!

Nobody is looking at the complete picture!.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Dear Behram sir,
I don't know nothing about IFS or the offroad ability of Thar but if a vehicle costing 8 lakhs has poor brakes, the manufacturer is in fact cheating the customers.

[discoverwild]

DB Sir,
For me, it is not about IFS v/s no IFS debate at all. I can't afford to risk being stranded 30 odd kms inside the jungle with a broken suspension and no way to haul the beast out. I always preferred the non-IFS version. I don't need the Jeep to do 100 kmph all day long. I would be happy doing 10-60 kmph for my work without letting me down.

It is just about the sheer jugaad quality that has been showered on the Thar. I test drove the MDi version and base my comments on that. The absolutely horrendous top, the rough edges, the brakes, the tyres and the shoddy interiors (if you could call it one). Even the track was narrowed. This was plain and simple short-changing the customer.

Now if I had to buy this and then get everything done outside (besides lose warranty), how can you validate your point - what a manufacturer can do in production, others cannot do, irrespective of what anybody tells you. Please be careful how you spend your hard earned money, "building your Jeeps"! ?

I am not asking for huge boulder eating tyres, nor an AC, nor power steering. Just a well built one.

[Shera]

There is ABSOLUTELY no doubt that the Thar is of sub standard quality - to cover it up with that a 'Jeep enthusiast' will spend hours and days to bring it up to his like, is a bull story. We can debate on this till the cows come home. Sadly the majority of Indian mindset has the ability to accept flaws under the disguise of restrictions, what ever they may be.
As a customer one pays money to get it's worth back. What one does after getting the product to enhance it, is one's choice and desire. But in NO way should the product be of under par standard at delivery.
All due respect to BD, but one cannot run away from the truth of quality irrespective of the constraints and the arm twisting of the manufacturer.
I've been wanting to buy the Thar, but have stayed away purely 'cos of it's built quality and to bring it to my standard and like, it's not worth the money or the time.

Originally Posted by discoverwild

DB Sir,
For me, it is not about IFS v/s no IFS debate at all. I can't afford to risk being stranded 30 odd kms inside the jungle with a broken suspension and no way to haul the beast out. I always preferred the non-IFS version. I don't need the Jeep to do 100 kmph all day long. I would be happy doing 10-60 kmph for my work without letting me down.

It is just about the sheer jugaad quality that has been showered on the Thar. I test drove the MDi version and base my comments on that. The absolutely horrendous top, the rough edges, the brakes, the tyres and the shoddy interiors (if you could call it one). Even the track was narrowed. This was plain and simple short-changing the customer.

Now if I had to buy this and then get everything done outside (besides lose warranty), how can you validate your point - what a manufacturer can do in production, others cannot do, irrespective of what anybody tells you. Please be careful how you spend your hard earned money, "building your Jeeps"! ?

I am not asking for huge boulder eating tyres, nor an AC, nor power steering. Just a well built one.

[alpha1]

As a naive newbie, my frank comment about Thar is:
1) If it was made for the enthusiasts, this thread holds a testimony to the fact that it has failed their expectations.

2) If it was made for pseudo enthusiasts, it works.

3) If it was made for bling (show-off) junta - it fails pathetically. To me it looks just like any other crude army MM540 / MM550 jeep which doesn't carry any bling appeal (I live near Pune cantonment, so imagine what poor impression the Thar leaves). To be brutally honest Mahindra Classic (produced decades ago) walks over Thar and trounces it in this aspect (and perhaps in the first two also).

[invincible7]

I think it would have been must great if M&M would have given options to the customer to just have a base platform at a resonable price and then customize it based on their requirements.
Its like many manufacturers provide the customization on their vehicles and the customer enjoys flexibility of varied options thrown at them based on their requirements and fancies before the vehicle rolls out of the factory.

Ofcourse this requires a different thinking and perspective - but since now its established its selling like hot cakes - why not extend this to the cutomer and take it to the next level.

[Rajith]

When CJ/MM540/550/550ngcs/Legend/Classic/Major - production stopped all became LEGENDs. So lets wait for the THAR stoppage to pay tribute to the machine & mentors .

[DirtyDan]

Originally Posted by fireblade007

Dear Behram sir,
I don't know nothing about IFS or the offroad ability of Thar but if a vehicle costing 8 lakhs has poor breaks, the manufacturer is in fact cheating the customers.

If you look around for it, you will find a post by this B.D. fellow who says just that in no uncertain terms. And he was good enough to spell out the remedy for the poor brakes. You guys surely are ready to hang poor old B.D.

He may not know much about cars but that Xylo "Happy Legs" commercial that B.D. did surely was artsy-fartsy.

.....and it's "brakes", man, "brakes" !!!! Give ole B.D. a "break", huh? He so wanted to be a chorus line choreographer but had to settle for being a high ranking engineer. Please leave him in peace to pick up the rest of his shattered life and soldier on bravely.

[anda60213]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Nobody is looking at the complete picture!.

Here is the complete picture as I saw it:

I wanted to buy an urban lifestyle vehicle (which the Thar Crde claims to be).

I was sold a piece of freaking s..t

I incurred a financial loss by selling it but I had to cut my losses before I became one of those people who build a divine relation with their jeeps just because they cannot find any buyer for it.

I am not ever buying another Thar (for that matter probably not even any other Mahindra) vehicle.

The ford ecosport will serve my needs for urban lifestyle not only just as well but a whole lot better - what with all the other creature comforts already available in it.

The Force Gurkha offers a whole lot of creature comforts and for someone who is willing to endure the crappy quality of manufacturing - it is better to go for Force Gurkha than the Thar.

If you are into more luxury - The Force One is coming out with a 4X4 version which is ready for marketing. It is a lot better in build quality than the XUV.

Finally for those who are into Urban Lifestyle (the target customer of Thar) - remember that the Jeep at any price point is readily more acceptable than the piece of garbage being sold under the name of Thar - because the Urban Lifestyle customer has the money, wants all the goodies but has no time for all the issues - That is the urban lifestyle customer.

Thar Sucks! M&M xxxx's. That's the big picture.

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Originally Posted by anda60213

Here is the complete picture as I saw it:

Dear Anil - I appreciate your comments but you have still not got the complete picture. You are only looking at the "Product - Customer" interface as it affected you.

What to tell you now my friend, the complete picture is as follows:
The timeless shapes of the "CJ" and the "MM" are the last umbilical cords of the company which owes its existence to this wonderful vehicle called "Jeep". I tried and did everything possible to ensure that this legacy stays alive and thrives, that's why "as the first step", Thar got born. It is now upto the company to decide whether they want to nurture this fantastic opportunity or lose it forever.

My dream:
My dream was to see this family of vehicles roll off the assembly line with the letters "J E E P" emblazoned on them. I hope you realize the extent to which I love this magic word. I guess my dream will always remain a dream. At least I dared to dream and I have no hesitancy in stating so.

That is the complete picture.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

My dream was to see this family of vehicles roll off the assembly line with the letters "J E E P" emblazoned on them. I hope you realize the extent to which I love this magic word. I guess my dream will always remain a dream. At least I dared to dream and I have no hesitancy in stating so.

That is the complete picture.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Mahindra does not make jeeps. Has not made them for many many years. But Chrysler(who make jeeps) is coming to India, and you know where to send your resume to to fulfill your dream of JEEP!