[desertfox]

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...ra-thar-4.html

DB Sir, please check this thread and comment if the replacement parts in the front wheel are as per your suggestion. I dont think they are.

Meanwhile the upper arm mountings were replaced last week at a cost of Rs. 370, it will be attributed to extremely bad and pot holed roads in Gurgaon and in Surajkund on approach to the Dr. Karni Singh Shooting Range.

[akshay4587]

Took a Can of WD40 and gave the wheels a generous spray,on the inner side,as given in the picture on the previous page.
Result-Issue fixed

[narendra.vw]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

[b][u]
Dear narendra.vw - dig a little deeper

Behram Dhabhar

DB Sir, I guess it should be the rivets of friction plate.

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Sutripta - release bearing is not an idle bystander when the clutch pedal is not pressed. It rotates 100% of the time that the engine runs. What you are referring to happens in old generation vehicles like the Ambassador / Maruti 800. This is not clutch bearing noise, neither it is unloaded constant mesh pinions. Dig a little deeper, you'll get the answer.
r

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Sutripta - your comment - "in the Thar, is the release bearing on a (spring loaded) fork, or operated by a annular coaxial slave cylinder? An exploded parts diagram would be educative" - the release bearing is fork operated. The slave cylinder is mounted outside the clutch housing. The operating mechanism is of Bolero VLX (exactly same part numbers, therefore used ).

My reason for asking was different. If the fork has a return spring, it should pull the release bearing clear. ie not turning 100% of the time at engine rpm.

Anyway, going to Assam tomorrow (and so will be off the forum for some time also). If not the Thar, enough Boleros around there to take a look-see.

Originally Posted by narendra.vw

My experience ,
It’s the clutch plate that is causing the sound.
Clutch plate has springs to give cushion between the friction plate & to the Gears. These springs come in 4 or 6 no/-sits in predetermined slot made by the manufacturer.
The slot has to be tight fit for the springs. Springs should not have play with the slot..

Dear narendra.vw - you are partially correct, although it is not just loose springs, dig a little deeper, you will find the full answer, nevertheless, well done!

Lots of things in the clutch assembly/ bell housing which will which can make a noise. One needs to separate the buzzes/ rattles (which are not rpm dependent, but can have resonance peaks) from ones which have 1:1 correspondense with rpm. The Thar clutch noise:- was assuming it was rpm related, but would now like confirmation from those who have it.

@narendra.vw: Under no load condition, it is likely that some of the springs will not be compressed. But centrifugal force should push it against the outer part of its slot. I think the Thar owners are complaining of a noise much louder than the buzz a loose in slot spring will cause. And though it is turning with the engine, this noise should not be 1:1 with rpm.

Regards
Sutripta

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

The pipe orientation is not suitable for hard core 4*4 application as it is oriented from the bottom and can break due to stone hit. Use Scorpio M2DI front brake pipe in this application with banjo bolt and two washers, reliability will become 100%. I had mentioned this on several occasions on the forum but upto now nobody has done it, do it naa guys, it takes only half an hour to fit, it will never ever fail yaar!

Wanted to add that this is priceless advice, but time limit was up!

Regards
Sutripta

[TuxDiesel]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Samwagon -

Now I am raising the bar, keep the wheel rims same, put 245/75R16 JK Elanzo tires and see the stance improve

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Sir,

I'm surprised by this recommendation. The Yokos and Maxiss seems to be this forum's favourites.

Since my jeep spends more time on highways and a OTR once in two months, would you recommend the jk elanzo tyres for this type of usage?

[narendra.vw]

Regarding Release Bearing, if it is defective, sound appears when clutch is depressed (when in contact with the pressure plate).
Centrifugal force while Idling is not sufficient for the springs. Try to increase the rpm & then check.
If constant sound is heard, it’s gears mesh problem related.
One more information needed. Does the sound comes in cold start or normal temp start. This Info is the most important.

[akshay4587]

Originally Posted by narendra.vw

Regarding Release Bearing, if it is defective, sound appears when clutch is depressed (when in contact with the pressure plate).
Centrifugal force while Idling is not sufficient for the springs. Try to increase the rpm & then check.
If constant sound is heard, it’s gears mesh problem related.
One more information needed. Does the sound comes in cold start or normal temp start. This Info is the most important.

No it doesn't.
Only comes after the thar has run a fair bit of kilometers.

[narendra.vw]

Originally Posted by akshay4587

No it doesn't.
Only comes after the thar has run a fair bit of kilometers.

Following details limit my experience.
From your feed back, if sound appears only when engine is heated up then It’s definitely from the gearbox.
To find out, drain the gearbox oil & fill it with higher grade oil. Run the car for few km until temp touches normal(Note Initially gear shifting will be Sticky),.check for the sound. If the sound is not audible then I’m afraid it’s counter gear bearing or gear itself.
Solution, go back to recommended GB oil & add good quality GB Additive liberally(Meaning, bit more than necessary). This will help in some way or live with it. Omega I recommend if you can get one .

[desertfox]

Went to the AAC again.

This time the electrician was there. Took the vehicle for a test drive and the constant clicking sound in the relay was detected again.

The diagnosis was that the AC switch was faulty, something touching was triggering the AC relay constantly.

Left the Thar there and after one day it was delivered to me.

Drove it a short bit ( about 6 km ) to the office today with the AC running and the sound seems to have disappeared.

The AAC got the vehicle dropped at home last evening as a courtesy.

[datvichrox2]

Originally Posted by Drlmtukkar

Db sir I have Elanzo Supra on my thar and they are really doing a great job.Both on n off the road. I had first seen them on the 521 and had to do a lot of head breaking to get them.

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Drlmtukkar - hello there! I know that your comment is correct, still people waste perfectly good money to buy nonsensical tires, I wonder what is wrong with them! With Elanzos and a perfectly tuned suspension, 521 ran as if it was on rails. Please read the "Panvel to Alibag" drive review of August 2010, EXAMM of June 2010 and numerous occasions between Kandivli and Nasik. Now please do me a small favor. Knock off those (in my opinion) silly alloys, use production wheel rims, then see how dynamics improves! I am attaching two "drool" photographs to enable you to take this correct decision! .

Are the Elanzo Supra tires HT or AT tires? There's no mention of it on the web either. How are they compared to tires that are advertised as AT?

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear SutriptaThe pipe orientation is not suitable for hard core 4*4 application as it is oriented from the bottom and can break due to stone hit. Use Scorpio M2DI front brake pipe in this application with banjo bolt and two washers, reliability will become 100%. I had mentioned this on several occasions on the forum but upto now nobody has done it, do it naa guys, it takes only half an hour to fit, it will never ever fail yaar!

Pardon my ignorance, but what kind of failure are we talking about?

Originally Posted by akshay4587

Took a Can of WD40 and gave the wheels a generous spray,on the inner side,as given in the picture on the previous page.
Result-Issue fixed

Great! Glad this worked. But as DB sir pointed out, its just a temporary measure for both of us.

Originally Posted by Sutripta

The Thar clutch noise:- was assuming it was rpm related, but would now like confirmation from those who have it.

Originally Posted by akshay4587

No it doesn't.
Only comes after the thar has run a fair bit of kilometers.

Originally Posted by narendra.vw

Following details limit my experience.
From your feed back, if sound appears only when engine is heated up then It’s definitely from the gearbox.
To find out, drain the gearbox oil & fill it with higher grade oil. Run the car for few km until temp touches normal(Note Initially gear shifting will be Sticky),.check for the sound. If the sound is not audible then I’m afraid it’s counter gear bearing or gear itself.
Solution, go back to recommended GB oil & add good quality GB Additive liberally(Meaning, bit more than necessary). This will help in some way or live with it. Omega I recommend if you can get one .

True that the sound is very much audible when idling after a long drive.
But I sense that there is a difference when I press and release the clutch pedal just after cold start too.
Its like, there's something already present during cold conditions that gets amplified after engine gets heated up.
Akshay, could you check this out? Listen carefully after the first start of engine.

Originally Posted by desertfox

Went to the AAC again.

This time the electrician was there. Took the vehicle for a test drive and the constant clicking sound in the relay was detected again.

The diagnosis was that the AC switch was faulty, something touching was triggering the AC relay constantly.

Shahid bhai, I think I too have noticed the constant clicking when AC is on. I should get it checked out too. Hope your issue is resolved.
I shall get you the close up pics of HT this weekend!

-Vimal

[Drlmtukkar]

They are not branded as AT but I have used them off road where that have performed commendably. I had seen them on DB sirs 521 n took d plunge and have not regretted. Most importantly ur GC is also up by almost 10mm so that's good n they are cheap as compared to any other tire in this size by almost 2-2.5k per tyre

[akshay4587]

Originally Posted by datvichrox2

Pardon my ignorance, but what kind of failure are we talking about?


Great! Glad this worked. But as DB sir pointed out, its just a temporary measure for both of us.







True that the sound is very much audible when idling after a long drive.
But I sense that there is a difference when I press and release the clutch pedal just after cold start too.
Its like, there's something already present during cold conditions that gets amplified after engine gets heated up.
Akshay, could you check this out? Listen carefully after the first start of engine.


-Vimal

Hi Vimal,

I checked on a cold start,and my thar idles like it should.
No change in sound before or after depressing the clutch.

[desertfox]

DB Sir,
Strange things keep cropping up in the Thar.

Look at the picture below.

From where does the coolant come out and spill on the driver side running footboard just below the RHS door ?

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by datvichrox2

True that the sound is very much audible when idling after a long drive.
But I sense that there is a difference when I press and release the clutch pedal just after cold start too.
Its like, there's something already present during cold conditions that gets amplified after engine gets heated up.
Akshay, could you check this out? Listen carefully after the first start of engine.

Hi,
Checked out a Thar in Assam. Did not have the kind of noise being discussed here, but then I drove it for around 7 Km only. So really no first hand comments on the noise.

The release bearing fork does not have a return spring! (at least not external). So release bearing is on all the time.

Re: noise: I suggest instead of speculating, you contact DB directly. I have a feeling he cannot say certain things on an open forum, but am sure will guide you on a one to one basis.

Regards
Sutripta