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-   -   Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4 (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-vehicles/153130-review-force-gurkha-4x4-12.html)

Body shell aside, Thar is not Jeep.
It's a capable 4x4 lifestyle vehicle.

Hardly anyone feels that this vehicle is worth plonking 10 lakhs for. However, it does make good dinner conversation though.

Sometimes, I wish the fanboys would actually buy one. Then atleast we can get realistic feed back after they experience the capabilities of this vehicle.

Agreed. The Gurkha seems to be trying to sell itself (like so many others) on the basis of a rugged image and defense forces heritage and associated naming. Real tests will be its ability to: 1) live with it day to day; and 2) to get into (and preferably also out of) tight places with it whenever OTR. I wouldn't personally pay 9L for one, but then again I wouldn't pay 8+ for a Thar w/hardtop, either.

What I WOULD seriously have considered paying hard-earned cash for would be (and briefly they DID make them a few years back) a plain-Jane, no-frills, thoroughly unsexy Judo/Gama 4-dr 4x4 with locking diffs - which would surely have been a smoother-riding IFS vehicle with lots more interior room and more OTR capability vs. the 7.5L Bolero DI 4x4, which apart from the very rare and spare-parts-challenged Sumo 4x4's has been really the only other available vehicle in this class. I could easily give up the snorkel and the silly 4x4x4 stickers, and I wouldn't be surprised if the 4dr cost less than this Gurkha. "Image" products tend to cost more than they're really worth, more than they should considering what's on offer. Trouble is that in today's market a plain 4-dr. would probably appeal to even less people than the Gurkha has, and I'm dubious about Force ever offering it again.

Very well put. Although the relative crudeness / low quality of the interiors, door handles, etc, makes me wonder how successful it really deserves to be as a "llfestyle" type offering, as well. I appreciate the hard work and corporate risk that went into offering something like this in the modern market, but sometimes it's hard to think of it as much more than one more image-booster.

Forced to choose between these two though, and having driven both just a bit in the hills, I'd be pretty tempted to extend myself just a bit extra and go for the Gurkha.

-Eric

Eric, Let me explain my views on this.

First off, although I drive a Thar DI, I am not a fanboy of Thar. Thar like most other vehicles sold by Indian manufacturers are a huge compromise for the amount you shell out.

When you sell a vehicle like Gurkha for over 10 Lakhs on the road, then it automatically becomes a "Lifestyle Urban Yuppie" vehicle, only affordable by the relatively affluent bloke. Now this relatively affluent bloke like the rugged looks of the Gurkha but hates the shitty power train and driving dynamics.

You can't sell a vehicle that costs 10+ lakhs on road and expect the buyer to live with a vehicle that is underpowered and drives like shit and performs only average off-road due to the under powered engine.

If you want to sell it to the rugged macho types who wants a no frills off-roader, then you can't charge 10 lakhs for it.

First off Gurkha needs to identify it's potential market, then build/price the vehicle accordingly. As of now there is no buyer for the vehicle, only armchair supporters.

You may call the Thar CRDe a lifestyle vehicle, but it has struck a cord with the off-roaders, that is why Mahindra is selling about 500 of them a month at 10+ lakhs on the road. Besides many of them are performing extremely well in the Indian off-road scene. The more hard core off-roaders have done major mods to address the weak points of the Thar such as the Front IFS & Rack and Pinion steering etc, etc..

One thing, I can tell you it is fun to drive do to the excellent engine, gearbox & chasis. I have driven the Gurkha and it is neither of these. Frankly, if Mahindra were to relaunch the Marshal with a proper engine, that would be my first choice.

(Mod - very sorry about this double-post; don't know how it happened and would delete if I could):

He-he-he... All you'd have to do to be fully convinced of how truly wonderful the Gurkha is, not only in terms of the engine/gearbox but everything else, would be to spend about ten minutes in our beloved Marshal... No, NO... wait...!!! I take that back, in favor of a proposition: How about I drop a CRDe engine/NGT520/BW TC into our Marshal, sell it to you for half what M&M ever could, and I'll use the proceeds towards buying us a Gurkha?!!!:)

More seriously, what you wrote is well-put and I can see your points. Especially as (even being non-macho) I don't have an extra 10+L sitting around.

If I had to try and summarize my own perspective, I'd say that both this and the CRDe Thar are pretty evenly matched in terms of both their capabilities and deficiencies. IMO Force has failed in their marketing / promotion more than anything, which I suppose is to be expected of a company that never really sold private passenger vehicles. I can't blame people for not feeling quite ready to take a plunge into the dark unknown, and the company doesn't seem to be doing a lot to familiarize / reassure potential customers the way that M&M has with their organized adventure tours, etc. Lacking the vast dealer network and experience in this realm and probably even the cash, Force is admittedly not in an easy position.

Still, as I see it the car itself does what it was designed to pretty impressively, and sits in a unique market position / price at roughly a couple lakhs more than a (hardtop) Gypsy or Thar DI / 4x4 Bolero DI, and a couple lakhs less than the cheapest 4wd SUV - the Scorpio S4; It's at least as capable in the rough stuff as the former set and vastly more comfortable / practical besides, while being far more capable and only a bit less comfortable / well-appointed than the latter. So I don't see the problem here.

Obviously it's not the ideal vehicle for every situation (arrive quickly / cruise effortlessly at 140kmph- 50kmph over the posted speed limit? Drive through water as deep as its snorkel? Include built-in touch-screen navigation/reversing camera/climate control? C'mon...!!!); BUT it provides basic levels of comfort and can do just about anything that most people could reasonably want a vehicle to, without (vs. Range Rovers and Audi crossovers) costing as much as a house; As a potential "one car" solution, as such it may yet fill this open market spot very well, especially in the increasingly affluent semi-rural context - just as with a slightly different set of strengths, the Thar CRDe has succeeded in the more metro-based "weekend warrior" scene. 10+L isn't cheap, but production costs of lower-volume units don't allow for max-value offerings, and owning a single all-rounder for 10+ is still a lot cheaper than owning three more specific-purpose vehicles (as a couple people I know do).

Will add in closing that stuff like driving dynamics can be as subjective as anything else being discussed in the thread (styling, "road presence" etc), and that any real quirkiness/ deficiencies here can normally be solved with familiarity / experience / skill (just as was the case of Porsche 911's for years). Personally, speaking from beyond the armchair I can say that I left my time behind the wheel of the Thar CRDe (not to me "fun" at all) rather disappointed (bad turbo lag, unsettling body rocking, very poor brakes, plasticky / breaking peripherals), whereas the Gurkha left me quite impressed. The Gurkha for your 10+L does give you alloy wheels, a lot more interior space, a very comfortable full-width, forward-facing rear seat, locking diffs, a solid factory steel hardtop, that fancy snorkel, and more importantly to many of us, good low-end torque. I can't see it as anything but a reasonable option, ASSUMING you've got a good local dealer whom you feel you can trust at least as much as your local M&M outlet.

Thanks,
Eric

Hey everyone!

Here is a quick update!

I had registered myself on the Gurkha website "last month" for the TD of the vehicle. Today I got a call from the SM(Sales Manager).

SM: Hello Sir! We are launching the New Gurkha on Saturday 11th Feb 17, are you interested in buying this car?

Me: Oh! Well.. That depends on how good the New Gurkha is! When can I get a TD?

SM: Saturday we are launching, you can comedown on Monday. Anytime on Monday is fine. Our location is on the Singasandra Road on Hosur road.

Me: Thank you! I'll be there then.

SM: Thank you Sir!

I am wondering what new version these people are going to launch!
Considering the fact that only EURO 4 norm vehicles can get Bangalore registration!

Fingers crossed :thumbs up

Guess you meant BS4 ?

Ah! Yes, I meant BS4. Typo happened in excitement stupid:
I guess the Saturday launch will be a silent one. I tried searching for any news update regarding the same, but couldn't find anything.

However, I read somewhere that from this year onwards ABS is going to be a mandate for all vehicles and Airbags to be optional. Don't know how true that will hold for core off-roaders!

Gurkha will be relaunched with the Force One engine i.e 2.2 litre BS4 compliant 139bhp and 320 tourqe

This is good, but in year 2___ ??

My friend got call from Bangalore dealer, but aparently it is the same under-powered engine with a common rail system to meet BSIV emission norms.

Gurkha relaunced with a much nicer shape. Indipendent suspension with coil springs in front and 5 Link soilid axle rear suspension. MWB 3 Door a LWB 5-Door version available. Sadly engine is still only 85 bhp/230 NM Torque from 2.6 liter engine. They should have made it on par with Thar 105bhp/260 NM given additional weight of the metal body. But styling is spot on.

Any information regarding pricing? Also why did they move from the tubular chassis to C-in-C?

Got these brochures from the Force Guy from Mumbai. Looks decent though.

C-in-C is stronger than Tubular but Tubular allows more flex.

Pricing is about 12 lakhs on the road for 4x4 Hard Top with AC & PS.