[codelust]

Eric,

This is one vehicle (though the LX version), that has been under consideration as a future upgrade. Being a Gypsy owner helps in ignoring a lot of the problems of the vehicle and I have driven a 2WD version extensively. I would call it the best compromise vehicle for touring on the highways and rough terrain, at that budget. And adding that 'compromise' in the previous sentence makes a lot of difference.

That said, and going a bit OT here, any feedback on the Fortuner in those terrains by the people who own it in HP?

Originally Posted by desertfox

Last month I took my Scorpio for a mountain run on the Kaladhungi - Nainital road, tarmac now. On most hill climbs it needed to drive in 2H 2nd gear. It ran out of steam frequently in 3rd gear.

Have driven that stretch in three different vehicles, one of the mHawk Scorpio, the other, recently in Figo diesel. To be fair, very few vehicles will do the twisty bits in 3rd consistently going up. The worst part was not the climb, but driving Bazpur - Tanda in the Scorpio.

Originally Posted by desertfox

But it was a good fun filled trip.

The Delhi Moradabad road has excellent eateries. McDonalds, KFC, Dominos Pizza, Sagar Ratna, Udupiwala, even a couple of 3 star hotels closer to Moradabad and numerous good Dhabas, No other highway in India would have such a selection I am sure.

GT Karnal will howl in protest reading that sentence.

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Yes. The Storme is a good compromise because major problems of the safari(eg turning radius, that silly vague steering etc.,) have been solved.
Its expensive in 4x4 form though at 15L
But you do get ABS and Airbags.

The price is the killer there. At 15L, a low odo reading Fortuner becomes a serious option, even at 18L. If my budget will ever stretch to that, the 3L premium is what I will gladly pay for a used Fortuner in good shape, than having to risk it with a Tata or M&M for the terrain we do often. The other option is a used Pajero, but service and spares up there will quickly knock it off the list.

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Originally Posted by Kandisa

1. Your comment on the Sumo is very encouraging but unfortunately TATA will never make a note of it. 2. Some of the complaints about lack of low-end torque are applicable for the THAR as well. 3. What is your take on the performance of the MDI3200 powered Bolero 4x4 in case you had chance to drive the same in similar terrains.

Dear Kandisa - my replies to your 3 statements above are as follows:

1. Completely incorrect. .
2. Thar weighs 275 kg < Scorpio so the power to weight ratio slightly is advantageous for Thar, compared on like to like basis. Driveline numericals are same in both vehicles.
3. 3.73:1 axle ratio required to satisfy the Satan (CMVR) spoils everything. See the performance of Great Escape backup vehicles, you will find the difference, they do not have 3.73:1 axle ratio.

Dear Eric - lovely photographs, excellent information, completely true and every single thing that you have pointed out is known for a long time, so thanks!

Dear all - in view of very good alternate available now, I hope target customers will take their own correct decisions on the product to buy. .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[fine69]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear all - in view of very good alternate available now, I hope target customers will take their own correct decisions on the product to buy. .

I didn't get the memo on the "very good" alternate available, what's the alternate and is it already available?

[Kandisa]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Kandisa - my replies to your 3 statements above are as follows:

1. Completely incorrect. .

Sir, i couldn't be happier to be proven incorrect. However, there was nothing concrete barring one single demo vehicle showed in the last auto expo. And my PMs sent to you long ago have also not been answered. So the only request is, within your restrictions of commenting in the open forum and keeping your unique ambiguity intact, please answer whether the potential customers like us will have some good news before end of current financial year. A simple yes or no/ possibility in terms of percentage / any other recognizable response will be more than welcome.

... 3.73:1 axle ratio required to satisfy the Satan (CMVR) spoils everything. See the performance of Great Escape backup vehicles, you will find the difference, they do not have 3.73:1 axle ratio.

In fact i was often surprised to read about the Mahindra back up Bolero's performance as recovery vehicle in the MGEs.

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear all - in view of very good alternate available now, I hope target customers will take their own correct decisions on the product to buy. ...

I hope you are not referring to the Storme (possible upcoming LX 4x4 version). If it is about something which is going to come, then please give some assurance so that potential customers don't end up taking a wrong decision in the meanwhile and waste their hard earned money.

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Originally Posted by Kandisa

Please give some assurance so that potential customers don't end up taking a wrong decision in the meanwhile and waste their hard earned money.

Dear Kandisa - kya yaar! .

Dear all - (all means all) this clearly indicates that there is a distinct customer base in India, who has this latent desire to own a really good vehicle in this mainstream segment. .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[KrishD]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear all - (all means all) this clearly indicates that there is a distinct customer base in India, who has this latent desire to own a really good vehicle in this mainstream segment. .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Thanks for underlining and highlighting this noble thought. I really hope to see some action from the manufacturers aligned to this thought real soon. Amen!

[Kandisa]

Originally Posted by codelust

...This is one vehicle (though the LX version), that has been under consideration as a future upgrade. ..
....GT Karnal will howl in protest reading that sentence....
.....The price is the killer there. At 15L, a low odo reading Fortuner becomes a serious option, even at 18L........
.........The other option is a used Pajero, but service and spares up there will quickly knock it off the list.

I was feeling like someone else is penning down my thoughts! +100 to each of the statements.

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Kandisa - kya yaar! .

Sir

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Originally Posted by Kandisa

Sir

Dear Kandisa - I am not surprised, you also should not be frustrated, after all, life is all about having eternal hope! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[codelust]

Originally Posted by Kandisa

I was feeling like someone else is penning down my thoughts! +100 to each of the statements.

Those thoughts belong to people who love touring a lot into remote areas and are not way too well off :-)

We have needs that are different from the OTR crowd. Even from as close as NCR, the hills don't start for a good 250 odd kilometers in any direction. That is a good 5-6 hour drive in conditions that are vastly aided by creature comforts like AC and power steering and an ability to hold 100 KPH with brakes that will work and an engine that can keep going at that speed without straining itself or the driver.

Then there is the issue of reliability, maintenance cost and availability of spares. The first is a must-have and the second is good to have, third is absolutely essential.

And, most importantly, is what I called the minimum-towing-distance to a mechanic. In the higher Himalayas, this means getting back to Mandi, Rampur/Peo, Roorkee etc to get the vehicle fixed. If you have to drag it all the way back to a Chandigarh or Delhi, the benefits of owning any vehicle with that as a factor takes a hit.

Lastly, a point that most new vehicles seem to miss -- a 60 liter fuel tank is a minimum.

All those reasons converge into hesitation to give up my 13-year-old Gypsy. It is mechanically simple, can be fixed even in Spiti and is incredibly cheap to run, which translates into even more tours into remote areas.

The move to a Scorpio LX 4x4 is, from that perspective, is the kind of ideal upgrade. Not because it is the greatest or the most comfortable choice out there, but it can address most of the points above.

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Kandisa - I am not surprised, you also should not be frustrated, after all, life is all about having eternal hope! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

I hope it does not wind up becoming something like the famed 'achhe din' promise of out times. Over promise and under deliver!

[COUGAR]

Originally Posted by codelust

All those reasons converge into hesitation to give up my 13-year-old Gypsy. It is mechanically simple, can be fixed even in Spiti and is incredibly cheap to run, which translates into even more tours into remote areas.

The move to a Scorpio LX 4x4 is, from that perspective, is the kind of ideal upgrade. Not because it is the greatest or the most comfortable choice out there, but it can address most of the points above.

as a Gypsy tourer myself whole heartedly agree with your comment.

I started thinking about a "growth" upgrade after a trip to Aut in a VLX 2WD. It has everything the Gypsy lacks - comfort, power steering, twin AC, cavernous cabin with possibilities for night camping, heater etc etc. I had doubts about the AT- but i love it now!

I TD-ed the Scorpio and on prodding from some of the TBHP junta, the Safari Storme as well. I found the Mahindra staff more customer friendly overall. The Tata dealership fellows still behave as though they are selling trucks.

One comment from the fellow at the dealers took me by surprise. He mentioned that since I intend to go to Ladakh etc, I should consider the Manual Transmission 4WD which AFAIK is still the old 2.6CRDe engine? He said the old AT lubrication fluid is being withdrawn as it is not suitable for high altitudes and the new AT fluid imported from Austria/Australia is still undergoing testing. Is this true?

Is the Manual Transmission/4WD combo available on the MHawk?

[Kandisa]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Kandisa - I am not surprised, you also should not be frustrated, after all, life is all about having eternal hope!

Yes i am definitely hopeful and that is the reason i am ready to wait, but the waiting period couldn't be eternal sir.

Originally Posted by codelust

Those thoughts belong to people who love touring a lot into remote areas and are not way too well off :-)

We have needs that are different from the OTR crowd.

Exactly and that is why a reliable 'softcore' offroader with a low range is more than enough. All your points are perfectly valid. Add the touring with family into the equation and the requirements look even so mandatory.

The move to a Scorpio LX 4x4 is, from that perspective, is the kind of ideal upgrade. Not because it is the greatest or the most comfortable choice out there, but it can address most of the points above.

BD sir, even you know more than us, finally most of the prospective people will end up buying this even after knowing the usual hiccups one has to live with, simply because there is no option.

Originally Posted by COUGAR

...The Tata dealership fellows still behave as though they are selling trucks.

Have to agree on this to good extent.

.... I should consider the Manual Transmission 4WD which AFAIK is still the old 2.6CRDe engine?
...Is the Manual Transmission/4WD combo available on the MHawk?

Negative for both. One inherent bottleneck of the 4wd scorpios have always been the electronic 4x4 mechanism. The only manual 4wd option is Bolero LX (BS-III) apart from THAR,Gypsy & Gurkha on this side of 10 Lacs.

[COUGAR]

Originally Posted by Kandisa

Negative for both. One inherent bottleneck of the 4wd scorpios have always been the electronic 4x4 mechanism. The only manual 4wd option is Bolero LX (BS-III) apart from THAR,Gypsy & Gurkha on this side of 10 Lacs.

What I meant was Manual 5-speed transmission with Electronic 4WD. I saw a 2011 model Scorpio Getaway with this setup but it had the CRDe engine not MHawk.

If the dealer was right about AT Fluid having an issue at higher altitudes, then perhaps Mahindra should have this Manual 5 speed with Elec 4WD option with the MHawk?

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by COUGAR

What I meant was Manual 5-speed transmission with Electronic 4WD. I saw a 2011 model Scorpio Getaway with this setup but it had the CRDe engine not MHawk.

If the dealer was right about AT Fluid having an issue at higher altitudes, then perhaps Mahindra should have this Manual 5 speed with Elec 4WD option with the MHawk?

Yes, Mahindra does sell the scorpio 4WD with manual tranny.

[Kandisa]

Originally Posted by COUGAR

What I meant was Manual 5-speed transmission with Electronic 4WD..

Extremely sorry for not going through your post properly. Yes that option is very much there in mhawk and it was in 2.6 as well. In fact, except one or two i guess most of the Scorpio 4wd owners in the forum have the model with manual transmission only.

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Yes, Mahindra does sell the scorpio 4WD with manual tranny.

[madhkris]

Originally Posted by COUGAR

What I meant was Manual 5-speed transmission with Electronic 4WD. I saw a 2011 model Scorpio Getaway with this setup but it had the CRDe engine not MHawk.

If the dealer was right about AT Fluid having an issue at higher altitudes, then perhaps Mahindra should have this Manual 5 speed with Elec 4WD option with the MHawk?

Yes the Mhawk Scorpio is available in MT amd electronic shift 4wd and I have purchased one 2 months ago.