[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by psurelia

Dear Anshuman and Tanveer, with due respect to your extensive experience and contributions, I have to say that there are still some roads like Sandakphu that you have to experience to believe the magnitude of the challenges they throw at you. It takes something more than technology and skills to conquer such roads - it takes sheer grit along with all other things that each one have mentioned on this thread. Every word in Anirban's (1100D) explanation here is true if not understatement. Therefore, I would suggest you guys should definitely take his offer since "the man" (who has done it number of time) himself has offered his company

Originally Posted by himadrimondal

Just for the information sake, they have all tried. The 2WD Boleros, Tata Spacio and what not and have all landed flat on their face. .

2WD bolero or Safari etc., suffer from traction issues. That is why I said AWD is needed.
On the loose sandy hairpins, any 2WD with open diff will lose traction.
In India typically you have 2WD or part time 4WD vehicles. Thar, scorpio 4x4 have all done it. So unless there are sections which require underbody hits(which ladder on frame can take), why shouldn't other AWDs be able to do it?

Originally Posted by akshay4587

Now that you have done ladakh extensively, and driven the Duster AWD as well.
What do you think about, Short cuts at Barlacha La/Gata Loops/Tanglang la, can a Duster AWD, do them without any stress?

Yes, the sandy sections very easy. But the rocky Baralacha La shortcut had sections where underbody hit was a risk. Duster has a delicate underbody as compared to traditional ladder on frame construction.

[BlackPearl]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Okay, I may be the party pooper here, but I feel that Sandakphu is too overrated. In the time of low power DI engines without turbo power, most vehicles struggled, and hence a legend was born
Now, with powerful engines, and AWD, even something like a Yeti or a CRV will do that from the videos I have seen.
Technology has won this war and a narrow hilly road with reasonable traction is not really much of a challenge, esp for smaller vehicles with a tiny turning radius. You just need an AWD for the traction, and enough power to climb the incline. That's it.

Its like the Manali Leh highway. There are legends about the tough terrain etc., etc., but seriously, any high GC vehicle can do it. Even sedans do it with skilled driver. If Sandakphu was on regular tourist circuits, we may have seen 2WD high GC vehicles also reaching like we see on Manali Leh highway.

To maintain the high standards of team-bhp I should report this post to moderator as there should not be any misleading information on team bhp. If after reading this post somebody tries to do the stretch in a high GC 2WD sedan and gets killed in the process, team bhp should not be held responsible for giving incorrect information.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by BlackPearl

To maintain the high standards of team-bhp I should report this post to moderator as there should not be any misleading information on team bhp. If after reading this post somebody tries to do the stretch in a high GC 2WD sedan and gets killed in the process, team bhp should not be held responsible for giving incorrect information.

Please read my post. I have clearly said any AWD can do it.
Here is what I wrote

Technology has won this war and a narrow hilly road with reasonable traction is not really much of a challenge, esp for smaller vehicles with a tiny turning radius. You just need an AWD for the traction, and enough power to climb the incline. That's it.

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by BlackPearl

Having been to Sandakphu several times...

Originally Posted by 1100D

I have been saying this...

Quick question to both of you veterans of Sandakphu:

Can you do the Sandakphu drive all the way without engaging 4L 1st and 2nd gears in your respective cars?

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

Quick question to both of you veterans of Sandakphu:

Can you do the Sandakphu drive all the way without engaging 4L 1st and 2nd gears in your respective cars?

Finally somebody is asking the correct question. If you require gearing shorter than 1st gear, you need an AWD with short enough gearing(Duster?) or enough low end torque at very low RPMs.

[BlackPearl]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Please read my post. I have clearly said any AWD can do it.
Here is what I wrote

Technology has won this war and a narrow hilly road with reasonable traction is not really much of a challenge, esp for smaller vehicles with a tiny turning radius. You just need an AWD for the traction, and enough power to climb the incline. That's it.

Tanveer, I was referring to this line "If Sandakphu was on regular tourist circuits, we may have seen 2WD high GC vehicles also reaching"

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

Quick question to both of you veterans of Sandakphu:

Can you do the Sandakphu drive all the way without engaging 4L 1st and 2nd gears in your respective cars?

No Shamindra Da, Bolero does not climb those slopes after Kalapokhri without 4L 1st and 2nd.

[XetaGLGRocks]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

If Sandakphu was on regular tourist circuits, we may have seen 2WD high GC vehicles also reaching like we see on Manali Leh highway.

@tsk1979 - with all due regards, with all that huge experience of offroading in places where no man has gone before, isn't this a bit overstretched in terms of being a practical statement. A 2WD with high ground clearance in Sandakhphu?? So are we pointing at possibly a SX4?

Jokes apart, Sandakhphu in my opinion is one of the toughest trails, no puns intended, and let us give it it due respect as well as respect anyone who has conquered that with a car.

[himadrimondal]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

If Sandakphu was on regular tourist circuits, we may have seen 2WD high GC vehicles also reaching like we see on Manali Leh highway.

Dear TSK, you are on wrong footing here. Even reversing 20 feet on these treacherous slopes can be suicidal. Hope no one takes your comments seriously to make an attempt.

[akshay4587]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Finally somebody is asking the correct question. If you require gearing shorter than 1st gear, you need an AWD with short enough gearing(Duster?) or enough low end torque at very low RPMs.

How short is the first gear on a Duster AWD, the first two ratio's in Thar's Low ratio are extremely short,
pretty sure, it cant be that short ratio in the duster.

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Finally somebody is asking the correct question. If you require gearing shorter than 1st gear, you need an AWD with short enough gearing(Duster?) or enough low end torque at very low RPMs.

Is the Duster's 1st gear anywhere close to the Bolero / Scorpio's 1L or 2L? I'd think not, going by the specs, even including a bigger final drive ratio.

Low end torque = how low?

Originally Posted by BlackPearl

...Bolero does not climb those slopes after Kalapokhri without 4L 1st and 2nd.

Does the Scorpio? 1100D?

[psurelia]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Now, with powerful engines, and AWD, even something like a Yeti or a CRV will do that from the videos I have seen.

Just noticed this one! Kidding me!!! It's like saying I have become a Kung Fu master because I watched all of Jackie Chan movies

[Turbanator]

Coming back to the topic of Duster AWD and Sandakphu, to find out what happened next, check out this video

could not find this video - is it like ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi2r9Yfj5Ho

We came to a general consensus that if the Duster was able to climb the slope after a midway halt, it would be able to scale Sandakphu. But before that, please watch this video where several 4WDs climbed the slopes of Sukno Pukur

I maybe wrong but isn't this something like changing gradient of treadmill in a Gym vs actual trek ? Have you factored drop in performance due to lack of oxygen / air at such heights ?

Just noticed this one! Kidding me!!! It's like saying I have become a Kung Fu master because I watched all of Jackie Chan movies

This is unnecessary personal comment probably , TSK has vast experience and has travelled to so many places including I believe M-La . Maybe he has not personally done this segment and guys at your place have a better idea on challenges but we must express our opinion as a family .

[JKDS]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Maybe he has not personally done this segment and guys at your place have a better idea on challenges but we must express our opinion as a family .

I'm with you on this point, but one-off comments like the initial one without personal or first hand experience or exposure to back it up is unwarranted from such a Senior and Respected member. We look up to him for his experience, and act accordingly too!

[psurelia]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Maybe he has not personally done this segment and guys at your place have a better idea on challenges but we must express our opinion as a family .

Dear Turbanator, You can read my post in all other threads and I am sure you'll not find anything like this in any other posts. Team-BHP is extensively moderated forum with well laid out rules. But what if a moderator goes against the very same rules furnishing irresponsibly unreal information based on fancy by watching some videos? Who is going to do policing on that? Having extensive experience does not entitle anyone to comment irresponsibly on a forum on which millions of people rely on for quality info.

And for your info, BHPian 1100D has driven to both M-La and Sandakphu and has honestly opined with his first hand information. All his expeditions are detailed on this very forum. I would like to request you to go through the relevant ones and hopefully you will understand why some of the BHPians are so very unhappy!

[khan_sultan]

While I haven't seen the track, so can make a guess at best and would say that yes a duster AWD can do it with help of traction control/electronics it has.

TC would help in moving the vehicle forward in low traction conditions -- including wheel in air. Admittedly, duster doesn't have good articulation and has open diffs, but traction control/electronics would help the vehicle move forward in most conditions. Have heard that 1st gear in duster AWD is pretty low and torque should not be an issue here.

Now, it could happen that a duster AWD does it with more perceived drama than say a 4WD with dedicated low range/locked diff. For example, on a turn up we could see duster lift wheel and spin for some time and make it look dramatic. On stop/go on a steep turn similar stuff could happen but climb a duster AWD will.

Have personally seen SUVs without dedicated low range or locked diffs do stuff using traction control that seems impossible. The stuff that electronics can do is really scary.

So would give duster AWD a benefit of doubt to scale this place.