[Sawyer]

I doubt it is much of anything other than Maruti having zero interest in whether you buy the car or you don't. The day the Armed Forces pull the plug on procurement is the day Maruti will pull the plug on the car, probably with some relief.

If the lack of a blue means you will not buy the Gypsy, Maruti couldn't care less.

[lifeoffroad]

Hi,

@cool_dube:

I feel your pain and just want to say, do not loose hope. I have personally seen cases where colors other than white have been delivered against Civil orders.

To answer your question, not sure about the present scenario, but in the past the color has been ordered by the Indian Navy. The order quantities have usually been small compared to those of the Army.

Also, believe me, it is not a question of whether Maruti can do it or not, It is just a huge mess of what they want to do. In comparison to their other products Gypsy is just a small insignificant spec. It is just a "Not bothered about it" situation.

@Vikram Arya:

Adding to what has already been said, I would like to say from personal experience that stock piling spares doesn't always help. In markets like India, find spares for discontinued vehicles is relatively easier, especially now with the globalization of the industry. One search on the good old "Google" would get you spares for stuff that has been discontinued for more than 15 years.

Also, anything with rubber based components has a shelf life and will definitely cause issues if used beyond it. Especially in case of gaskets and seals.

Relax.

Army is not gonna let the gypsy go anytime soon.

Regards,

L.o.R

[Vikram Arya]

Thank you all very much for your contributions; appreciate your feedback.

Maybe this is a case of overkill & or maybe I’m being a little paranoid; in any case the idea was to get a few spares that the local parts dealer may take forever to get when I need those. Most of these were supposed to be consumables that are required as a part of day to day running over a period of couple of years.

Originally Posted by GTO

This is complete overkill and absolutely not required. Why are you wasting time & money stocking up on parts for a car still in production?

1. You are guaranteed of Gypsy spare parts for the next 10 years at least. Considering that the Gypsy is still going to be in production for another couple of years, I'd probably expect parts to be available for 15 years, if not 20.

2. Some parts (especially those made of rubber) will age with time. I'd rather buy a fresh fan belt than one stored for 7 years.

I drive a 4x4 that's been out of production for 16 years, and still have no problem with the parts. Take it easy, buddy .

Maybe you’re referring to your Mahindra Classic however in case of Mahindras their various models share a number of parts across platforms, additionally different platform of Mahindra outsell Gypsy probably 500:1. In addition I am at a place where procuring even simple parts can be quite a task. I agree with you though on parts being available 10 to 15 years after model discontinuation. Thank you.



When I started this thread I knew it is going to be a contentious debate however the idea was to start a conversation around the long term maintenance challenges around Gypsy. Keep the dialogue on guys..

Many of you are probably using your Gypsy to commute, some for that weekend trip & a few others for doing some mild to serious off roading. I’m not referring to usage in a competitive scenario where the abuse/wear & tear that the vehicle might be subjected to is much more severe. During this time let’s say in 24 to 36 months of the ownership what would be some of the parts that would need replacement other than oil/air filter & spark plugs etc. What would be say for example service life of a clutch plate & suspension under normal usage by a normal driver? My understanding was that clutch plate of a Gypsy should last for 35 to 40,000 kms. Would that be a fair assumption? Again the variance on account of someone in the habit of riding a clutch need not be considered in this case.

Originally Posted by cool_dube

So Army orders (harvest) green, air force orders (Airforce) blue, government offices order white. Does anyone know which agency / organization orders (Dolphin) blue? Is it the Navy?

I am wondering what does it take to produce a vehicle in another color. I can understand that the number of Gypsy orders is very low and it makes perfect business sense to wait till a minimum number of orders is accumulated before the assembly lines are powered up! I am not asking them to produce my Gypsy as soon as my order is received. However, what beats me is that why so much hue and cry over the color?! Let's say the 'threshold' to start production is 100 (for the sake of argument) and of these 100, 98 are white/green and 2 are in other colors. If they are anyways prepping up paint booths for the whites and greens, can they not do so for these other colors as well. Is that so cost intensive?

Sorry about the rant here - hope you guys can understand my frustration! Maybe someone with better insight into the automobile production process can shed some light on this

I may have some information for you by the end of this week so don’t lose hope (this may not be drastically different than what has already been spoken on the subject). I understand your pain & would like to help if I can.

As for the process, I visited the Maruti plant in 1994 & that time the car bodies in the skeletal form with only body shell, hood, trunk & doors on a running line used to be taken into a large tank filled with electrostatic paint (to create a strong bond between the paint and the metal body parts) for a quick dip. Car painting technology has undergone sea change in last 22 years so I can’t say what is currently the process that is followed by Maruti. Many manufacturers utilize robots on a moving line that apply multiple base coats, a paint coat followed by a clear coat. In these type of set ups it is relatively easy to change the colour palette as there is no large dipping tank involved.

Usually if a particular coulor is offered on a number of different models it will not be problem however I noticed that Dolphin Blue colour is not offered on any of their model other than Gypsy. Now what that can hypothetically mean is that Maruti will have to wait for a minimum number of orders of a particular colour while a batch of Gypsys is being run & it become quite complex when you have seventeen models & possibly more than 100 variants demanding that crucial plant time on account of commercial considerations however as I said earlier hang in there.

[Sawyer]

If it makes you happy, by all means do your stockpiling thing - different strokes for different folk. Remember to route the stockpiled parts through the car every time you need to change one of them in routine service/use, and you should be ok because then the stockpiled parts will never get too old on you. But this is so obvious that I am sure you have considered doing this.

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by lifeoffroad

I feel your pain and just want to say, do not loose hope. I have personally seen cases where colors other than white have been delivered against Civil orders.

Originally Posted by Vikram Arya

I may have some information for you by the end of this week so don’t lose hope (this may not be drastically different than what has already been spoken on the subject). I understand your pain & would like to help if I can.

Thanks a ton for the encouragement, guys! I am definitely planning to hang on and see how this pans out.

[Fortuner71]

Originally Posted by cool_dube

Thanks a ton for the encouragement, guys! I am definitely planning to hang on and see how this pans out.

Hi ,

which dealer did you book the vehicle from ? is it 3 months waiting ? whats the booking amount , please share details . Iam planning to book one shortly in mysore .
I also heard Shibu ( Jeep captain ) saying you can get it within few weeks on the 4x4 India forum .

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by Fortuner71

Hi ,

which dealer did you book the vehicle from ? is it 3 months waiting ? whats the booking amount , please share details . Iam planning to book one shortly in mysore .
I also heard Shibu ( Jeep captain ) saying you can get it within few weeks on the 4x4 India forum .

Will PM you the details.

[antihero]

Dragging this discussion back on track. A gypsy is a reliable performer, unless you get a lemon and thats a pretty bleak possibility. Everything on the MG413 is available via MGP distributor in your city. In my city I need to sit with the person manning the computer at the MGP parts warehouse, find the right part, pay the amount in advance and I get the part in a week (max). It helps that I live in a city with a large army presence, but Simla is not that far from Pathankot (probably the nearest huge army cantonment). Consumables like filters, spark plugs, wipers are available with almost any transport areas that abound in any indian city. The clutch, if not abused will last over 1k kms. The engine, if not abused will last even more. I have been witness 3 gypsies in my household with a combined usage of over 7,00,000 kms in Himalayas and used for hunting and general bad roading and mechanical snags have been... zilch.
The only component that took me over a week to source was an aftermarket exhaust for the MG410W that I own now, because the only thing that was holding the old one together was rust. Found a manufacturer in Delhi that does exhausts, ordered and received one in 15 days.

I think any future proofing is overkill for the MG413, especially one that has done only 300 clicks. Drive it, use it and care for it as you would with any modern car.
Rust proofing, under body protection is not needed in the Himalayas. Only thing that helps is a garage. Keeps the paint prim and rubber parts from deteriorating in the cold.

The only mod a new gypsy needs is a change of tyres and you have already done that. I would recommend laying off any future purchases for consumables. Just my 2 paise.

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by antihero

The only mod a new gypsy needs is a change of tyres and you have already done that.

I agree; with the rider that this wants/needs thing is a very subjective thing. But I have to submit that my relaxed approach to keeping my Gypsy running well for many more years, even decades, into the future is based on the approach you advise. Start modifying the car with even things like power steering and AC, and then all bets are off. A lot of the Gypsy reliability is based on its simplicity which is why I did not want to muck around with after market activity, other than a tyre upgrade.

I also added a pair of extra lights because the OE headlight is pathetic and changing to a higher wattage of those bulbs will have the reflector damaged, is what I was advised here. The only part on the Gypsy that has failed - twice - in six years, not surprisingly, is the relay for the extra lights. Even my OE battery is still going strong, but I am sure I got a freak there!

[Vikram Arya]

Originally Posted by antihero

Dragging this discussion back on track. A gypsy is a reliable performer, unless you get a lemon and thats a pretty bleak possibility. Everything on the MG413 is available via MGP distributor in your city. In my city I need to sit with the person manning the computer at the MGP parts warehouse, find the right part, pay the amount in advance and I get the part in a week (max). It helps that I live in a city with a large army presence, but Simla is not that far from Pathankot (probably the nearest huge army cantonment). Consumables like filters, spark plugs, wipers are available with almost any transport areas that abound in any indian city. The clutch, if not abused will last over 1k kms. The engine, if not abused will last even more. I have been witness 3 gypsies in my household with a combined usage of over 7,00,000 kms in Himalayas and used for hunting and general bad roading and mechanical snags have been... zilch.
The only component that took me over a week to source was an aftermarket exhaust for the MG410W that I own now, because the only thing that was holding the old one together was rust. Found a manufacturer in Delhi that does exhausts, ordered and received one in 15 days.

I think any future proofing is overkill for the MG413, especially one that has done only 300 clicks. Drive it, use it and care for it as you would with any modern car.
Rust proofing, under body protection is not needed in the Himalayas. Only thing that helps is a garage. Keeps the paint prim and rubber parts from deteriorating in the cold.

The only mod a new gypsy needs is a change of tyres and you have already done that. I would recommend laying off any future purchases for consumables. Just my 2 paise.

Thank you for your feedback. We do have the Army Training Command in Shimla & Western Command Headquarters at Chandi Mandir which is approx. 100 kms so yes there is a large population of Gypsys. So I assume by corollary easy availability of spares.

While referring to service life of clutch I think you meant 100,000 kms & not 1,000 kms, right? Well that means I can forget about clutch plate for a few years at least. Whatever I have purchased so far can be consumed over a period of next couple of years easy. One of the attractions of buying stuff over here was the perceived/actual quality difference; the oil filters that I have got are Bosch ($6), manufactured in US, air filter is Wix, one of the better makes out there. NGK spark plugs were priced reasonably at Amazon; I paid $12 for a set of 4 which I think is a good deal.

Rest of the stuff I have not yet bought however I was seriously thinking of Bilstein shocks (mono tube design). I have read a lot of good reviews about them, these are supposed to improve the ride quality a lot. A couple of my friends who have these on their trucks swear by them. Bilstein is OEM supplier to a number of top European brands & is a big name in motor sport as well. I’m getting both front & rear shocks for US$ 400, they’re expansive but I think it will be a good investment in the long term. No lift is planned by the way, these will replace the stock shocks hopefully in next 12 to 18 months' time. I would like to know opinion of Gypsy gurus on these shocks.

Originally Posted by Sawyer

I agree; with the rider that this wants/needs thing is a very subjective thing. But I have to submit that my relaxed approach to keeping my Gypsy running well for many more years, even decades, into the future is based on the approach you advise. Start modifying the car with even things like power steering and AC, and then all bets are off. A lot of the Gypsy reliability is based on its simplicity which is why I did not want to muck around with after market activity, other than a tyre upgrade.

I also added a pair of extra lights because the OE headlight is pathetic and changing to a higher wattage of those bulbs will have the reflector damaged, is what I was advised here. The only part on the Gypsy that has failed - twice - in six years, not surprisingly, is the relay for the extra lights. Even my OE battery is still going strong, but I am sure I got a freak there!

As far as your opinion about keeping the car in a stock position is concerned I’m in total agreement. A lot of my friends suggested that I get alloys, snorkel, off road bumper etc. otherwise I risk giving an impression that it is a “sarkari” Gypsy but I resisted the temptation, changed my tires & stopped at that. I did invest in a good music system though. You need music especially on those long drives.

In regards to auxiliary light I have already invested in a pair of PIAA 520 Extreme White (to be mounted on the windshield) & a pair of IPF 968s (to be mounted on bumper). This vehicle will traverse the Himalayas primarily, many times in inclement weather conditions so lighting is important. And yes I did invest in a couple of extra relays & inline fuse.

As far as air-conditioning & power steering is concerned these modifications were never even considered. As you said rightly, the beauty of Gypsy is in its simplicity & I plan to keep it that way.

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

I added a pair of extra lights because the OE headlight is pathetic and changing to a higher wattage of those bulbs will have the reflector damaged, is what I was advised here.

Dear Sawyer - gypsy has 7" diameter round headlamps. As long as the lens is of glass, you can use higher wattage bulbs. Please see the complete information that I have provided on page 60 of the "Automotive Lighting" thread on this forum. Implement it, you will be delighted with the result. I have mentioned Bosch relays there, you may also use Philips. Don't use anything altu-faltu. .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by antihero

Dragging this discussion back on track

Thanks antihero. Vikram - I apologize for going tangential to the theme of this thread.

Originally Posted by Vikram Arya

I did invest in a good music system though. You need music especially on those long drives.

I am planning to do the same. Can you please share some details around the fitment viz. location of head unit as well as speakers?

[antihero]

Yes I did mean 1,00,000 Kms. Though in all eventuality with a bit of careful driving you can make it last twice this mileage and maybe even more.

I am not denying the 'preceived/actual' quality difference between 'proper' spares and what we get here in India. Spares you mention will be made to tighter tolerances and subject to better quality control. Nevertheless, the Gypsy has been running in the subcontinent on MGP spares for decades now. Its been tested, abused and has redeemed itself in much less than ideal conditions. Bad drivers, rough terrain, poor technical knowhow (think army and MT workshop maintenance). Why would it give up when ran on a less demanding terrain by a better driver who cares about his vehicle and understands the nature of the beast?

Everyone who has owned the original MG410 will remember the never-ending debates we have had over perceived quality of Suzuki Genuine Parts (SGP) vs Maruti Genuine Parts (MGP) when Maruti made a shift to parts made in India. We hoarded SGP parts at that time only to realise that while MGP were not the best, they were cheap and got the job done. Yes they may not have been the same perceived quality but in real world scenario the differences were negligible. Over time we might still lust for SGP spares but MGP has got the job done.

@Sawyer is right when he says that

wants/needs thing is a very subjective thing

I love the lights you have, but do I really 'need' them in a Himalayan scenario. 'No'. Normal Dhabhar Behram lights with good old yellow 2700k 100/90 bulbs are more then sufficient for trudging at 60 mph on a mountain road. If there is fog or rain, I slow down

On Bilestein shocks. What advantages do you perceive this will give your vehicle? You are still running on 1970s cast iron leaf spring suspension. The dampening as I understand it will not make a remarkable difference in ride quality. The monotube is theoretically technologically superior but will it make a difference in a real world scenario. I am sceptical. I am not trying to dissuade you from 'wanting' or buying all the gear that you might enjoy. Nevertheless, whether you will actually 'need' it in the Indian Himalayas is debatable.

There is nothing wrong with a “sarkari” Gypsy image. I am not an off roader and I perceive neither are you. The plain jane Gypsy does bad road with aplomb. My 'sarkari' Gypsy gets priority at almost every Police / Toll / BRO / Army checkpost / roadblock without making an effort. I am not complaining.


In Spiti. No mods, not even a carb adjustment.

P.S. interesting Bilestein factoid: Mercedes became the first auto manufacturer to install mono-tube shocks as standard equipment on some of their cars starting in 1958, manufactured by Bilstein. Because the design was patented, no other manufacturer could use it until 1971 when the patent expired.

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

As long as the lens is of glass, you can use higher wattage bulbs.

I have mentioned Bosch relays there, you may also use Philips. Don't use anything altu-faltu. .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Behram, I suspect that the reflector isn't made of glass and it can prematurely blacken using 100/90 watts bulbs - or so I was advised here. I bought Hella lights and a Hella relay. It failed after a while, and the lights stopped. Relay changed, not a big deal, and the lights worked again. The lights themselves continue work flawlessly when needed on country roads, and no bulb changes needed thus far.

[starter]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

Behram, I suspect that the reflector isn't made of glass and it can prematurely blacken using 100/90 watts bulbs - or so I was advised here. I bought Hella lights and a Hella relay. It failed after a while, and the lights stopped. Relay changed, not a big deal, and the lights worked again. The lights themselves continue work flawlessly when needed on country roads, and no bulb changes needed thus far.

Dear Sawyer,
You could always switch to the old maruti van headlights.
They are available new as MGP and costed < 1000 Rs for a pair.
They are made of glass and you could switch to 100/90 or even 130/110.
The only downside is you lose the headlight leveling from within the cabin.
Cheers,
Deepak