[Vikram Arya]

Greetings fellow Gypsy lovers!

Our breed seems to be on the decline as I see no new thread or new discussion on the old threads on our beloved vehicle so I have decided to stir up the calm waters & initiate a fresh thread that might be useful for a few of us out there who are keen to future proof our Gypsys.

I have acquired a 2016 Gypsy King earlier this year & it is currently parked at a secure parking for now. The vehicle has clocked 750 kms so far & I hope to take it for some long journeys primarily to Northern mountainous areas in December when I travel back home.

As Gypsy enters into 31st year of its production one aspect that is worrying me is the potential paucity of spare parts if it were to go out of production in near future (I know it is disheartening but it will eventually happen in next few years). Now this may not have any importance for the vast majority of the car owning population out there for whom Gypsy belongs to the bygone era however for a few of us who continue to indulge in this sweet love affair it is a matter of great concern.

I’m very well aware that Army had placed an order for 2,071 Gypsys in July last year & it will obligatory upon MUL to keep the spare parts available at least for the foreseeable future; what troubles me is the perpetual unavailability of parts at MUL’s dealerships as well as parts stockists/wholesalers. I do understand that they would like to stock stuff that is fast moving and that means parts/consumables for vehicles such as Also, Swift, Ritz, Wagon R, Baleno etc. I also frequently read stories as to how the part shops that specialize in Gypsy spares are finding it difficult to source them (this could possibly be exceptions I hope).

I have also come across a couple of reasonably good websites in India that deal in spare parts however the parts description on these sites is very rudimentary & most of the time it is not clear if a particular part is meant for the MG 410, MG 410 W, MG 413 W (Carb) or MG 413W (EFI). I would request users to share their experiences on these websites as well. Here in North America the online revolution has swept the spare parts markets in such a way that you can practically put together an entire vehicle by purchasing the individual parts including engines, gear boxes, body shells etc. There is a plethora of website that will sell you practically any spare part for a vehicle that was manufactured in last 50 years. And then there are specialized web based stores such as Low range off road & Rocky Road that specialize in Suzuki Samurai that was sold in North American market till 1995. Many of the manufacturers such as GM sell brand new boxed engines that are available for purchase to anyone who is interested. I think in India we have some way to go before we get there.

Then there are stories of people who get duped by an unscrupulous operator because they needed to buy a spare in a hurry and they ended up buying whatever was available at a nearby store.

View above I plan to procure a certain amount of spares & keep these in my treasure trove when a need arises in future. Now I may sound paranoid but I would like to err on the side of caution. I do understand that I may/will need some spares that I do not have in stock & may very well not need the one that have procured.

Nevertheless I have already started the process & have ordered a few spares from Amazon (these were for the SJ-413 that was marketed here till 1995 but both are essentially the same vehicles barring the short wheelbase, electronic fuel injection and some other minor differences).

So far I have bought:
Oil filters: Bosch 3330 – 10
Spark plugs: NGK BKR6EGP – 8
Air filter: Wix 46235 – 2
Wiper blades: RainX 12” – 2 pairs

I’m also contemplating to procure the following:
Clutch plate assembly – 1
Sparkplug wires – NGK SE 76 – 1 set
Front & rear shocks – Bilstein – 1 complete set
Steering stabilizer – 1
Clutch, accelerator, hood release – 1 cable set each
Fab belt - 1

I would like to mention here that I do not plan to use my Gypsy for any off roading but only use it as my primary mode of travel when I go out into the mountains for camping/hiking or generally getting away from the civilization (if I have to drive on a road less traveled in my pursuit that qualifies as mild off roading then it is fine of course; that’s why I bought a Gypsy in the first place). I plan to do majority of work on the vehicle myself as my opinion of the MASS/dealer workshops is not stellar.

I would like to call upon the experienced Gypsy owners (current/past) to provide their guidance as to what else can I (and others like me) procure so as to future proof our Gypsy to a certain extent. Any other views on this topic that can contribute towards keeping our Gypsy in a good shape including the divergent ones are also welcome.

Let’s have a conversation fellas…

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by Vikram Arya

Greetings fellow Gypsy lovers!

Our breed seems to be on the decline as I see no new thread or new discussion on the old threads on our beloved vehicle so I have decided to stir up the calm waters & initiate a fresh thread that might be useful for a few of us out there who are keen to future proof our Gypsys.

I have acquired a 2016 Gypsy King earlier this year & it is currently parked at a secure parking for now. The vehicle has clocked 750 kms so far & I hope to take it for some long journeys primarily to Northern mountainous areas in December when I travel back home.

Good Morning Vikram, and congratulations on your latest acquisition. I am delighted to see someone sharing such a concern, which has been haunting me for the past couple of years. I apologize that this post of mine will be a long one, so kindly bear with me.

As Gypsy enters into 31st year of its production one aspect that is worrying me is the potential paucity of spare parts if it were to go out of production in near future (I know it is disheartening but it will eventually happen in next few years).

Maruti would have discontinued the iconic Gypsy long time back, if the army and other forces hadn't patronised it.

This article on MensXP makes for an interesting read- Click to open

From very authentic sources both in MSIL and in Army, I have concluded a few points-

1. Maruti is manufacturing Gypsy only because the Army mandates it to do so. Army hasn't found a worthy replacement of the Gypsy yet, and in national interest, Maruti has to keep the model alive, till there is demand.

2. Maruti can't make any significant updates to the mechanicals of the car, as it will again require comprehensive testing at Army's end. They have in a way forbidden Maruti to make any significant changes, and that is the only reason why the Gypsy still sells with the OLD Maruti badge on its grill. Now don't get me wrong, Maruti can make changes to the cars it sells to civilians, but since that is quite low for a mass market player like Maruti, they have kept the Gypsy virtually unchanged.

what troubles me is the perpetual unavailability of parts at MUL’s dealerships as well as parts stockists/wholesalers. I do understand that they would like to stock stuff that is fast moving and that means parts/consumables for vehicles such as Also, Swift, Ritz, Wagon R, Baleno etc. I also frequently read stories as to how the part shops that specialize in Gypsy spares are finding it difficult to source them (this could possibly be exceptions I hope).

This should be the least of your worries Sir. There is spare shortage at dealership end because they don't wish to order it. Its as simple as that. Forget the Gypsy, they are so profit oriented that the not-so-common spares of cars like Swift are not to be found with them. And its them who spread such rumours that this spare won't be available/orderable SAAR.!!

The best way to deal with such inefficient idiots is to follow these rules to the T-

1. Locate your MGP distributor.
2. If possible, approach its owner/person incharge and befriend them.
3. Get yourself a parts manual. For the Gypsy, the part number is-

99000M24120-260====PARTS CATLOGUE,GYPSY1.3LIT(RHD)==Rs. 223.21
99000M24120-261====PART CATALOGUE(GYPSY-ARMY EXCL)==Rs. 264.65

These manuals are ordered the same way the normal spares are ordered. All replies like Manuals are only for MASS is plain BS!!

4. Look for the spares and order them against advance.

I have provided spares manual for Army spec gypsy for those who are extra-inquisitive among us.

Using these steps, I have sourced cosmetic parts from MGP for a 1986 M800. So definitely getting spares for Gypsy is possible.

View above I plan to procure a certain amount of spares & keep these in my treasure trove when a need arises in future. Now I may sound paranoid but I would like to err on the side of caution. I do understand that I may/will need some spares that I do not have in stock & may very well not need the one that have procured.

Nevertheless I have already started the process & have ordered a few spares from Amazon (these were for the SJ-413 that was marketed here till 1995 but both are essentially the same vehicles barring the short wheelbase, electronic fuel injection and some other minor differences).

Assuming that the Gypsy gets discontinued today, the major spares and mechanicals will easily be available for 10 years and more. You don't have to worry about the engine as it was shared with the Esteem and the Swift. Body panels will be available for atleast 10 years, so you have that much time to collect the infamous ones.

The parts whose availability will be affected post discontinuation will be cosmetic items, like grill, anti rattle cushions, clips, holders etc. These are ultra cheap, but it is these parts which make all the difference in the long run. Your Gypsy will still work flawlessly, but that missing grommet will make the ownership experience a bit hard. So start stocking them.

From my experience with Maruti, one of the reasons for their easy availability of spares is because of the part sharing they do. This results in easy maintenance of inventory. 90% of those grommets and stuff will be shared with other Maruti-its the 10% you have to target.

How do I know all this- I happen to own a 2000 Model M800 5 Speed, which in itself is one of the rarest breeds. That's how I have managed to maintain it in the best shape possible.

Click to Open

Posting a few pictures to rest my case-

















Now I have 12 cupboards full of such small, yet significant spares.

Regards,
Shashi


PS: I will also be getting a Gypsy by the end of this year.!!

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by Vikram Arya

Oil filters: Bosch 3330 – 10
Spark plugs: NGK BKR6EGP – 8
Air filter: Wix 46235 – 2
Wiper blades: RainX 12” – 2 pairs

With respect, I think these kind of parts will be available for a very long time.

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

The parts whose availability will be affected post discontinuation will be cosmetic items, like grill, anti rattle cushions, clips, holders etc. These are ultra cheap, but it is these parts which make all the difference in the long run. Your Gypsy will still work flawlessly, but that missing grommet will make the ownership experience a bit hard. So start stocking them.


Now I have 12 cupboards full of such small, yet significant spares.

I agree; but jugaad rules! I am sure Indian ingenuity will find answers to these niggles as and when they arise.
I have no plans to fill cupboards with things that I will never find when I need them!

Good luck to both of you; I am merely pointing out the reason why I am quite relaxed about how my Gypsy will still be on the road a decade from now.

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Dear Vikram and Shashi - I happen to know this (don't ask how). They will continue to manufacture and sell against specific orders and only in white color for civilian application, but they will not do any further development work on it except bare minimum required to meet CMVR. I think it is a very sensible executive decision.

By the way, I had booked my Gypsy in 1983. I had opted for green color. When my order materialized in 1986, the dealer sent me a letter telling me to pay 1 lakh 13 thousand rupees and take the vehicle. I reluctantly cancelled the order, as I just did not have the money. If I had bought it, I would still be owning it with the original MFC number (Bombay registration) and all Japanese parts!

I have driven it quite sparingly and also seen its performance in the rallies. It's a wonderful vehicle.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[Vikram Arya]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

Good Morning Vikram, and congratulations on your latest acquisition. I am delighted to see someone sharing such a concern, which has been haunting me for the past couple of years. I apologize that this post of mine will be a long one, so kindly bear with me.

Maruti would have discontinued the iconic Gypsy long time back, if the army and other forces hadn't patronised it.

This article on MensXP makes for an interesting read- Click to open

From very authentic sources both in MSIL and in Army, I have concluded a few points-

1. Maruti is manufacturing Gypsy only because the Army mandates it to do so. Army hasn't found a worthy replacement of the Gypsy yet, and in national interest, Maruti has to keep the model alive, till there is demand.

2. Maruti can't make any significant updates to the mechanicals of the car, as it will again require comprehensive testing at Army's end. They have in a way forbidden Maruti to make any significant changes, and that is the only reason why the Gypsy still sells with the OLD Maruti badge on its grill. Now don't get me wrong, Maruti can make changes to the cars it sells to civilians, but since that is quite low for a mass market player like Maruti, they have kept the Gypsy virtually unchanged.


PS: I will also be getting a Gypsy by the end of this year.!!

Thank you Shashi for a detailed note, I loved reading it.

The insight that you’ve provided is very valuable indeed. It is heartening to note that there are others out there who would like to keep their vehicles in pristine condition & would go to any lengths to do so. The ownership thread that you’ve written painstakingly for your M-800 is a marvelous. I also owned a 1999 M-800 back in the days & it brought back sweet old memories.

You’re right in saying that the spares will typically be made available for at least 10 years after discontinuation of a model. It is a standard practice all over the world. I have dealt with OEMs such as GM, Chrysler, Suzuki, Mercedes & Ferrari in one of my earlier roles & it is the after sales service and spare part sales of their dealerships that are actually keeping these outlets in the black as margins on new car sales have virtually evaporated. Spare parts part sales contribute heavily towards maintaining the bottom-line of the car dealerships everywhere.

Thank you very much for providing the part numbers of the parts catalogues; this is the first thing I plan to do on my next trip.

Lastly heartiest congratulations for deciding to go for the Gypsy! Welcome to the club.

Originally Posted by Sawyer

With respect, I think these kind of parts will be available for a very long time.


I agree; but jugaad rules! I am sure Indian ingenuity will find answers to these niggles as and when they arise.
I have no plans to fill cupboards with things that I will never find when I need them!

Good luck to both of you; I am merely pointing out the reason why I am quite relaxed about how my Gypsy will still be on the road a decade from now.

Sawyer you’re probably right regarding Indian ingenuity however I have always maintained my vehicles very diligently and would like to use the appropriate part as much as possible.

I do understand that it is not possible to stock all the consumables but I would like to keep a few that I will eventually be requiring over a period of next couple of years. I have noticed your contribution on various threads & you write quite passionately and in great detail about Gypsy so I have absolutely no doubt that your Gypsy will be on the road for many years to come and we would continue to get the privilege to read your pieces on anything to do with our beloved SUV.

Thank you.

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Vikram and Shashi - I happen to know this (don't ask how). They will continue to manufacture and sell against specific orders and only in white color for civilian application, but they will not do any further development work on it except bare minimum required to meet CMVR. I think it is a very sensible executive decision.

By the way, I had booked my Gypsy in 1983. I had opted for green color. When my order materialized in 1986, the dealer sent me a letter telling me to pay 1 lakh 13 thousand rupees and take the vehicle. I reluctantly cancelled the order, as I just did not have the money. If I had bought it, I would still be owning it with the original MFC number (Bombay registration) and all Japanese parts!

I have driven it quite sparingly and also seen its performance in the rallies. It's a wonderful vehicle.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Dear Mr. Behram Dhabhar,

Thank you for the confirmation that Gypsy will indeed be in production for many years; I can breathe easy.

I was a Marshal in 1990 Himalayan Rally & have watched Gypsys in action since. My dad had one (MG 410W) back in 90s as one of his staff cars. I had a chance to drive a few over the years & my fascination continued to grow. I can safely say that one litre engine in the older gen Gypsy had a much better low end torque; 1.3 ltr is more peaky but definitely has more grunt at the top after 3,500-4,000 rpm.

When I started working in 96 I always wanted one but never had enough money. When I could save enough to buy a car I could barely a get an AC M-800 & that was a big deal back then. Every Time I would see a Gypsy go by my heart would yearn for it but the vagaries of life demanded that I bury that desire in the deep recesses of my heart.

I have owned several cars over the years including a Dodge Charger with 5.7 ltr Hemi V-8 but I can tell you that the amount of excitement & satisfaction that I got when I took the delivery of the Gypsy was unmatchable. I plan to keep it for long time & would be looking to contributors such as yourself on this forum keep the flame alive. Sometimes I surf the web (other than this forum) to look for articles on the Gypsy but sadly the medium was not around when Gypsy was in vogue. The idea behind this thread was to start a conversation around long term maintenance of the vehicle.

Regards.

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Originally Posted by Vikram Arya

Dear Mr. Behram Dhabhar,, thank you for the confirmation that Gypsy will indeed be in production for many years; I can breathe easy. The idea behind this thread was to start a conversation around long term maintenance of the vehicle. Regards.

Dear Vikram - please let me clarify that I am nobody to confirm or deny what will or will not be in production. I just shared what I knew. That said, the Gypsy is basically the longer wheelbase Suzuki Jimny. As with any basic Japanese design philosophy, factor of safety and reliability are given. They are perfect in whatever they do. We have seen umpteen examples, that's why they took the India market and they continue to take it again and again. So, if you don't do anything silly with it, any Japanese vehicle should work forever. As you want a discussion on the way forward, list all the major aggregates, write down the names of the sub-parts of each of these aggregates and then write down what can go wrong with each part. Remember, this is going to be very interesting but extremely challenging also, you'll be surprised at what all you'll write and you will only be able to write this when you go through the experience, and that's the perfect Japanese way of working! In "today's scenario", I document this in my mind, because "open" command can open an excel file, but "open" command still cannot read the analytical recesses of the human mind! .

Go for it and ENJOY! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

They will continue to manufacture and sell against specific orders and only in white color for civilian application

Dear Behram Sir - are you saying that a civilian order in any color other than white will not be honored? I ask this because I have placed an order for a King ST in Dolphin Blue about 1.5 months back. No ETA yet from the dealer on delivery :( He did mention, though, that my chances of getting a white within 2-3 weeks are quite high.

Originally Posted by Vikram Arya

I would like to call upon the experienced Gypsy owners (current/past) to provide their guidance as to what else can I (and others like me) procure so as to future proof our Gypsy to a certain extent.

Dear Vikram - good discussion, thanks for initiating it. I guess you will remember that I had a '98 model King carb till about a month back and I was on the verge of getting it completely overhauled, before I took the decision to sell it and procure a brand new MPFI King. In my conversations with the dealer around procuring spares for completely redoing the interiors, I learned that all spare parts are very much available and being manufactured. As Shashi pointed out, dealers do not stock them only due to the close-to-nil demand. As a matter of fact, I had placed an order for each and every part inside the cabin (dashboard, seats, gear levers/knobs, vents, etc. etc.) as well as a new clutch assembly and soft top. The dealer was very confident that I will get these within 15-20 days but I was required to pay Rs. 5,000 as an advance upfront before the order was placed. This was to ensure that I did not ditch them after placing the order, as it would be "dead inventory" for them if I did not pick it up. That I eventually canceled the order (and just in time too, before it could be dispatched) because I ordered a new Gypsy, is a different story altogether Takeaway is that spare parts are, and will be, available for the foreseeable future, just that procurement might take time.

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Originally Posted by cool_dube

[b]Dear Behram Sir, are you saying that a civilian order in any color other than white will not be honored?

Dear Cool-dube - I never said that, I just shared what I know, please. Don't ask me how I know!

Knowing "how these things work", you'll be lucky if you get a white one also. For you, it may just be blue v/s white, for "them" it is Ramayana + Mahabharata + Upanishad all rolled into one, raised to the power of "n", simultaneously evolving endless possibilities of how something cannot and should not be delivered! Now don't ask me the meaning of all this gobbledegook jargon, I've never quite figured it out myself, and I have no inclination of doing so, hahaha! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Knowing "how these things work", you'll be lucky if you get a white one also.

Now you are scaring me Should I just settle for a white one, while I still can?

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by cool_dube

Now you are scaring me Should I just settle for a white one, while I still can?

Dear Sir, not discouraging you, buy probably I have already made you aware in the other thread of what my dealer said. According to them, even if they place an order for say a silver HT, only a white ST is being sent by MSIL. This has been the case since many months. Now that Dhabar sir has confirmed it, I have no doubt in that.

I'll be closely following your booking, as you have been promised a different shade.

Regards,
Shashi

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

if they place an order for say a silver HT, only a white ST is being sent by MSIL. This has been the case since many months.i

Many months?! They did this to me in 2009 too. I think I had booked a green, but got a white after asking me if white was ok, which it was.

Starter here got a red one around the same time though, I don't know how he pulled that off.

Originally Posted by Vikram Arya

I have noticed your contribution on various threads & you write quite passionately and in great detail about Gypsy so I have absolutely no doubt that your Gypsy will be on the road for many years to come and we would continue to get the privilege to read your pieces on anything to do with our beloved SUV.

Before I bought the Gypsy, I had the SFX Pajero for a year, a very capable vehicle. But it was too expensive to bash around on bad roads and I also had no confidence in HM/Mitsubishi to be sure I could use it for even a decade; which is when I decided to exchange the Paj for the Gypsy.

In my early days with it, I received a lot of very useful advice here and anything I write about it now is both to settle those debts and a paying it forward thing. And it is a very simple car not needing any major guru qualifications to write about it, particularly since my off roading is limited to getting to places that I want to go to, on roads that would embarrass or damage my other cars, no more; certainly not hard core off roading as some may call that kind of use and resultant expertise. It is just a general dogsbody kind of car at home now, and that term comes to mind given how often it gets used to move two active large dogs to and from muddy places! With just one annual service and no other attention than filling fuel and air.

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

Dear Sir, not discouraging you, buy probably I have already made you aware in the other thread of what my dealer said. According to them, even if they place an order for say a silver HT, only a white ST is being sent by MSIL

Thanks Shashi. As much as I'd like to NOT believe you, my conversations with the dealer, inputs from all of you here on this forum, and the fact that all of the new Gypsy's delivered to TBHP-ians of late have been white, my apprehension of not getting a blue Gypsy is increasing by the day, not to mention an increasing level of impatience

Originally Posted by Sawyer

Starter here got a red one around the same time though, I don't know how he pulled that off

I'd say. Here is the relevant post.

Starter - please share your experience, and any tips, if you can.

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by cool_dube

Thanks Shashi. As much as I'd like to NOT believe you, my conversations with the dealer, inputs from all of you here on this forum, and the fact that all of the new Gypsy's delivered to TBHP-ians of late have been white, my apprehension of not getting a blue Gypsy is increasing by the day, not to mention an increasing level of impatience

.

Even I wish that I am proven wrong, and that you get a Gypsy in your desired colour. Given a chance, I will myself like to go with the Blue shade or the Harvest green one.

Regards,
Shashi

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

Even I wish that I am proven wrong, and that you get a Gypsy in your desired colour. Given a chance, I will myself like to go with the Blue shade or the Harvest green one

Thanks Shashi. As a matter of fact, getting a harvest green Gypsy is easier than getting a blue, since Army and forest department orders are for this color. If you are in luck, you can get one if your order coincides with one of these.

[pedrolourenco]

I can understand Maruti not changing anything in the Gypsy due to Army requirements. But is it too much to ask for a LHS mirror, RHS Gypsy King Sticker, Power steering and some decent tyres. A friend recently picked up a Gypsy and had to spend over a lakh on upgrades.