[Sheel]

Originally Posted by padmrajravi

Does BOF have an advantage because of the wheel articulation even with a small GC value?

# BOF does appear to have some articulation advantage.
# Advertised specifications aren't true always, case in point - M&M Scorpio.
# The approach angle is low. Lower than ideal in that case.


And there are tons of things, sorry to go a bit OT, but, both Storme & Scorpio have the same 2.2 AVL engine, but both of them have different characteristics. I am requesting .anshuman & his OTR friends [all BHPians & good friends ] to answer, but I think they all are traveling, so may take some time.

[Ace F355]

Originally Posted by nikhilthegunner

Of course, the focus seems to be only on the Trailhawk while you just get glimpses of the other cars' off-road prowess. The video does not shed positive light on the Trailhawk.

Thanks for sharing and indeed, that particular day, Trailhawk was the focus for us. FYI, the driver of Trailhawk @ 5:20 is yours truly only and I did spend a lot of time with Trailhawk that day. BTW, the manual transmission red Endeavour 4WD that you see in the video belongs to me only.

So the background for this Trailhawk video goes back to July earlier this year. This gentleman (not known to us back then) had bought the Trailhawk and with the kind of excitement a new vehicle brings, he visited a couple of off-road tracks that are regular for us. Trailhawk had a company of a Alturas G4. Unfortunately, both drivers were newbies and got royally stuck. They had a joke of a recovery strap which they didn't know where to put, and in the recovery process, ended up breaking the strap and damaging the rear sway bar of Alturas G4 by using it as an anchor! Both these folks were stuck in these remote trails for a couple of hours, fortunately, it was a weekend OTR day for us and I spotted this bright red Trailhawk stuck on top of an obstacle and we went to check out the situation. Of course, we recovered both Mahindra and the Jeep, and while chatting we discovered the Mahindra was being driven by some newbie Youtube Content Creator and Jeep owner was there to try out his new vehicle.

The Jeep owner was a nice chap and gave us a call a couple of weeks later that he wants to join us for an OTR. And bingo, we had a Jeep Trailhawk with us, so obviously we were pretty excited about the vehicle. I am guessing this was sometime back in September. Obviously, it was a brand new vehicle so we didn't go very hard on it and since the owner didn't have much offroad experience but was keen to learn with us, and very generously allowed us to explore his new prized possession.

So that was that. Now coming back to the video, here are my observations about the vehicle.

• Trailhawk has many advantages over regular Compass when it comes to 4wheeling; including higher GC, much better approach angle, excellent underbody protection and a good active traction control system.
• The surface was semi-wet on the day this video was shot. Not the best conditions for testing active traction control systems. FYI, new-gen Fortuner, which is a gold standard in active traction systems that we have tested, also struggles to deploy it in these conditions. I would rate Trailhawk's traction control system at par with Duster AWD.
• The pseudo Low Range of the 9-speed AT gearbox (which locks it in 1st gear) can't match the real transfer case based Low Range offered on SUVs. It is too short a gear for gaining some momentum, and if we simply lock the 4WD system without putting it in 4WD Low, the car gets bogged down because of gear upshift midway of an obstacle. The 1st gear does offer decent reduction and should be okay to bring out the Trailhawk out of a tricky situation that one might encounter on offroad trails. I am sure, it would work nicely on an uneven rocky trail. However, when it comes to our kind of sandy offroad obstacles, Trailhawk is bound to run into issues that are common to crossovers (limited wheel articulation, limited abilities to gain momentum because of gear restrictions, etc).
• The particular obstacles aren't a cakewalk, however, we expected better performance from Trailhawk considering these obstacles didn't have any deep ruts that day and packed moist sand, etc. However, no matter what we tried, Trailhawk refused to gain any traction and go over these obstacles. We obviously didn't want to damage a brand new car, so didn't push it too hard either. Having said that, we have tried Duster AWD on these tracks multiple times and in these conditions, Duster AWD would have been at par or slightly better performer than the Trailhawk.

In below video is the same obstacle, albeit with much deeper diagonal ruts and a much looser sandy surface. There is no way Trailhawk could even cross the first rut of this obstacle in these conditions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sBa94BW_og

Originally Posted by Vid6639

The lower ground clearance of the Trailhawk vs the big boys as well as articulation as well as highway tyres was always going to be a challenge in extreme terrain like this.

Correct Vid. Low GC and limited articulation because of monocoque construction do play a big role in limiting 4wd capabilities of Trailhawk. However, on our kind of terrain, tires don't usually make that much of a difference.

Originally Posted by Guna

One thing I notice is, all other cars gained certain momentum before they reached the point of steep incline while the Compass seems to approach it gently. It can't build the momentum while it is already beginning to loose some traction.

Because of really short 1st gear. If I didn't put it in 4WD Low, it could gain momentum but will get bogged down as gearbox decided to upshift even in TipTronic mode.

Originally Posted by Sheel

it is a brilliant ride/handling/driving package, but it won't off-road as good as a Fortuner, but then, these two vehicles belong to a different class.

Oh, no doubt about it. Trailhawk is an amazing beast on the road. But if the usage is on-road only, what's wrong with regular Compass! While I agree the 4wd capabilities of Trailhawk can get you out of a tricky situation when you are out there touring in remote areas, but the additional costs for these capabilities in case of Trailhawk are prohibitive in my opinion.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by Ace F355

[*]The pseudo Low Range of the 9-speed AT gearbox (which locks it in 1st gear) can't match the real transfer case based Low Range offered on SUVs.

So apart from marketing English of FCA, there is not much difference between Compass & Duster AWD system is what I could gather from your post.

Is Hexa any different?

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

So apart from marketing English of FCA, there is not much difference between Compass & Duster AWD system is what I could gather from your post.

Oh, there is - a huge one - price What on earth was FCA thinking when deciding the price for the Compass!?! Absolutely spot on strategy to kill a good product

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Is Hexa any different?

Hexa is a completely different animal altogether - a super-comfortable, 7-seater, luxury cruiser with "decent" AWD capabilities (let down to an extent by its weight and dimensions).

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by cool_dube

Oh, there is - a huge one - price What on earth was FCA thinking when deciding the price for the Compass!?! Absolutely spot on strategy to kill a good product
.

Hmm, so FCA is in a spot of bother just about everywhere, a Fiat crossover with Jeep logo , front wheel biased drive train and lots of English - premium compact SUV with pricing to match!

Not the first time, we went after it once in the past where Korean stuff was sold with Chevy bow tie.

[cool_dube]

Now that the Trailhawk has been out there for quite some time, would request owners to share their perspective on various aspects of ownership experience - on-road/off-road performance, gearbox feel, etc.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

So apart from marketing English of FCA, there is not much difference between Compass & Duster AWD system is what I could gather from your post.

Is Hexa any different?

When it comes to serious offroad capability in stock form, all these AWDs are same (with some exceptions) . Some like Subaru have slightly better traction control systems which may work better in some conditions, but almost in all applications requiring ground clearance, a ladder on frame SUV, even one with no traction control and just basic clutch based LSD like Safari, will run rings around all the Xmatic, TripleX, TrailKing, TrailBoss, Trailvulture, Trailcat, Traildragon, Trailcow....

Where these AWDs really do well is slick ice, where the surface itself is very slick, and there is not much requirement for ground clearance. But here also tires will play a bigger role.

So is it better than Duster AWD? Not really. Duster and Subaru systems are really good. An example of a bad AWD system would be Honda CRV.
Jeep Trailhawk also has a pretty good system. Is it better than Subaru. I don't know that. Very difficult to comment unless you have same tires, same conditions etc.,

But all these systems cannot hold a candle to a vehicle which can lock its diffs and is ladder on frame "truck".

IF you want to go to Ladakh, Spiti, or countless such offroad destinations where M800s and Alto's do "offroad" duty, sure it will work very very well.

However if you want to join Anshuman on the Dunes of Gurgaon, or any of the countless offroad groups during heavy snowfall and a foot deep snow, then nope, this is the wrong vehicle.

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

However if you want to join Anshuman on the Dunes of Gurgaon, or any of the countless offroad groups during heavy snowfall and a foot deep snow, then nope, this is the wrong vehicle.

Completely agree with this! Notwithstanding all the tall claims around "Trail Rated" badge, the Trailhawk is nowhere close to competing with the grand daddies like Fortuner, Endeavour, Pajero, MU-X, Thar, Gypsy, and so forth, when it comes to taking on a trail.

That being said, I strongly believe that this is NOT the target customer segment either. The Trailhawk is - or rather was, before the diesel-auto 4x4 was launched - targeted at folks who wanted a city-friendly compact SUV which can not only ferry them to office in utmost comfort but also transform into that go-almost-anywhere vehicle over the weekends without having to worry too much about off-road prowess of the driver. Of course, now with the diesel-auto 4x4 coming in, the Trailhawk will see further dip in sales!

[brownianmotion]

Is Jeep Trailhawk good enough to climb down and up from Tumling to Sandakphu in both dry, wet and mild snow conditions ? Similarly can it take on mud / slush road in Marhi during monsoon before reaching Rohtang pass.
Also i felt the ride quality is better than regular compass along with a moderate refinement . But do you feel the absence of paddle shifter in highways (which I use very often in my Ecosport) ? Also do you feel 205 ground clearance is good enough for above cases?
I am thinking if I can go for a Trailhawk as it is 6/7 L lesser than Endy and also easier to maneuver in city ( don’t want to maintain 2 cars). But it should meet the above requirements .
Looking forward to your suggestions as it is difficult to figure out everything in a short test drive within city. Request your help in deciding whether I should go for Trailhawk or shell out more for a Endy or go for something else

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by brownianmotion

Is Jeep Trailhawk good enough to climb down and up from Tumling to Sandakphu in both dry, wet and mild snow conditions ?

I have driven to Sandakphu in a LR discovery sports. Yes, Trailhawk can do this road. Can't comment about Rohtang pass since I have not driven there.

[DirtyDan]

Originally Posted by brownianmotion

Similarly can it take on mud / slush road in Marhi during monsoon before reaching Rohtang pass.
... Also do you feel 205 ground clearance is good enough for above cases?
I am thinking if I can go for a Trailhawk as it is 6/7 L lesser than Endy and also easier to maneuver in city... whether I should go for Trailhawk or shell out more for a Endy or go for something else

You could do Rohtang Pass in just about anything from the Manali side. I have done Rohtang, and the Leh road to Keylong, in a Maruti Omni, in my misspent youth. It's north of Rohtang where things start to get...exciting. This in turn is dependent on what time of year you go and what the weather has been like. The road and the bridges north of Rohtang often get washed out, washed over, there are slides...you are in the deep Himalayas. GC can be a problem because of deep ruts cut in some parts of the road. Usually you can avoid these. I ALWAYS carry a pick (recovery unit #1) and a shovel (recovery unit #2). ALWAYS! And, I have had to use them. I have done the Manali-Leh road very easily in both my Thars ( stock motors very slightly tweaked). I imagine the Trailhawk will handle it, no sweat. Lots of people do Manali-Leh, Manali-Rohtang, in two wheel drives. E.G. there are a lot of Sumo taxis doing business there.

Fiat and Jeep do not share the greatest reputation in North America. People rave about the motors and the ruggedness. But you will find reviews on YouTube and elsewhere that bemoan Fiat chintz on peripherals and what that means for long term ownership. Frankly, I don't see a good moderately priced 4X4 SUV in the market right now in India. Everything is a compromise and a crapshoot. Especially in terms of spares and service, if nowhere else. Maruti is still listening to their incompetent marketing department for some reason so a viable new Grand Vitara for India doesn't look imminent.

[brownianmotion]

Originally Posted by Samurai

I have driven to Sandakphu in a LR discovery sports. Yes, Trailhawk can do this road. Can't comment about Rohtang pass since I have not driven there.

Thanks a lot for the confirmation. But I saw in one of reviews in this thread that there are some apprehensions in coming down a slope in wet conditions. Is that a problem which is there in Trailhawk but not in Endeavour? Is that a deal breaker? Advantage of Trailhawk over Endeavour for people like me (who want to keep only one car and does off-roading as and when it comes during a trip eg sach pass, Bum la) , i can easily manage in city and negotiate narrow roads due to its size - at the same time I won’t be restricted to go to places like Sach Pass, Sandakphu ( as I am restricted today with my Ecosport) . If one gets it at 6/7 L lesser than Endeavour, and the off-road capabilities are decent enough to take one through places like Bum la, Sach pass then I think that makes a decent buy .

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

You could do Rohtang Pass in just about anything from the Manali side. I have done Rohtang, and the Leh road to Keylong, in a Maruti Omni, in my misspent youth. It's north of Rohtang where things start to get...exciting. This, in turn, is dependent on what time of year you go and what the weather has been like. them. I have done the Manali-Leh road very easily in both my Thars ( stock motors very slightly tweaked).

Thanks. I was referring to my personal experience when all the cars were stuck up in Marhi due to mud and slush during monsoon. Many cars including ours SX4 has to be dragged/pushed by Tempo Traveller. I hope Trailhawk can handle that but not sure. I personally believe you do not need 4wd in Ladakh unless you want to venture into places like Shinku la in Zanskar

[BlackPearl]

Originally Posted by brownianmotion

Is Jeep Trailhawk good enough to climb down and up from Tumling to Sandakphu in both dry, wet and mild snow conditions ? Similarly can it take on mud / slush road in Marhi during monsoon before reaching Rohtang pass.

It will be good enough in dry conditions, but I think the ground clearance will become a big challenge in wet conditions due to the ruts created by the Land Rovers with their humongous ground clearance. And once the road deteriorates and after rain and snow, the loose rocks and boulders pose a huge challenge. Here is a video of how bad it can go. This stretch is after Sandakphu, towards Phalut

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LD6nHvOaTQ

A picture of how the road used to be. It has improved a lot nowadays though.

[albeit21]

@brownianmotion
Pertaining to your discussion above about using the Jeep Compass Trailhawk in the city.
The compass is very easy to manoeuvre in the city and it glides past uneven surfaces, potholes and speed breakers, also it doesn’t have the jolt that the big SUVs have. The steering, suspension and the size of the car are the biggest positives of the Jeep Compass Trailhawk. The steering is very light compared to other traditional SUVs. The size of the car is just about right to fit in gaps that you can’t even imagine doing in mammoths. The car performs well in hilly roads and there’s not a great amount of body roll.
If you’re not looking at the last row and the extreme capabilities of the ladder frame chassis then this is the best car out there in the market.

[Auto_Song]

@Arjun , Would like to have a discussion with you on TH and ZF transmission.
Requesting this after reading / knowing that you are JC TH owner.

Planning to own one and need to clear few points and there is nobody better than a true owner. (Thanks)