Excited, Questions about a Willys jeep i am considering!

TheARUN · 2nd February 2009, 13:16

Checked twice today. The Owner did not come and since I'm leaving for work will not be able to meet him today.

The mechanic is quoting 60 thousand in 'as-is-where' is condition. People I asked, who did not see the JEEP advised me to offer anything between 25 and 40 thousand.

From the pictures, it indeed is a WILLYS CJ3B with the HURRICANE petrol engine

Red Liner · 2nd February 2009, 13:55

just negotiate with him. this is a superb vehicle to restore. negotiate hard and dont give up or give in. about 35k will be an apt price. take some mechie who knows jeeps from your side and go haggle. say you want it for your farm in coorg etc.

TheARUN · 3rd February 2009, 10:39

Buoyed by the encouragement you guys are giving me, I turned up again at the mechanic's today morning.

It was the usual gab, could not meet the owner, I have your number I'll let you know and stuff like that

Little did the mechanic know that I had worn my 'scheming politician's' hat. I quietly invited him for a cup of tea, he was taken aback, I said I had to talk to him, what's the harm, he agreed.

I let loose

We grew up in a mining area and my Dad used to have a JEEP like this, its part of my childhood and I won't be complete without it
I'm not looking for a perfect one, I want an imperfect one which I can learn on and become a DIY dude on JEEPs
How the no proper papers, left hand drive, petrol engine and rust were bargaining points. He tried his best to get a quote out of me, but I cleverly avoided saying that money was not an issue, but I wanted a good deal so that I could spend most of my money at his mechanic shop doing up the JEEP
He went nostalgic and fell for the trap hook line and sinker. He began telling me about the times he learnt the ropes on these very kind of vehicles
I told him how I had bought a BULLET and slowly worked it into top condition
I wanted to use the JEEP as a runabout within a kilometer's radius

He told me that the JEEP was in running condition but had petty work that should be attended to.

Finally he promised me that he would bat for me with the owner and pull off a coup

Lets see, I'm spending my time with a prayer on my lips.

WATCH THIS SPACE

TheARUN · 5th February 2009, 09:13

The great UBS Sir replied to my mail. I was overjoyed. He said he will give me a detailed report on the acquisition. Eagerly awaiting his mail

Did not go to the garage yesterday, but checked it out quietly 12 in the night. Will go there in a few minutes. Have butterflies in my stomach, maybe the JEEP will be mine today

TheARUN · 5th February 2009, 12:52

Met the owner. He is a professional restorer of vintage vehicles. Has a garage which is filled with vintage bikes

AJ Matchless
Old Enfield
Suvega
Bobby
Vespas
Lambrettas
Rajdoot scooter

The works.

His final rate on the CJ3B is 50,000, maybe a little negotiable.

The vehicle has no documents. Period

I don't know what to do. I'm stuck in a real dilema/catch 22 situation. On one hand I don't want to miss out on a deal of a lifetime, on the other hand I don't want to become the laughing stock

I'm trodding the only part I know.

Putting up every update I get on T-BHP so that some kind soul may guide me on
Sending PMs to all JEEP Gurus to help me finalise a fair price/advice on whether to go for it or not
In touch with the greatest JEEP expert in the country Uday Bhan Singh to get his word
Taking a trained eye, a 50 year old engineer, who has worked with almost all automobile companies and is a vehicle enthusiast, who knows JEEPS like the back of his palm to get an opinion
Going to the 'gujali' to find out the scrap value of the JEEP, so that if I hit a road block, I'll atleast know what my net loss would be

I don't have time on my hand; there is a guy from Coimbatore coming to buy the JEEP, he is also a professional restorer, so the race is on

Lets see what destiny has in store for me

PAVAN KADAM · 5th February 2009, 13:03

Arun,

My neighbour wants a Bobby, Pls find out if he has one for sale.

cheers...KADAM

MM440 · 5th February 2009, 13:11

Hi
Think I might know the gentleman you are talking about.Without papers what would you do with the vehicle?
Cheers
Jammy

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheARUN

Met the owner. He is a professional restorer of vintage vehicles. Has a garage which is filled with vintage bikes....

The vehicle has no documents. Period

I don't know what to do. ...

Red Liner · 5th February 2009, 14:49

Yup. No papers, no go. Avoid it.

Spitfire · 5th February 2009, 14:57

This is a no brainer. No papers no deal.

How do you know this is not stolen and thats the reason for the sale.

A restorer selling a unrestored piece. Rings a bell?

brat001 · 5th February 2009, 15:02

well papers is an important part of any automobile,without it you could be inviting complications at a later date. Also remember that you will need to insure the jeep,do the fitness and pay taxes too.Its a totally different thing if you are just going to keep the jeep as a show piece (im sure you wont) and never take it out on the road.
the approx scap value if you were to sell would be approx 15-20k, if you want to buy then the same guys quote 25 upwards..

S@~+#0$# · 5th February 2009, 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by MM440

Hi
Think I might know the gentleman you are talking about.Without papers what would you do with the vehicle?
Cheers
Jammy

@TheArun: I think even I know the chap you are dealing with and have seen this Jeep in person. In my search for a LHD Petrol Willys Jeep, this was one among the many that I had seen. The Jeep can be restored with some effort, but I did not buy it since it did not have documents. FYI, this Jeep does not have even the auction papers.

harjeev · 5th February 2009, 23:05

Totally agree!!!
Without papers its not worth it.
Arun Does it have the 4x4 transfer case and the front diffs installed or have they be removed???
The jeep that I have seen (infact I have almost bought it) has both of these removed. Also the started coil is missing. But I think that I can sort out these and after restoration it will be a beauty. I am on the lookout for a 4x4 transfercase along with the complete gearbox and Front diffs!!!
The main thing is that the papers along with the affidavit and the original RC are all there.

Can you please forward me the email received from UBS sir. I have Pmed you my email id
Thanks

JayD · 5th February 2009, 23:11

Arun, pls don't even consider it without papers, especially since you don't know its history. I'm sure you will come across a better one.

TheARUN · 5th February 2009, 23:45

Everyone on the forum is advising me against going in for the JEEP without papers. I would be a fool if I still go ahead

I undertook some research and this is what I found

When a Government departmnet auctions a vehicle as scrap, it can never be registered. Its like signing the death warrant
People do not show auction papers even if they have them because at an auction the vehicles are bought for ridiculously low prices, maybe evern 5 to 7 thousand. They cannot charge us 10 times that when they sell it, so the papers are conveniently hidden, maybe till after the sale is done.
Its possible to get a RC of an already scrapped vehicle and then match your engine numbers, chassis numbers and vehicle number to it, for 5 thousand, transfer formalities another 1 thousand and registration charges and life tax at actuals/as calcutated by the RTA/RTO

This guy lives near my place, has quite a few vehicles of vintage and has an established business, so if he passes me a stolen/similar vehicle, I'll lead the cops to his doorstep, maybe I'll even check the police records for anything reported on the vehicle. Its possible to check by paying 20 rupees, if the vehicle is wanted for a criminal offense.

Bottom line is, its still a dilema

FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE
HIGHER THE RISK GREATER THE BENEFIT

WILLYS CJ3Bs are becoming increasingly rare, and now is the time to pick one up, get parts and have it restored. Its difficult budgeting for or picking a good vehicle, I'm extremely confused. Don't want to take a decision that I might regret, either ways

TheARUN · 5th February 2009, 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by harjeev

Totally agree!!!
Without papers its not worth it.
Arun Does it have the 4x4 transfer case and the front diffs installed or have they be removed???
The jeep that I have seen (infact I have almost bought it) has both of these removed. Also the started coil is missing. But I think that I can sort out these and after restoration it will be a beauty. I am on the lookout for a 4x4 transfercase along with the complete gearbox and Front diffs!!!
The main thing is that the papers along with the affidavit and the original RC are all there.

Can you please forward me the email received from UBS sir. I have Pmed you my email id
Thanks

Its got the front diffential, but there is a gaping hole where the propeller shaft would fit in. I'm assuming that the differential in the front is not hollow and has parts in it.

The gear box appears to have been changed since this one has only a single lever, and could not even find stubs of the 4x4 lever.

2nd February 2009, 13:16	#16
TheARUN Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,373 Thanked: 956 Times View My Garage	Checked twice today. The Owner did not come and since I'm leaving for work will not be able to meet him today. The mechanic is quoting 60 thousand in 'as-is-where' is condition. People I asked, who did not see the JEEP advised me to offer anything between 25 and 40 thousand. From the pictures, it indeed is a WILLYS CJ3B with the HURRICANE petrol engine
	() Thanks

2nd February 2009, 13:55	#17
Red Liner Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 5,209 Thanked: 18,042 Times	just negotiate with him. this is a superb vehicle to restore. negotiate hard and dont give up or give in. about 35k will be an apt price. take some mechie who knows jeeps from your side and go haggle. say you want it for your farm in coorg etc.
	() Thanks

3rd February 2009, 10:39	#18
TheARUN Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,373 Thanked: 956 Times View My Garage	Buoyed by the encouragement you guys are giving me, I turned up again at the mechanic's today morning. It was the usual gab, could not meet the owner, I have your number I'll let you know and stuff like that Little did the mechanic know that I had worn my 'scheming politician's' hat. I quietly invited him for a cup of tea, he was taken aback, I said I had to talk to him, what's the harm, he agreed. I let loose We grew up in a mining area and my Dad used to have a JEEP like this, its part of my childhood and I won't be complete without it I'm not looking for a perfect one, I want an imperfect one which I can learn on and become a DIY dude on JEEPs How the no proper papers, left hand drive, petrol engine and rust were bargaining points. He tried his best to get a quote out of me, but I cleverly avoided saying that money was not an issue, but I wanted a good deal so that I could spend most of my money at his mechanic shop doing up the JEEP He went nostalgic and fell for the trap hook line and sinker. He began telling me about the times he learnt the ropes on these very kind of vehicles I told him how I had bought a BULLET and slowly worked it into top condition I wanted to use the JEEP as a runabout within a kilometer's radius He told me that the JEEP was in running condition but had petty work that should be attended to. Finally he promised me that he would bat for me with the owner and pull off a coup Lets see, I'm spending my time with a prayer on my lips. WATCH THIS SPACE
	() Thanks

5th February 2009, 09:13	#19
TheARUN Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,373 Thanked: 956 Times View My Garage	The great UBS Sir replied to my mail. I was overjoyed. He said he will give me a detailed report on the acquisition. Eagerly awaiting his mail Did not go to the garage yesterday, but checked it out quietly 12 in the night. Will go there in a few minutes. Have butterflies in my stomach, maybe the JEEP will be mine today
	() Thanks

5th February 2009, 12:52	#20
TheARUN Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,373 Thanked: 956 Times View My Garage	Latest update Met the owner. He is a professional restorer of vintage vehicles. Has a garage which is filled with vintage bikes AJ Matchless Old Enfield Suvega Bobby Vespas Lambrettas Rajdoot scooter The works. His final rate on the CJ3B is 50,000, maybe a little negotiable. The vehicle has no documents. Period I don't know what to do. I'm stuck in a real dilema/catch 22 situation. On one hand I don't want to miss out on a deal of a lifetime, on the other hand I don't want to become the laughing stock I'm trodding the only part I know. Putting up every update I get on T-BHP so that some kind soul may guide me on Sending PMs to all JEEP Gurus to help me finalise a fair price/advice on whether to go for it or not In touch with the greatest JEEP expert in the country Uday Bhan Singh to get his word Taking a trained eye, a 50 year old engineer, who has worked with almost all automobile companies and is a vehicle enthusiast, who knows JEEPS like the back of his palm to get an opinion Going to the 'gujali' to find out the scrap value of the JEEP, so that if I hit a road block, I'll atleast know what my net loss would be I don't have time on my hand; there is a guy from Coimbatore coming to buy the JEEP, he is also a professional restorer, so the race is on Lets see what destiny has in store for me
	() Thanks

5th February 2009, 13:03	#21
PAVAN KADAM BANNED Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: NAMMA BENGALURU Posts: 5,602 Thanked: 2,549 Times	Arun, My neighbour wants a Bobby, Pls find out if he has one for sale. cheers...KADAM
	() Thanks

5th February 2009, 14:49	#23
Red Liner Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 5,209 Thanked: 18,042 Times	Yup. No papers, no go. Avoid it.
	() Thanks

5th February 2009, 14:57	#24
Spitfire BANNED Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Panaji - Goa/Bangalore - Karnataka Posts: 3,312 Thanked: 774 Times	This is a no brainer. No papers no deal. How do you know this is not stolen and thats the reason for the sale. A restorer selling a unrestored piece. Rings a bell?
	() Thanks

5th February 2009, 15:02	#25
brat001 BHPian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: bangalore Posts: 155 Thanked: 33 Times	well papers is an important part of any automobile,without it you could be inviting complications at a later date. Also remember that you will need to insure the jeep,do the fitness and pay taxes too.Its a totally different thing if you are just going to keep the jeep as a show piece (im sure you wont) and never take it out on the road. the approx scap value if you were to sell would be approx 15-20k, if you want to buy then the same guys quote 25 upwards..
	() Thanks

5th February 2009, 23:05	#27
harjeev Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 1,899 Thanked: 292 Times View My Garage	Totally agree!!! Without papers its not worth it. Arun Does it have the 4x4 transfer case and the front diffs installed or have they be removed??? The jeep that I have seen (infact I have almost bought it) has both of these removed. Also the started coil is missing. But I think that I can sort out these and after restoration it will be a beauty. I am on the lookout for a 4x4 transfercase along with the complete gearbox and Front diffs!!! The main thing is that the papers along with the affidavit and the original RC are all there. Can you please forward me the email received from UBS sir. I have Pmed you my email id Thanks
	() Thanks

5th February 2009, 23:11	#28
JayD Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Cochin! At last Posts: 3,236 Thanked: 2,568 Times View My Garage	Arun, pls don't even consider it without papers, especially since you don't know its history. I'm sure you will come across a better one.
	() Thanks

5th February 2009, 23:45	#29
TheARUN Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,373 Thanked: 956 Times View My Garage	The scene without papers Everyone on the forum is advising me against going in for the JEEP without papers. I would be a fool if I still go ahead I undertook some research and this is what I found When a Government departmnet auctions a vehicle as scrap, it can never be registered. Its like signing the death warrant People do not show auction papers even if they have them because at an auction the vehicles are bought for ridiculously low prices, maybe evern 5 to 7 thousand. They cannot charge us 10 times that when they sell it, so the papers are conveniently hidden, maybe till after the sale is done. Its possible to get a RC of an already scrapped vehicle and then match your engine numbers, chassis numbers and vehicle number to it, for 5 thousand, transfer formalities another 1 thousand and registration charges and life tax at actuals/as calcutated by the RTA/RTO This guy lives near my place, has quite a few vehicles of vintage and has an established business, so if he passes me a stolen/similar vehicle, I'll lead the cops to his doorstep, maybe I'll even check the police records for anything reported on the vehicle. Its possible to check by paying 20 rupees, if the vehicle is wanted for a criminal offense. Bottom line is, its still a dilema FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE HIGHER THE RISK GREATER THE BENEFIT WILLYS CJ3Bs are becoming increasingly rare, and now is the time to pick one up, get parts and have it restored. Its difficult budgeting for or picking a good vehicle, I'm extremely confused. Don't want to take a decision that I might regret, either ways
	() Thanks