[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by satan

Best to drive a gypsy that has them fitted and feel the difference in the drive.

I know; I have driven yours!
Here is the important thing about these, for those that will not use 4WD often. Like any mechanical gear, it needs to be used to remain in good condition. In the standard car of today, this needs no special effort because it is alway in use, just uncoupled in the transmission case. When the lockers are installed and are in open position, the entire front part of the 4WD gear is motionless. So to keep that in good working condition, it is necessary to lock the hubs, and find a place to run the car for a few hundred metres in a way that will not damage the drive train by winding it up. How often isn't something I know - every couple of months perhaps? But if not done, the 4WD will not work on the rare occasion you need it to.

[starter]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Any inputs on installing Power Steering on an old Gypsy King 1.3 Mpfi would be much appreciated.

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Honestly not really worth the trouble. Steering assist is needed only at parking speeds on a Gypsy.

I agree with Jaggu. The whole point of the Gypsy is its simple mechanicals.
That manual steering on the Gypsy is just perfect.
Unless you plan on installing tyres > 215s, i don't think you would need one.
I would rather spend that money in getting the complete steering gear checked, and if worn, get it replaced with new.

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

Here is the important thing about these, for those that will not use 4WD often...

Agreed! BTW, have you experienced the slightly higher rolling resistance in your Gypsy? Just checking if I need to get it attended to.

[satan]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

I know; I have driven yours!
Here is the important thing about these, for those that will not use 4WD often. Like any mechanical gear, it needs to be used to remain in good condition. In the standard car of today, this needs no special effort because it is alway in use, just uncoupled in the transmission case. When the lockers are installed and are in open position, the entire front part of the 4WD gear is motionless. So to keep that in good working condition, it is necessary to lock the hubs, and find a place to run the car for a few hundred metres in a way that will not damage the drive train by winding it up. How often isn't something I know - every couple of months perhaps? But if not done, the 4WD will not work on the rare occasion you need it to.

Hi Kumar, its been a while. i hear your concerns about the hubs but you forget that they were part of the original design and were meant to be used occasionally (which is why they were installed in the first place). As mentioned in my previous post the quality of the FW hub does matter and cheaper options will get clogged with mud and dirt after an offroad session if not cleaned regularly.

Now the procedure to "exercise" the front tranny is really easy and infact can be done by you as often as you want at any place where you are parked, be it your compound or a long traffic signal.

Steps as below that may initially appear complex until put into practice following which they become second nature.

1. Start car
2. Pull up the handbrake
3. Select neutral gear
4. Shift the small transfer case lever into Neutral from the default 2H
5. Depress clutch and select first gear and slowly move your leg off the clutch
6. The car will be stationary but you will feel front drive shaft rotating
7. Let this run for a minute or even less
8. Once done, depress clutch move back from first gear to Neutral gear
9. Slot back the small transfer case lever from N into the default 2H position
10. Exercise complete

I've run both my Gypsys with FWHs for more than 20years and never had a problem with either the hubs or the transmission. But i also respect the fact that every owner has a different reason for owning a Gypsy and depending on that purpose she or he can always choose how they mod their vehicle.

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by cool_dube

Agreed! BTW, have you experienced the slightly higher rolling resistance in your Gypsy? Just checking if I need to get it attended to.

I would not worry about it; just make sure the parking brake is correctly set and isn't staying engaged. Remember that the wider contact patch of the tyres will also increase resistance to rolling compared to an Alto. With some effort, I can push my Gypsy from outside the driver door when in neutral in my parking; if you can do that, all is good.

Originally Posted by satan

Hi Kumar, its been a while.

Now the procedure to "exercise" the front tranny is really easy and infact can be done by you as often as you want at any place where you are parked, be it your compound or a long traffic signal.

Steps as below that may initially appear complex

Neville, all good, and trust the same with you.

I am not sure I agree with the steps you mention; or I am confused and here is my question:
With the FWH locked, if the front wheel is not moving, but the engine is, where is the necessary break in the drive line happening? It has to be upstream of the drive shafts, in the transfer case. For the drive shafts to rotate without the front wheels moving, the break would have to be at the wheel hub: where?! And if the drive shafts are not rotating, the exercise is pointless and needs the car to be in motion.

[khan_sultan]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Any inputs on installing Power Steering on an old Gypsy King 1.3 Mpfi would be much appreciated.
Im in the process of buying an old Stock Gypsy King 1.3 Mpfi just for my personal use and would like to consider the modification to have Power steering on it just for a little extra comfort.

As Jaggu mentioned get OE from abroad -- if at all you want it. However in my half a decade of ownership I never felt the need of it. It was smooth & even with 31" tyres in competitive offroad situations didn't feel the need. Having said that, have driven few gypsies where the steering hard like a rock. A non-smooth steering is in fact a symptom of kingpin etc parts not being perfect.

Originally Posted by Sawyer

...... When the lockers are installed and are in open position, the entire front part of the 4WD gear is motionless. So to keep that in good working condition, it is necessary to lock the hubs, and find a place to run the car for a few hundred metres in a way that will not damage the drive train by winding it up. H....

Lockers & FWH are 2 different things. Drove my gypsy with both FWH not there and later installed them. Makes a world of difference. Worth every penny.

[Sawyer]

Pardon the wrong jargon; my comment was with respect to FWH and other than that mistake, still stands correct, I think.
My car goes off road very rarely, and I have driven both kinds. I am quite happy with my 2009 stock version. My only reason for installing them would be a reduction of turning circle diameter, but I don't think they do that.

[satan]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

Neville, all good, and trust the same with you.

Yes Kumar all's good

Originally Posted by Sawyer

I am not sure I agree with the steps you mention; or I am confused and here is my question:
With the FWH locked, if the front wheel is not moving, but the engine is, where is the necessary break in the drive line happening?

It has to be upstream of the drive shafts, in the transfer case. For the drive shafts to rotate without the front wheels moving, the break would have to be at the wheel hub: where?! And if the drive shafts are not rotating, the exercise is pointless and needs the car to be in motion.

You should only attempt these steps if you have FWHs fitted on your Gypsy and they are in the free position and not locked like you mention above. So if the hub is set on free and place you transfer case in N and engage first your front tranny will engage and free wheel or "exercise".

[Sawyer]

Hang on; if the hubs are in free position, and you have selected N via the low range lever, isn't the drive line now broken in two places even with first engaged? One at the hub and two, in the transfer case. So even this way the front shafts would not turn...

As I still see it, the only way to exercise the front driveline is to lock the hubs and drive the car so that it moves, in a place that won't damage the driveline.

No?:-)

[satan]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

Hang on; if the hubs are in free position, and you have selected N via the low range lever, isn't the drive line now broken in two places even with first engaged? One at the hub and two, in the transfer case. So even this way the front shafts would not turn...

As I still see it, the only way to exercise the front driveline is to lock the hubs and drive the car so that it moves, in a place that won't damage the driveline.

No?:-)

Please try this out on a gypsy with FWHs and satisfy yourself . For the record, I havent invented this procedure. Its from an early SJ413 service manual I'd read in the mid 90s.

[Sawyer]

Since I don't have that kind of car available, we will have to leave this unresolved!

I had once thought that this is a good way to exercise the 4WD on my car, till someone here pointed out to me that it isn't achieving anything; once N is selected in the gearbox via either lever, no drive comes out of the gearbox, so nothing downstream of the gear box moves. I thought about this a little, and thought: that sounds right.

Then I realised that in the stock car it isn't necessary to do anything at all since all the 4WD gear is always moving even in 2WD mode except that it isn't coupled to the driveline inside the transfer case/gear box. All that selecting 4WD does is coupling two moving bits of gear on either side of where the coupling happens.

I could be wrong, I am no Gypsy Guru. Maybe someone else here will point out where I am going wrong.

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

I had once thought that this is a good way to exercise the 4WD on my car, till someone here pointed out to me that it isn't achieving anything; once N is selected in the gearbox via either lever, no drive comes out of the gearbox, so nothing downstream of the gear box moves. I thought about this a little, and thought: that sounds right.

For completeness and for anyone interested, posts #7 and #12 in my linked thread below is where I picked up the above quoted advice:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-te...condition.html
And re-reading that makes me realise again that working the 4wd on a car with FWH can be done anywhere, even on tarmac, by leaving the car in 2WD mode, with the front hubs locked down. In that way, the movement of the car/front wheels will get all the 4WD parts to move all the way up to the gear box; but since 4WD is not engaged, there is no cause for windup to happen, irrespective of road surface. But locking the hubs and having the car move around seems to be necessary, as far as I can see.

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Any inputs on installing Power Steering on an old Gypsy King 1.3 Mpfi would be much appreciated

Shankar - I'd agree with others here. The USP of Gypsy is its simplicity, why ruin it with something that can be lived without. I have been driving my King shod with 215 radials w/o P/S for over a month now, mostly on tarmac and in city traffic - have been able to manage without P/S pretty well. I am sure if I can, you can too - c'mon man, exercise those dormant bicep and shoulder muscles. If they can swing golf clubs, they can operate the Gypsy steering too That said, if the steering is too heavy (maybe you can compare it with mine) then time to get the steering mechanism checked.

Originally Posted by Sawyer

With some effort, I can push my Gypsy from outside the driver door when in neutral in my parking; if you can do that, all is good.

I am - so looks like all is well. I did get the hand brake loosened up a bit in the first free service but did not make much diff, leading me to believe that it is not the culprit. Seems a non-issue.

Originally Posted by Sawyer

once N is selected in the gearbox via either lever, no drive comes out of the gearbox, so nothing downstream of the gear box moves

Spot on! Once "N" is selected, your car is as good as a sitting duck with no component of the transmission moving - front or rear - irrespective of the main gearbox being engaged.

Originally Posted by Sawyer

Then I realised that in the stock car it isn't necessary to do anything at all since all the 4WD gear is always moving even in 2WD mode except that it isn't coupled to the driveline inside the transfer case/gear box. All that selecting 4WD does is coupling two moving bits of gear on either side of where the coupling happens.

Spot on, again! I had a similar setup in my Classic and have learned to live with it. I am sure - and it makes logical sense - that installation of FWH will "loosen out" the whole front transmission, leading to a lighter drive. However, for the sake of minimal tampering with the stock setup, I'd refrain from going this route. As satan said above, to each his own!

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by cool_dube

However, for the sake of minimal tampering with the stock setup, I'd refrain from going this route.

That was one reason I refrained. The other was that I knew that for my rare need of 4WD, I would probably forget to lock the hubs in advance and find that out only after I was stuck somewhere because 4WD did not work; I have learnt enough of 4WD to understand that the time to switch to that mode is a little before it is needed.

[cool_dube]

Okay, here I am with another query - I am noticing regular pressure build-up in my Gypsy's fuel tank, wherein whenever I open the fuel cap, there is a pressure release with significantly loud "hiss". Is this normal? Will this damage the fuel tank in the long run?

I thought all fuel caps these days come with pressure release mechanism - but then, with a Gypsy you never know