[suzuki san]

[quote=Arsi;4498208]

Originally Posted by nanju

Are you sure that this is the issue? It might be a deal breaker for me then.

Considering the fact that there were no signs of off roading in the underbody visual inspection, I think that the transfer case has been used sparsely. One more thing which I noticed was that the transfer case in the centre of the underbody was covered with a sticky black greasy layer. What does that suggest?

The expert on Gypsies is khan_sultan who is a "Distinguished BHP'ian and moderator on this forum.
It would be best if he gives you his opinion.
Personally, if I had to change the transfer case - as Nanju suggests, I would NOT buy this Gypsy.

khan_sultan. Your expert advice needed please.

Regards,
SS

[nanju]

[quote=Arsi;4498208]

Originally Posted by nanju

Are you sure that this is the issue? It might be a deal breaker for me then.

Considering the fact that there were no signs of off roading in the underbody visual inspection, I think that the transfer case has been used sparsely. One more thing which I noticed was that the transfer case in the centre of the underbody was covered with a sticky black greasy layer. What does that suggest?

Absolutely. I went thru the same scenario during my first gypsy build in 2012. I guess it should not be a deal breaker. Check OLX, you have good dealers who will send you a used TC for 15-20k. The deal you have got is a good one except this issue.

[JayD]

After dreaming about it for many years and going through all the Gypsy threads on the forum multiple times, I have finally started restoration of a 2001 Gypsy King Mpfi. It is an Ex- Army hardtop Gypsy , and as can be expected, not in great shape. It wouldn't have been my first choice for resto, but things just fell in place with this one.

I have a lot of plans with it, and have been collecting parts for a while. It has the 1.3 mpfi engine, but after getting used to the FJ, I find it to be lacking low end torque. Looking at a 1.6 Baleno swap, get some good suspension to take care of the very bouncy ride, and an AC to make it usable on a daily basis. (i drive a lot thru rural TN & AP, and an AC is a necessity not a luxury) . Power steering would be good to have and I'm looking at multiple options for the same. Looking for inputs from Gypsy veterans here.

[Arsi]

Guys, which one of the two is generally better? An untouched (not re-builded) company spec (stock) gypsy or an ex-army rebuilded and reworked from scratch with all old parts replaced and engine overhauled, considering both cars have the same age of 10 years?

[Vikram Arya]

Originally Posted by Arsi

Guys, which one of the two is generally better? An untouched (not re-builded) company spec (stock) gypsy or an ex-army rebuilded and reworked from scratch with all old parts replaced and engine overhauled, considering both cars have the same age of 10 years?

An untouched stock Gypsy will almost always be a better bet as you do not know what is the quality of workmanship/parts that has gone into this army rebuild.

Secondly, a stock engine is any day better than an overhauled one. The Gyspy engine does not need any overhauling for at least 250,000 kms if maintained properly. The very fact that this army Gypsy's engine has been overhauled tells me that in all probability it might have been an abused vehicle.

There are way too many variables in this scenario to provide a straight answer without knowing many other details and even then it remains a guessing game without someone carrying out a physical inspection of the subject vehicles. You're better off taking an experienced Gyspy mechanic with you for him to have a closer look at the two vehicles.

Appearance wise the rebuilt vehicle might seem to be more attractive however there may be many hidden gremlins that are likely to surface after a few weeks/months of use.

If you have the inclination and time along with a good body/engine shop that can work on this stock vehicle then the stock Gypsy will be my pick. On the other hand, the stock Gypsy may not require much work other than engine oil/ coolant/transmission/transfer case oils change and other minor aesthetic upgrades that would entail minimal expense.

All the best!

[shankar.balan]

@Arsi:
Transmission rods might be bent. Will only be apparent when driving, on account of vibration. Only a good Gypsy mechanic will know. Not these usual MASS blokes. Most of these fellows have no clue. You say “visual inspection”. I say Pah! They know not enough, for a reliable visual inspection. For that one needs solid experience born instinct and “feel” for the soul of the machine. It is therefore, better to go to an experienced Gypsy specialist.
The holes in the middle of the hood is for the little hook that is supposed to help “lock” when the windscreen is folded down. The little hook is probably missing - this is normal in these old vehicles. And this vehicle was most probably therefore originally a soft top version where someone has put the hardtop on at a later time. Unless of course at some point in its life, its bonnet was changed.
The holes in the roof surely point to some species of light or siren - which definitely means Government vehicle.
The bracket is meant for the Jack. That’s an original fitment.

@SuzukiSan - You are 100% bang on correct in your notes. Gypsy 4WD ought not to be bashed into place while on the move. Ideally you should stop dead, then shift over to 4L and 4H. Rallyists and other motor sports guys do shift between 2H and 4H while on the move and slowly but surely ruin the 4WD transfer case. But then, their needs are different to our normal humble needs. I would still suggest you open up the 4WD box by unscrewing the gear lever and the boot and see the condition of that little washer/ silicone bush and its “O” ring.

@Arsi - In my opinion it is a no brainier. Go straight for the Stock untouched Gypsy even it is a bit battered. You can spend money on the appearance and the visual appeal and bring it back to first class stock. These engines are solid and if maintained well, hey, even now, there are privately owned 32 year old Gypsys still running around! But the Army or Govt Gypsys - well, one has no clue how horribly they may have been treated. Take my case - I had bought a battered civilian Gypsy in 2016 (2002 model). It has its issues but overall was a reasonable vehicle for such an old one. The only reason I needed to change it was on account of lack of an NOC because it was UP Registered. So I exchanged it and some moneys for this Green 2005 Ex Army Gypsy which I just bought a month ago. This has been re built but not rebuilt very well. I can clearly see and feel the difference between my old white and this new green. But then, I’m looking at it as my project vehicle and yes, I am leaking money like a sieve, in order to have it slowly fixed up and restored to stock first class. Sadly, once it is abused, it takes a lot of effort, money, time and love, to bring back to near-original. And that is something that one will do only out of passion. It is actually far more sensible to go and buy a brand new one and spend a few bucks modifying it slightly in terms of perhaps suspension and tyres etc and keep it for years.

I wish you all the best.
If you live in Bangalore? I can recommend a couple of good people whom you can go see. Real Gypsy experts. Not liars, cads and rascals like one usually encounters in the used car / restoration world.
Oh dear. I just saw your location - Srinagar. I know no one there, sadly.
But you could and should connect with some other of our colleagues on TBHP like AntiHero and Vikram Arya whose advice and inputs are always valuable. I can only help you long distance, sight unseen.

Originally Posted by Arsi

MASS guys did the inspection visually and tried to rotate the trasmission rods. However, they didn't point out any issue.

Speedo and odo were corrected right there.

No pilot lamp holes were there. However, three holes were there on the front part of the roof in the centre where the siren/ red light (laal batti) might have been. And I found two more holes in the middle of the hood. Regarding the bracket, yes. I did find a bracket on the left side of the engine under the hood. What does that suggest?



1- MASS guys told me to get the bearings changed and that it would solve all the vibration problems.

Originally Posted by suzuki san

1. This should not happen. Especially the 4WD lever vibrating. I have never heard of this issue. Something is wrong. Refer to the "fix" by Shankar Balan. What do the MASS guys say?

2. Shifting from 4H to 2H while the car is at 20-30 Kmph is NOT a good idea. The "Gypsy" does NOT have the "Shift-on-the-Fly" feature. If I remember right, as per the handbook, shifting must be done while the car is stationary and on a level platform. You could cause damage if you try to change to 4WD while on the move. However, experts please comment. I may be wrong here.
Regards,
SS

Originally Posted by Arsi

Guys, which one of the two is generally better? An untouched (not re-builded) company spec (stock) gypsy or an ex-army rebuilded and reworked from scratch with all old parts replaced and engine overhauled, considering both cars have the same age of 10 years?

[antihero]

Originally Posted by Arsi

Guys, which one of the two is generally better? An untouched (not re-builded) company spec (stock) gypsy or an ex-army rebuilded and reworked from scratch with all old parts replaced and engine overhauled, considering both cars have the same age of 10 years?

As @ShankarBalan and @VikramArya say and I concur. Get a privately owned gypsy. I know the conundrum you're in - A privately owned gypsy is hard to find. Took me an year to find one for myself and the trade off I had to make was that it was an older 410w and had a non standard hard top.
Nevertheless, the important things like the engine, drivetrain and body line were in decent order. The rest you can work on and slowly improve over time. But a rebuilt engine or drivetrain can seldom match factory tolerances and hence intended performance & reliability despite best intentions. I would not prefer a rebuild if I was thinking long term (more than a couple of years).

Also prefer one from your own state as it gets rid of RTO/NOC headache.

The good news is that there are a lot of gypsy running in Srinagar and J&K in general. I found mine in Jammu. So take your time and look around and when you find the right one pounce on it.

[suzuki san]

Hi Arsi,
I agree totally with all the points mentioned in the three posts below.
Better to get yourself a new Gypsy. Maruti are taking bookings till 31st. December after which production will stop. You can then add A.C., Power Steering etc. at a later stage.
On another note, there is a group called the "K.O.Boys" or #Koboys. Check out their FB page. This stands for "Kashmir Off Road Boys" and they are dedicated off-roaders with a lot of Gypsies and Thar's. As you are in Srinagar, you might be able to get help or even get a Gypsy from them.
Just my two cents.
Regards,
SS

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by suzuki san

Hi Arsi,
I agree totally with all the points mentioned in the three posts below.
Better to get yourself a new Gypsy. Maruti are taking bookings till 31st. December after which production will stop. You can then add A.C., Power Steering etc. at a later stage.
On another note, there is a group called the "K.O.Boys" or #Koboys. Check out their FB page. This stands for "Kashmir Off Road Boys" and they are dedicated off-roaders with a lot of Gypsies and Thar's. As you are in Srinagar, you might be able to get help or even get a Gypsy from them.
Just my two cents.
Regards,
SS

He wont do so badly getting a privately owned used Gypsy. They are usually quite good.
Not as bad as the Armed Forces Gypsys.

[suzuki san]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

He wont do so badly getting a privately owned used Gypsy. They are usually quite good.
Not as bad as the Armed Forces Gypsys.

Hi Shankar
Yes. You are right about that but finding a privately owned Gypsy in god condition is like looking for the proverbial needle in the haystack. If it is a genuine piece then the price being quoted is ridiculous!
Actually, I am surprised to see the ex Army Gypsies in such a pathetic condition. When one sees them on the road they are always gleaming and appear to be in excellent condition. Not sure what happens once they are auctioned. I was told by one of these auction dealers that the Army removes everything of value from the Gypsy (including the ECU) and then auctions it. Not sure how true this is.
Regards,
SS

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by suzuki san

Hi Shankar
Yes. You are right about that but finding a privately owned Gypsy in god condition is like looking for the proverbial needle in the haystack. If it is a genuine piece then the price being quoted is ridiculous!
Actually, I am surprised to see the ex Army Gypsies in such a pathetic condition. When one sees them on the road they are always gleaming and appear to be in excellent condition. Not sure what happens once they are auctioned. I was told by one of these auction dealers that the Army removes everything of value from the Gypsy (including the ECU) and then auctions it. Not sure how true this is.
Regards,
SS

I think the Army Gypsys are well maintained when in the Army. And they are only sold off when they reach a somewhat battered end of life stage. Sadly till they are auctioned and after they are auctioned they lie in some yard bearing the brunt of nature until some soul buys them and spends time and money to restore them.
Also unfortunately in the used car market, all these used car dealers are simply a bunch of untrustworthy blokes who just spruce up the vehicle cosmetically and polish it up and sell it. When one buys used, one had better buy with ones eyes wide open. I have owned 4 Gypsys till date. This is my 4th. All of them have been bought used. This one which I presently have needs a lot of work on it to bring it up to scratch. I ve changed all the gearbox bearings, pilot bearing and all the oils including both differentials, gearbox, transfer case and engine. Put some additives into the oils to smoothen the vehicle out. Changed all the differential and engine mounts and suspension bushes etc. Done some light engine tuning/ timing and cleaning etc so far. Changed the cooling fan as the previous one was broken. Even the headlamps were waterlogged so I ve changed those too. The Gypsy needs a lot of tinkering underneath it and thats the next thing on my agenda. And I want to change all the body bolts and body mounts etc too while I’m about it.
But then thats why I bought it. I wanted a project vehicle and am willing to spend time and effort and some money to bring it to its former glory, though slowly and over a reasonable time period.
This is not an instant fix kind of game. One needs to invest a lot of effort.
And I m not looking for a bling wagon for street cred and to show off.
I want a Gypsy just for the pleasure of owning a basic no frills beater vehicle for my primary use on weekends. But it has to be in near-top condition. I have no intention of going off road and mud sliding and rock crawling etc. Maximum, I will take it to Coorg or Ooty for a short break on one of my friend’s plantations and play with it for a bit in the mud thereabouts. No more, no less.
And the whole restoration to scratch, is an enjoyable (if somewhat masochistic) process.

[shankar.balan]

Did ~100-120 odd kms flying the old Green Spitfire this morning before breakfast along with my Dad.
All the vitamins and minerals and steroids mixed in its feed made the ride nice and fast and smooth...

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Did ~100-120 odd kms flying the old Green Spitfire this morning before breakfast along with my Dad.
All the vitamins and minerals and steroids mixed in its feed made the ride nice and fast and smooth...Attachment 1821864

Good to see that you are enjoying your ride. I have a query , how are those hella lights? Can they compliment the high beam?
I am considering buying a pair purely for the looks, the classic Hella logo is very attractive.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Good to see that you are enjoying your ride. I have a query , how are those hella lights? Can they compliment the high beam?
I am considering buying a pair purely for the looks, the classic Hella logo is very attractive.

Hi
Yes. The Headlamps are usually on low. The Hellas work well as “spot lamps”. Can be used to illuminate the road ahead nicely. I took them off from my old White Gypsy and I had used them when in Coorg last October in the rains. Very useful in misty, grey weather when in the hills and similar places. As you see, I ve also got one pair of small lamps inset in the bumper. These also serve to illuminate the immediate path ahead.
In conditions of serious mistiness, I think I ll use all three sets of lamps.
Anyway the Hellas cost about 2000-2500 odd per lamp. You can get ‘em on Amazon.

[jeeva]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Did ~100-120 odd kms flying the old Green Spitfire this morning before breakfast along with my Dad.
All the vitamins and minerals and steroids mixed in its feed made the ride nice and fast and smooth...Attachment 1821864

Hi Shankar,
That's a sweet looking Gypsy. Very subtle and clean.
I just love that British racing green'ish colour on anything, especially on cars, bikes, and English cafe themes.. I remember your Bolero too has a similar shade.