[DirtyDan]

Originally Posted by Aroy

The problem is not the vehicle but the CRDi turbo engine.

For your type of requirement a 60HP DI engine is the best bet, but they no longer make them, at least not BS-IV version.

I have a 2009 4X4 Mahindra Invader with the MDI3200TC motor and 4:88 crowns I put in. It goes up hills like a goat. I also have a 2013 Thar. It struggles to go up over a chalk line, so I know the problem. I was hoping it was resolved by now.

Well, I was trying to decide whether to upgrade my Invader or sell it. Looks like there is an upgrade in my future. Going to paint it and install PS and a heater. It gets cold and snowy up here in the winter. I am also still waiting for definitive news on the Gurkha engine situation....just getting accurate information in India is a major task, let alone fixing/modifying.

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

Isuzu does not even have a dealer in all of Himachal Pradesh as of this writing, else I would consider a V-cross.

I remember seeing at least 2 Isuzu showrooms before Shimla. And saw quite a few HP registered VCross in Spiti earlier this year. So am thinking, they maybe coming up soon. As of now I guess you would have to deal with any of the PB dealers in case you really want to get VCross. But it's a one time pain.

[1100D]

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

But I am wondering if it will get up REAL hills, e.g. Rohtang Pass and the deep Himalayas. Acceptable performance to me means going up Rohtang in second gear and higher. Previous posts by 4x4addict and Ringo have turned me off from the Scorpio.

Still in the back of my mind is the fact that, in almost every mild public off road excursion, Scorpio 4X4 systems fail to work or break. What's up with that?

I know, some people might have their mind setup against the Scorpio, for reasons unknown.

However, I do have an example with me, with its ODO sitting right now at 168000kms and it runs without any loss of power. I reside in Calcutta and have had multiple trips from here to Ladakh, Spiti, Arunachal covering even places like Marsimik-La, PenziLa, desert road from Chusul to Hanle (let alone basic stuff like KhardungLa or Rohtang that you mention). More than all that, it has been to Sandakphu (one of the prolonged steepest climbs in India) multiple times without sweat and that too at a time the roads weren't even partially concretized.

We also do offroading events almost every month end and although the obstacles there are hardly extreme, but they cannot also be termed mild.

You can see the complete ownership journey here:-


https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-v...kh-kms-up.html (Marengo: Rocky Beige Mahindra Scorpio mHawk 4WD & MLD. 4 years & 1 lakh kms up!)

There is no reason a properly maintained Scorpio (by proper maintenance, I dont mean anything more than scheduled maintenance) shouldn't be able to serve you well. However, the workshop support staff sometimes tend to take owners for a ride. But as long as you keep your technical and logical reasoning up and keep the management involved, they soon learn not to fleece you.

I love my Scorpio more now, than I did before. Earlier this year, I could take an impromptu trip to Arunachal Pradesh, to interiors of Tawang without any vehicle preparation at all and the vehicle just came back from there without a hiccup, given the horrible roads it endured.

[Sheel]

You know what, I too am surprised that my new gen Scorpio 4X4 with over 50,000 kms on the odo still runs like new and there are no rattles squeaks despite it being subjected to harsh terrain.

I drive a 2WD VLX as well and that has done 1.25L kms and apart from scheduled maintenance, it hasn't asked for much. It rattles a bit [doors] but a visit to a workshop should take care of things.

Going by my experience, I honestly think [apart from maybe being better off-road] the new iteration betters the previous gen.

[roy_libran]

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

But I am wondering if it will get up REAL hills, e.g. Rohtang Pass and the deep Himalayas. Acceptable performance to me means going up Rohtang in second gear and higher

Specifically replying - Yes it would, mostly in second and third. We did it during rains last August, with my family, both going towards Keylong and coming back. As you know, the return section of the pass from Keylong side, hardly has any metalled roads, and it was mostly slush and gravel. I had it on 4wd H, to avoid slips, and I also took some of the steep short cuts.

In Keylong, we also drove up the very narrow dirt trail up to Shashur monastery, again in rains, and the Scorpio managed just fine, although almost all the hairpins were 3 point turns.

Despite this, I would ask you to think twice or thrice before buying the Scorpio 4wd. Personally, I find it's road manners, handling and braking very scary. It is also very uncomfortable mainly for the rear seat passengers, due to excessive body roll and very low spring damping rates.

Some pics of both vehicle and conditions. I don't have pics of the climb to Rohtang from Keylong, since it was raining heavily and I was concentrating on getting my family back to Manali before nightfall-

[BlackPearl]

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

I have a 2009 4X4 Mahindra Invader with the MDI3200TC motor and 4:88 crowns I put in. It goes up hills like a goat. I also have a 2013 Thar. It struggles to go up over a chalk line, so I know the problem. I was hoping it was resolved by now.

Compared to my Di Bolero, the Thar struggles a lot more in the steep inclines in 2WD.

I think the gear ratio and low end tuning of the engine in Scorpio is better than that of the Thar. I have not driven the Scorpio much, but whatever little I have driven, it feels more responsive than the Thar and pulls better in inclines in 2nd gear. But I still don't like the ride quality in the new Scorpio.

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

Well, I was trying to decide whether to upgrade my Invader or sell it.

Please upgrade and post the thread on team-bhp

[Sheel]

^But then we do not have an option in 15L price bracket, do we?

What about my original query, regarding the approach angle.

[BlackPearl]

Originally Posted by Sheel

^But then we do not have an option in 15L price bracket, do we?

No, there is no other practical vehicle that is this robust in the 15L bracket. Two other options are Isuzu V-Cross and Tata Xenon. The V-Cross has too much of rear overhang and is not practical in city. The Xenon has a lot going in favour, specially at 11 lacs on road it has got a 150 Bhp engine, ABS, Airbags and rear LSD. The low mounted intercooler is the only disadvantage that I can think of. Team bhpian SenHero has recently got a black Xenon and it looks stunning on road. He is an avid off-roader, so we will get to know how good it is holding up after all the frequent off-roading he does.

[4x4addict]

@DirtyDan As long as you don't plan to go boulder bashing, I would suggest looking at the 4WD Duster. Don't write it off thinking it is a soft roader. I have one now and I can tell you it will go anywere a Scorpio 4WD will go and sometimes further too.

Secondly it strikes an excellent balance between ride and handling.

The 4WD Duster has a completely different gearbox from the 2WD with much shorter gears and also the final drive is 4.88 for the 4WD as opposed to 4.2x something for the 2WD.

Due to the low gearing and different engine remap, on straights you can take off in second. 1st is required only when taking of on inclines after complete stop.

Besides with the Traction Control and ESP, it is sufficient if any one wheel has traction and it will climb it's way out.

[1100D]

Originally Posted by Sheel

What about my original query, regarding the approach angle.

If you get it nowhere or from no one, see if you can derive it from this image

[Sheel]

^ I wish to know of both, the old gen and the new gen.

[starter]

Originally Posted by BlackPearl

Compared to my Di Bolero, the Thar struggles a lot more in the steep inclines in 2WD.

Any experience from any BHPians on the new Thar powered by the M2DiCr engine?
Is it as good as the old Di Turbo or has it gone worse?

[BlackPearl]

Originally Posted by starter

Any experience from any BHPians on the new Thar powered by the M2DiCr engine?
Is it as good as the old Di Turbo or has it gone worse?

The M2DiCr engine on the Bolero is almost at par with the Di in terms of performance. In fact it has more torque (190 Nm) compared to the Di engine (182 Nm). So the Thar which is quite a bit lighter than the Bolero should perform well with the M2DiCr engine.

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by starter

Any experience from any BHPians on the new Thar powered by the M2DiCr engine?
Is it as good as the old Di Turbo or has it gone worse?

Originally Posted by BlackPearl

The M2DiCr engine on the Bolero is almost at par with the Di in terms of performance. In fact it has more torque (190 Nm) compared to the Di engine (182 Nm). So the Thar which is quite a bit lighter than the Bolero should perform well with the M2DiCr engine.

OT:
Seems the DI is now available in BS-IV, earlier it was BS-III only IIRC. But with just 60 ps power, is it enough for the steeper hills or serious trails?

[BlackPearl]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

OT:
Seems the DI is now available in BS-IV, earlier it was BS-III only IIRC. But with just 60 ps power, is it enough for the steeper hills or serious trails?

Even my Bolero Di has 63 bhp, but it has never failed to do any obstacle or not able to reach a place that other vehicles have done. The torque is adequate though the outright power is low.

Two videos of my Bolero -

https://youtu.be/2M55t4vmOiI

https://youtu.be/OQY0nI4LKX0

Let's go back to Scorpio 4WD discussion before it goes off-topic.