Resurrection: A CJ3B STORY

Torque-ative · 22nd August 2009, 00:37

My next jeep you say Harjeev ?? Will have to be a CJ3A,...Gotta have one of those Low Bonnets for the wife,..and then we go wadi bashing together.

Quote:

Originally Posted by harjeev

Naveen buddy, you don't have to thank me!!! It always was and will always be a pleasure. Infact I learnt loads while I was with you buying the jeep as you know that I don't need a reason to go to Mayapuri!!!
Thankyou for putting your trust into me!!! I really appreciate it!!! Looking forward to learn lots more during the restoration of your baby!!!

Infact I am eagerly waiting for your call so that we guys can again go to Mayapuri for buying your second jeep!!!!

I completely agree that as the engine is seized and the vehicle is parked for a long time only a complete rebuild is advisable. And the best part is that in petrols it doesn't cost much to rebuild the engine and do the mechanical work especially when compared to diesels. So don't worry about it and enjoy the restoration. Its the most exciting and a little tiring time in the ownership period.
And again I would like to mention and thank Mandeep.

If it wasn't for him I myself would have never picked up the two CJ3B's that I have in my stable!!!
I think the credit goes to him for popularizing the Hurricane culture in NIOC
I owe you one buddy, BIG TIME!!!

ex670c · 22nd August 2009, 11:33

Hi Naveen,

A very nice (testing) JEEP to start JEEPing with.

But with all the information and guys around, you will get her up and ready in no time.

Regards,

Arka

diesel_maniac · 22nd August 2009, 21:48

The Hurricane motor has been taken apart piece by piece. We had to work hard to get the third and fourth piston out of the cylinder due to extensive rusting. Fourth Exhaust valve was also badly stuck and had to be literally beaten out of the valve guide. The engine currently had Standard sized pistons and First oversize Mains and Bigens. Due to the damage to the fourth cylinder wall, it has been decided to sleeve the engine and install Standard size pistons. The main bearings and bigens would be upgraded to second oversize.

All the Valves would be replaced along with Cam shaft bushes. We also need to replace one of the timing gears (The large one in the following pictures), as some of the teethes are damaged. So now I will be scouting for the parts needed and work will commence on the engine. In the meanwhile we plan to get some of other mechanicals sorted out. Hopefully we will start with the front end of the vehicle, where the front suspension, wheel and steering assemblies, brakes etc would be taken care of.

I have clicked a few pictures of various engine parts after dismantling the engine. Starting here with Spark plugs that came of the Hurricane Motor (Looks like an example of `Unity in diversity’, none of them matches the other but they ended up on the same engine). Second picture has the crankshaft, followed by the Oil pump, Pistons with connecting rods, engine valves and springs. Next is overhead tappet assembly along with push rods. Then is the timing cover which contains an assortment of nuts, bolts and a timing gear. After that you can see the engine mount plate and the Cam shaft in the following picture. Also have a picture of some of the parts put together. Finally a picture of the youngest Jeeper in our group. Yes, that is Naveen’s son `Aaron' sitting in the driver’s seat, Looks like a serious potential client for me….

Torque-ative · 23rd August 2009, 09:52

I like your style Javinder ! Direct and to the point. I am going take print out and create a scrap book with notes,..wow I never thought this would be like birthing !! Now I have two babies to worry about

Aaron was at his first OTR at age 2. He has a scale model of the CL340 and a MM540 (centy) and ensures every night is a obstacle course of wadis (pillows) and the lions back (my thigh and knee)

diesel_maniac · 23rd August 2009, 22:37

@ Everyone who has responded to the thread so far : Thanks everyone for your wishes, encouragement and support.

@ Harjeev: You are right. Mandeep has always voiced his concern about CJ3B's being cut down to build those cheap looking Low bonnet replicas available everywhere. He has always been suggesting people to buy and restore a CJ3B. Even though he had to face flak from some of the senior members in NCR jeeping community for doing so. He is the one who has rekindled the love for these petrol powered agile beast in many Jeepers in and around NCR region. He sure does deserve appreciation for the way he has been helping newbies like us in choosing and buying the right Vehicle. Above all for being there to guide everyone during the rebuilding process.

Three cheers for him !!

U.B.Singh · 24th August 2009, 01:12

Hello Jasvinder,
that is one of the most complete CJ3Bs (body wise) from the Army disposal.
I must congratulate Naveen, Harjeev, Mandeep and yourself on getting this jeep for restoration.
I see that the rear grab handles do not match with the jeeps that I have seen and rebuilt (dating late 80s). Other small missing body parts are the map reading light, one hinge at the tail gate, the driver's side looking glass stand, the missing engine bay light, the rear reflector, The rear stay brackets for the hood pipe set and of course removal of the baby seat between the front seats.

The under carriage is perfect, just needs a skid plate and I hope the engine stay cable is there.

If I were to suggest a few things about the rebuild, they are as follows:

1. Do not open up the spring packs, just clean and re fit after changing the bushes.

2. Do not re sleeve the engine, if you could bore to a higher size, it makes more sense. An original bore has far more advantages, as compared to a sleeved cylinder, which tends to over heat.

3. From the size of the bigend bearings, it appears to be standard and good.

4. The main bearings need not be changed, or crank cut down. A good and patient job or resetting the mains will not only safe money, but the crank too.

5. If the engine mechanic can reset the existing bigends(provided there is not much of tolerance), please do not send the crank for an under size grind. Special brass sheets are available for such settings.

6. Maintain the original brake master cylinder and the drums, do not unnecessarily upgrade to tandem type and 11 inches.

7. These models came with 9 springs pressure plate and larger dia clutch plates(common with B 275 diesel). Excellent for off road capabilities. Notice an extra quarter inch half round hump under side the bell housing to make room for the larger pressure plate. If that is not there change the bell housing, but 9 inch clutch cover assy. is a must.

8. Last but not the least so far, try and not disturb most of the original fitments in the machine. Very slightly worn out original parts are still better than brand new replacements. Use the same fuel pump and just add a heat shield from the exhaust manifold as they came in the late models

The missing lever from the transfercase suggests if a single lever came in the late models???

Wish you all the best in rebuilding this excellent jeep,
yours.................................... UBS (kaka)

diesel_maniac · 24th August 2009, 09:40

Namaskar Kaka (UBS),

Thanks for the wonderful insight about finner details about the 3B. I would make sure that we able to incorporate your observation before we move ahead. The decision about sleeving the engine has been taken due to severe rust damage to the fourth cylinder. We originally wanted to use second oversize pistons for the build, but the engine boring guy told us otherwise after taking the measurements. I will see if anything else can be worked out, like getting to the third oversize.

About the Mains and Bigends, they were checked to be of first oversize. Thats why we were opting to go one size up. Will check with him again and give you a call to discuss about it.

As for the body and body fitting on this Jeep. The body tub has been worked upon extensively. It has been dented upon and seen some ingenious
additions or removals from the original list of equipment. You very well know what kind of soup this jeep could have landed. Since you are there to guide us, I am very relieved and hope to get Jeep into even better shape.

regards

DHABHAR.BEHRAM · 24th August 2009, 15:37

Dear Diesel Maniac - with Mr.Udaybhan Singh (Kaka to all of us), advising you, you cannot falter. I met him 15 dsys back in Kolkata and believe you me, he has an outstanding collection. Hats off to him.

By the way, please rethread the spark plug holes and install new spark plugs.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

desertfox · 24th August 2009, 18:28

Compared to what comes off from army auction stuff at mayapuri, this is a quite complete Cj3B I must say. To make it OTR worthy, it needs a complete overhaul of Engine, Body, Denting, Paint work, Suspension, radiator repair, carburettor cleaning and resetting, plug points, new plugs, new fluids, new electrical wiring, fuel tank replacement, canvas hood, seat repair.

For how much was this purchased please ?

Torque-ative · 24th August 2009, 23:09

Oh my Gawd !! UBS posting on my thread is such an honor. It is so reassuring to know that you are there to ensure we bring this back to its glory which it rightly deserves. Like Behram ji pointed out with legends like him overseeing us we dare not sc#@w it up !

@desertfox with regards to the price I would be more confortable getting into those details once the job is done till then its just a tab

Torque-ative · 25th August 2009, 12:36

Jasvinder and I had a lengthly discussion this morning, after Jasvinder had spoken with UBS over his suggestions posted on the thread.

We have on his advise decided not to re-sleave but instead bore out and use oversized pistons (#3). My primary concern was on UBS's comments on engine overheating. At OTRs a jeep is pushed like it probably never had and Considering we would be replacing the original metal with a substitute this point rang a strong bell.

Hence, we probably will not have a larger block (after boring) and as a result more bhp

Jasvinder,..egarly await your updates !!

Ym-enjn · 25th August 2009, 14:58

Congrats Naveen and Jasvinder. Another one of the lucky Jeeps to have fallen in right hands and right group. The jeeps is going to be very happy.

Torque-ative · 26th August 2009, 07:17

Ops sorry for the typo !! I meant as a result of boring out to the max we would actually be increasing the cubic capacity of the block and hence more bhp !! It would compromise the already low FE but then its not my daily drive anyway. I've been told to expect around 7kmpl on highway drives and around 4kmpl during full blow throttle inputs (yeah baby!! old school big block carb engines)

diesel_maniac · 3rd September 2009, 23:01

As per our last plan we were trying to retain the original cylinder bores by using oversized pistons. We found out even after boring out the cylinder no. 4 to +0.050 size dimensions we were not able to clear all the pitting and rust ( You can clearly see it in the form of ring shape in the cylinder bore in the following pictures). So we have finally sleeved the engine block and going to use Standard Size pistons for the engine rebuild. I will be picking up the engine block and rest of the stuff from the machine shop tomorrow. We are hoping to put together the engine this weekend.
The Jeep also has been stripped down. De-denting work on the body began in the morning today. I have clicked a few pictures of the work going on. These show one side of the body tub after being cleared of existing coats of body filler etc. Most of the dents on the left side of the tub have been beaten out to regain the original shape.

JeepMkd · 4th September 2009, 01:04

Looks like an extensive and step by step work, so that's good.

I wonder if new parts are available for the Hurricane engine (valves, pistons, gaskets)? By new I mean brand new, off the shelve, never used.

22nd August 2009, 11:33	#17
ex670c Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Chennai Posts: 2,470 Thanked: 1,939 Times View My Garage	Congratulations Hi Naveen, A very nice (testing) JEEP to start JEEPing with. But with all the information and guys around, you will get her up and ready in no time. Regards, Arka
	() Thanks

22nd August 2009, 21:48	#18
diesel_maniac BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Delhi Posts: 170 Thanked: 3 Times	Resurrection :Update 2 The Hurricane motor has been taken apart piece by piece. We had to work hard to get the third and fourth piston out of the cylinder due to extensive rusting. Fourth Exhaust valve was also badly stuck and had to be literally beaten out of the valve guide. The engine currently had Standard sized pistons and First oversize Mains and Bigens. Due to the damage to the fourth cylinder wall, it has been decided to sleeve the engine and install Standard size pistons. The main bearings and bigens would be upgraded to second oversize. All the Valves would be replaced along with Cam shaft bushes. We also need to replace one of the timing gears (The large one in the following pictures), as some of the teethes are damaged. So now I will be scouting for the parts needed and work will commence on the engine. In the meanwhile we plan to get some of other mechanicals sorted out. Hopefully we will start with the front end of the vehicle, where the front suspension, wheel and steering assemblies, brakes etc would be taken care of. I have clicked a few pictures of various engine parts after dismantling the engine. Starting here with Spark plugs that came of the Hurricane Motor (Looks like an example of `Unity in diversity’, none of them matches the other but they ended up on the same engine). Second picture has the crankshaft, followed by the Oil pump, Pistons with connecting rods, engine valves and springs. Next is overhead tappet assembly along with push rods. Then is the timing cover which contains an assortment of nuts, bolts and a timing gear. After that you can see the engine mount plate and the Cam shaft in the following picture. Also have a picture of some of the parts put together. Finally a picture of the youngest Jeeper in our group. Yes, that is Naveen’s son `Aaron' sitting in the driver’s seat, Looks like a serious potential client for me…. Attached Thumbnails
	() Thanks

23rd August 2009, 09:52	#19
Torque-ative BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Jakarta Posts: 500 Thanked: 89 Times	I like your style Javinder ! Direct and to the point. I am going take print out and create a scrap book with notes,..wow I never thought this would be like birthing !! Now I have two babies to worry about Aaron was at his first OTR at age 2. He has a scale model of the CL340 and a MM540 (centy) and ensures every night is a obstacle course of wadis (pillows) and the lions back (my thigh and knee)
	() Thanks

23rd August 2009, 22:37	#20
diesel_maniac BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Delhi Posts: 170 Thanked: 3 Times	@ Everyone who has responded to the thread so far : Thanks everyone for your wishes, encouragement and support. @ Harjeev: You are right. Mandeep has always voiced his concern about CJ3B's being cut down to build those cheap looking Low bonnet replicas available everywhere. He has always been suggesting people to buy and restore a CJ3B. Even though he had to face flak from some of the senior members in NCR jeeping community for doing so. He is the one who has rekindled the love for these petrol powered agile beast in many Jeepers in and around NCR region. He sure does deserve appreciation for the way he has been helping newbies like us in choosing and buying the right Vehicle. Above all for being there to guide everyone during the rebuilding process. Three cheers for him !!
	() Thanks

24th August 2009, 01:12	#21
U.B.Singh BHPian Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: 266/D G.T.Road(N), Liluah, Howrah. W.B. Posts: 43 Thanked: 17 Times	Hello Jasvinder, that is one of the most complete CJ3Bs (body wise) from the Army disposal. I must congratulate Naveen, Harjeev, Mandeep and yourself on getting this jeep for restoration. I see that the rear grab handles do not match with the jeeps that I have seen and rebuilt (dating late 80s). Other small missing body parts are the map reading light, one hinge at the tail gate, the driver's side looking glass stand, the missing engine bay light, the rear reflector, The rear stay brackets for the hood pipe set and of course removal of the baby seat between the front seats. The under carriage is perfect, just needs a skid plate and I hope the engine stay cable is there. If I were to suggest a few things about the rebuild, they are as follows: 1. Do not open up the spring packs, just clean and re fit after changing the bushes. 2. Do not re sleeve the engine, if you could bore to a higher size, it makes more sense. An original bore has far more advantages, as compared to a sleeved cylinder, which tends to over heat. 3. From the size of the bigend bearings, it appears to be standard and good. 4. The main bearings need not be changed, or crank cut down. A good and patient job or resetting the mains will not only safe money, but the crank too. 5. If the engine mechanic can reset the existing bigends(provided there is not much of tolerance), please do not send the crank for an under size grind. Special brass sheets are available for such settings. 6. Maintain the original brake master cylinder and the drums, do not unnecessarily upgrade to tandem type and 11 inches. 7. These models came with 9 springs pressure plate and larger dia clutch plates(common with B 275 diesel). Excellent for off road capabilities. Notice an extra quarter inch half round hump under side the bell housing to make room for the larger pressure plate. If that is not there change the bell housing, but 9 inch clutch cover assy. is a must. 8. Last but not the least so far, try and not disturb most of the original fitments in the machine. Very slightly worn out original parts are still better than brand new replacements. Use the same fuel pump and just add a heat shield from the exhaust manifold as they came in the late models The missing lever from the transfercase suggests if a single lever came in the late models??? Wish you all the best in rebuilding this excellent jeep, yours.................................... UBS (kaka)
	() Thanks

24th August 2009, 09:40	#22
diesel_maniac BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Delhi Posts: 170 Thanked: 3 Times	Namaskar Kaka (UBS), Thanks for the wonderful insight about finner details about the 3B. I would make sure that we able to incorporate your observation before we move ahead. The decision about sleeving the engine has been taken due to severe rust damage to the fourth cylinder. We originally wanted to use second oversize pistons for the build, but the engine boring guy told us otherwise after taking the measurements. I will see if anything else can be worked out, like getting to the third oversize. About the Mains and Bigends, they were checked to be of first oversize. Thats why we were opting to go one size up. Will check with him again and give you a call to discuss about it. As for the body and body fitting on this Jeep. The body tub has been worked upon extensively. It has been dented upon and seen some ingenious additions or removals from the original list of equipment. You very well know what kind of soup this jeep could have landed. Since you are there to guide us, I am very relieved and hope to get Jeep into even better shape. regards
	() Thanks

24th August 2009, 15:37	#23
DHABHAR.BEHRAM Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: MUMBAI Posts: 3,060 Thanked: 5,353 Times	Dear Diesel Maniac - with Mr.Udaybhan Singh (Kaka to all of us), advising you, you cannot falter. I met him 15 dsys back in Kolkata and believe you me, he has an outstanding collection. Hats off to him. By the way, please rethread the spark plug holes and install new spark plugs. Best regards, Behram Dhabhar
	() Thanks

24th August 2009, 18:28	#24
desertfox Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Gurgaon, Delhi NCR Posts: 1,270 Thanked: 648 Times	Compared to what comes off from army auction stuff at mayapuri, this is a quite complete Cj3B I must say. To make it OTR worthy, it needs a complete overhaul of Engine, Body, Denting, Paint work, Suspension, radiator repair, carburettor cleaning and resetting, plug points, new plugs, new fluids, new electrical wiring, fuel tank replacement, canvas hood, seat repair. For how much was this purchased please ?
	() Thanks

24th August 2009, 23:09	#25
Torque-ative BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Jakarta Posts: 500 Thanked: 89 Times	Oh my Gawd !! UBS posting on my thread is such an honor. It is so reassuring to know that you are there to ensure we bring this back to its glory which it rightly deserves. Like Behram ji pointed out with legends like him overseeing us we dare not sc#@w it up ! @desertfox with regards to the price I would be more confortable getting into those details once the job is done till then its just a tab
	() Thanks

25th August 2009, 12:36	#26
Torque-ative BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Jakarta Posts: 500 Thanked: 89 Times	Jasvinder and I had a lengthly discussion this morning, after Jasvinder had spoken with UBS over his suggestions posted on the thread. We have on his advise decided not to re-sleave but instead bore out and use oversized pistons (#3). My primary concern was on UBS's comments on engine overheating. At OTRs a jeep is pushed like it probably never had and Considering we would be replacing the original metal with a substitute this point rang a strong bell. Hence, we probably will not have a larger block (after boring) and as a result more bhp Jasvinder,..egarly await your updates !!
	() Thanks

25th August 2009, 14:58	#27
Ym-enjn Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Jaipur Posts: 1,039 Thanked: 59 Times	Congrats Naveen and Jasvinder. Another one of the lucky Jeeps to have fallen in right hands and right group. The jeeps is going to be very happy.
	() Thanks

26th August 2009, 07:17	#28
Torque-ative BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Jakarta Posts: 500 Thanked: 89 Times	Ops sorry for the typo !! I meant as a result of boring out to the max we would actually be increasing the cubic capacity of the block and hence more bhp !! It would compromise the already low FE but then its not my daily drive anyway. I've been told to expect around 7kmpl on highway drives and around 4kmpl during full blow throttle inputs (yeah baby!! old school big block carb engines)
	() Thanks

3rd September 2009, 23:01	#29
diesel_maniac BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Delhi Posts: 170 Thanked: 3 Times	Resurrection: Update 3 As per our last plan we were trying to retain the original cylinder bores by using oversized pistons. We found out even after boring out the cylinder no. 4 to +0.050 size dimensions we were not able to clear all the pitting and rust ( You can clearly see it in the form of ring shape in the cylinder bore in the following pictures). So we have finally sleeved the engine block and going to use Standard Size pistons for the engine rebuild. I will be picking up the engine block and rest of the stuff from the machine shop tomorrow. We are hoping to put together the engine this weekend. The Jeep also has been stripped down. De-denting work on the body began in the morning today. I have clicked a few pictures of the work going on. These show one side of the body tub after being cleared of existing coats of body filler etc. Most of the dents on the left side of the tub have been beaten out to regain the original shape. Attached Thumbnails
	() Thanks

4th September 2009, 01:04	#30
JeepMkd BHPian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Republic of MACEDONIA Posts: 86 Thanked: 3 Times	Looks like an extensive and step by step work, so that's good. I wonder if new parts are available for the Hurricane engine (valves, pistons, gaskets)? By new I mean brand new, off the shelve, never used.
	() Thanks